perhaps a low damage DOT that converts Health into mana at a 2-1 ratio.
IE dot does 300 damage a tick, for 10 ticks. Granting 600 mana to the caster per tick or something.
No class should be balanced around one AA
- Thread starter Boehm
- Start date
perhaps a low damage DOT that converts Health into mana at a 2-1 ratio.
IE dot does 300 damage a tick, for 10 ticks. Granting 600 mana to the caster per tick or something.
Silosobi
Dalayan Pious Diety
=p did you read thread?
I do think this is the best way to go, along with making current dots a bit more efficient. Make it be able to recast if the mob changes form and drops it (or even code it to work past this, like intensify sometimes does?!). Necros shouldn't be gimped because a raid boss changes name. Necros should be gimped every other attempt on a raid. And, if necros dps is balanced around a single AA, it should scale with the necro.
1. I love that the title of this thread shows up as "No class should be balanced..." on the main forum page for me at least.
2. Lots of ideas in here. I would support a change probably, but not sure would be best for necros so far. And I wonder if there are some more radical/interesting ideas out there.
2. Lots of ideas in here. I would support a change probably, but not sure would be best for necros so far. And I wonder if there are some more radical/interesting ideas out there.
Silosobi
Dalayan Pious Diety
Change FC to: Demonic Contract
15 min cd
1 sec cast
5 tic self debuff
-10% health every tic
+4% mana per tic
+1% mana to all group members per tic
+50% critical spell chance
Gain additional -100 resist mod to all spells (if possible)
Probably regardless of what happens necros will need a boost to their current dots, otherwise a FC replacement would have to be mega strong to make up all that lost dps. 25% mana recovery might sound like a lot, but a necro is going to naturally recover more than their entire mana pool during most boss fights, meaning that its actually less than 12.5% bonus to the total amount of mana they dump during a raid fight. The +crit and resist mods are very nice, but minimal damage bonuses through a 10 min raid fight.
Scitterpox: change from 9 to 10 tics, and -5 to -25 resist mod.
Relic: Marlow's Cremation: change from 7 to 8 tics.
Archaic: Claws of the Chill: change from 4 to 5 tics.
I like those changes to dots. A number of FC type changes could work. I think I'm still a fan of the simple +% damage per tic, since it scales so perfectly and wouldn't be too hard to balance. Finding a way to allow necros to give group/raid/specific players some extra mana, without it being a crazy OP amount could be fun though.
15 min cd
1 sec cast
5 tic self debuff
-10% health every tic
+4% mana per tic
+1% mana to all group members per tic
+50% critical spell chance
Gain additional -100 resist mod to all spells (if possible)
Probably regardless of what happens necros will need a boost to their current dots, otherwise a FC replacement would have to be mega strong to make up all that lost dps. 25% mana recovery might sound like a lot, but a necro is going to naturally recover more than their entire mana pool during most boss fights, meaning that its actually less than 12.5% bonus to the total amount of mana they dump during a raid fight. The +crit and resist mods are very nice, but minimal damage bonuses through a 10 min raid fight.
Scitterpox: change from 9 to 10 tics, and -5 to -25 resist mod.
Relic: Marlow's Cremation: change from 7 to 8 tics.
Archaic: Claws of the Chill: change from 4 to 5 tics.
I like those changes to dots. A number of FC type changes could work. I think I'm still a fan of the simple +% damage per tic, since it scales so perfectly and wouldn't be too hard to balance. Finding a way to allow necros to give group/raid/specific players some extra mana, without it being a crazy OP amount could be fun though.
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I agree with the OP. If you look at FC as a % of total DPS done by the necromancer, that % starts out very large in the lower tiers and gets smaller quickly as the necromancer progresses through the tiers. (As a result of not being affected by gear). If FC is in anyway being factored into development of the class at high-ish end tiers this should be taken into account.
Nodnal
Dalayan Elder
Leechstorm is about 90% terrible, but I think