No class should be balanced around one AA

Zaela said:
The HP part of the DoT weaking calc caps at 75000. Pretty much a guaranteed 10% NPC damage reduction at high tiers. Score one for retarded assumptions.

I'm curious how you could say that I'm gutting your class and that the tome only helped for two (2) fights in the same breath.
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Well as far as anyone knew there was no cap or functionally so. And that comment wasn't directed at you. Though I suppose you could say it was directed at YOU!.

I didn't respond mostly because I decided we would get the crap nerfed out of us and end up down 2/3s of our dps. A slow slide into senility being better then instant supercession.

I'll think about what you posted over the next day. One thing is we hardly use lifetap or runic 2 on fights, except for burst phases. Lifetapping interrupts dot application and runic 2 is not sustainable.

Runic 2 is basically a solo quest convenience, the only fight that it can be used the whole fight is NZ since I'm an away target and I'm oom at the end even with her mad mana regen. I am also more focused on survival then dps in the position anyway since I'm out of gheal range.

Really, I never used the relics much in lower tiers. I kept mine up but nothing was keeping up the pet, and I just used it for burst or if nothing else but it and archaic would land. And then the cost was always omfg.

Anyway, I'll get back to you, and I'll try to talk to glorax as well. Sorry for snapping at you.

(Agree with Slaariel on COB, it is artificial and either ends up with the fight being balanced around it, or cheesing bad attempts. )
 
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The opinion you've all been waiting for:

Hello champions, friends -

I am the King-Shit, #1.

I believe removing festering curse and buffing all dots across the board is acceptable.

I don't like the runic 2 (lifetap overtime for caster/pet) - The mana cost is too high to use in most situations and I generally don't care that much if my pet lives or dies. Also the stacking issue with multiple necros is very bad.

I would like to see the runic 2 spell changed to a new pet. It can do flying kicks or anything to make its dps comparable to mages (40k DB wtf?). I think leeching servant should be a passive pet ability where the pet can lifetap without me having to cast the spell for him to have a chance to.

I didn't like most of the utility ideas others have posted because I mainly want to do reliable dps in both group and raid settings. Healing someone negligible amounts or providing other non-essential utility isn't a priority. Strands of Life was pretty decent for a utility tome and it should be changed back to how it was before.

Oh now necros have basically no AE ability except for a single spell that takes too long to do damage, so please weigh that in when balancing other dps areas, or better yet change the runic 1 completely too.

Thank you, I love you all.

Regards,


Glorax Mario Syphilmydius
 
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Gloraxyourfaceoff said:
(40k DB wtf?)
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?

I'd like to reiterate that if Festering Curse hasn't taught us that making DPS significantly dependent on active AAs with minutes- or hours-long reuse is a bad idea I don't know what will. So I'm still weary about making it anything that will asymmetrically increase Necro effectiveness depending on the number of targets and/or length of a fight etc etc. Also I'm more interested in making it something useful for fresh 65 and low tier raid/exp group Necroing than ensuring that it's just as vital to tier 15 (or whatever we're at) Necros as Festering Curse is now. Like most of the other active AAs.
 
I agree with glorax except the pet for runic 2. I think we could get both it and runic 1 changed into efficient solid damage 8-9 tick dots with a -50 + resist adjust. You may have noticed that necs dont take pets seriously, and the part Mario likes is it's mana free.

If our spells allowed us to do reliable sustained dps a full fight for some reasonable $VALUE, I doubt he would much care about a pet. Though I'm not seriously against it, I just don't think we are psychologically a pet class any more. For example, pet tomes are dps neutral, and I never mentioned it because the pet flipping to cast was kind of cute when pets did that. Charm pets casting LT is a definite dps minus and pretty funny.

If you want to give lowbies something for the AA, and you are still interested in healing, What about making it an group buff which allows
members to proc aoe heals off offensive casts, changing Insidious Infection to become a modifier.

It could be something like instant cast, 2 min duration, 4 minute cooldown with a chance to proc 150 base heal off say 2.2% per 100* mana from offensive casts. Insidious infection could scale it to say a 400 base. Druids and clerics would probably love it because their critical heal mechanic might have some synergy with it? Also, 2 necros in group could keep it up full time, giving group utility, and maybe raid since we don't stack very well.

It must sound strange to find out that the undead guys just want to drive a volvo, but really we just want reliable sustained dps that puts us in 5% of the other casters most fights. And a chance to win on bosses with massive health(tm). Right now our biggest dps upgrade from ikisith spells is scent of the murk and we wouldn't mind having something else good as well.



* This is of course off a bracer that you made that I like and real numbers could vary.
(?) idk about the heal crit thing or how it works here.
 
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I dunno Vell, I'm totally uninterested in any sort of healing buffs or abilities. Valdian was offered some half-assed healing pet. He shot it down and now he has a pet that does FORTY THOUSAND POINTS of damage, even if the actual number is 24k.

I mentioned flying kicks on a necro pet because in eq, necros never developed this "Hey, look I'm no longer a pet class anymore" mindset.

Also - I don't agree that AAs are just for noobs. One example: shamans basically never graduate from the practice of using canni every two minutes.


bottom line: dps needs improvement all around, with a possible option for AE dps. This can be improved at all tiers if we are inclined to do so. If it is done by AAs, or spells, or tomes - any or all options are fine as long necros aren't left in the dust. Historically, necros sacrificed all burst and AE dps for sustained dps. Now they excel at nothing.
 
Gloraxyourfaceoff said:
now he has a pet that does FORTY THOUSAND POINTS of damage, even if the actual number is 24k.
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This turned out to be bullshit*, the actual number is 12k, on a crit. But that's basically 40k, right? Not pulling a number out of my ass based on something I've never even witnessed or anything.

*edit: unless the other devs who were doing the investigating were missing something or deceiving me.
 
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I can confidently say i've never seen a mage DB hit for >20k, but I dont know, maybe its possible somehow.

yes, necros should be buffed and they most likely will be. constructive suggestions would probably be the best course of action at this point
 
I havent played this game regularly in months. I must have confused the exorbidant # of hitpoints mage pets used to have (40,000) with the amount of damage their DBs do. Clearly I am a liar and a terrible person. You should neglect balancing a game that hundreds of people play because of your own emotional reaction to misinformation from a player who is more or less retired.

Sorry Velleity, I tried.
 
I agree with Glorax (#83) except: replace Runic 2 with something else (possibly the archer swarm pets- though I still do not know if they exist in SoD- or some aoe/dd options) and give the Relic pet Flying Kick to close the frog gap.

An idea for a FC replacement that would actually get used and does something with dots:

Fever Pitch
5 cast time
1 min CD
unresistable
Consumer all dots [exclude splurt] on the target doing all remaining damage instantly. Can crit.

This makes dots more group friendly AND fixes that awful moment when your dots fade at <XX% and you know you're about to cast a load of laughably inefficient damage
Somebody is going to laugh at what an amazingly OP idea Fever Pitch is. Why? Mana efficiency is supposedly a big selling point of dot > DD spells, but for most dots it takes losing ONE TICK to basically close that efficiency edge. Or maybe it is because suddenly disease dots have a purpose outside raids....

Now I will plug my tired whines for fixing inconveniences and useless garbage:
Lichstorm, seriously, a long CD upgrade to a good spell.
Why does the 'Word of' line end for Necros? Asking to aoe not even as well as a cleric is a pretty sad request but it'd be better than nothing.
Why didn't Lich duration change with PL fix?
 
Replace insidious infection with

Gradalsh's Edict I
------------------------
*Disease based spells cast be the necromancer have their base damage doubled.
*Disease's cast be the necro have a 8% chance of spreading to hostile NPC's within melee range of the diseased target.
*Disease's cast by the necro have a 4% chance of spreading to friendly PC's within melee range of the diseased target.

For each subsequent tome, increase the percents of infection, scaling upward, for both.

-pazms
 
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Explosive Exsanguination (aka BLOOD BOMB)
Nature: Active
Cast: Quick
Recast: Short

Activate to expunge any dot from the necro fire line currently on a mob doing a fire DD to the target (DD amount dictated by level of fire dot) and spreading the next weakest spell from the line to 2(?) adjacent mobs. Recast time would be like 20 seconds.

So for example using it on a mob with Marlow's cremation on it would do a DD to the mob and spread Funeral Pyre to up to 2 near mobs. Using it on one of the Pyre'd ones would spread Pyrocruor to 2, so on and so forth.

OR(Simpler version)

Activate to expunge any dot from the necro fire line currently on a mob doing a PBAE DD centered around the dotted mob, the damage would either be a flat value dictated just by spell level or a value that scaled with remaining ticks + spell level.
 
Melodico said:
Replace insidious infection with

Gradalsh's Edict I
------------------------
*Disease based spells cast be the necromancer have their base damage doubled.
*Disease's cast be the necro have a 8% chance of spreading to hostile NPC's within melee range of the diseased target.
*Disease's cast by the necro have a 4% chance of spreading to friendly PC's within melee range of the diseased target.

For each subsequent tome, increase the percents of infection, scaling upward, for both.

-pazms
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This would result in necromancers never being allowed to use a disease spell again in any party. Beyond overwriting buffs, we are already taking 1400 - 2k + damage every 3 seconds adding another 678-1300+ damage to PCs every 6 is not going to be allowed to happen by any RL.

On Gerick's suggestion, that would help for groups but I would hope that its implementation would not be expected to solve us in raids. We don't have a critical mechanic to make it of any use there, and it would just interfere with dot application.

As I see it the issue in raids is, we can't use our dot stack mechanic to full potential because of mana cost and recast time. Fixing raid mana regen/cost to allow us to cast all raid long with changes to duration should be looked at first, then any adjustments to base value looked after as a tuning. The runics could also be changed to high duration dots on a long timer, which stack with other necros, to complement scitterpox as a "I run it on back ground dot" during raids providing a stable, predictable base during boss events.

If one of the runics became a pet which did a higher predictable value of mana free dps then the current pet, that would be fine too since it would save a spell rotation cast and might make the duration tuning easier and mana cost/regen adjustment smaller.
 
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while its applications in raid would be limited, would enhance our group dps greatly. at the minimal cost of using a cure clicky every so often.

as is, our disease line of spells are terrible, and rarely, if ever, get used.

-pazms
 
People already go over the buffslot limit all the time in places like Cita with the triple warchanter debuff, there's no way anyone would want necros to use disease spells if they had a chance of DOTing the group/raid too. It's not a good idea, sorry.
 
The real thing is less the buff limit, though the bitching about that would be endless. But I would potentially kill my group during every engage I used it requiring extra healing, and the bitching about THAT would be decisive.
 
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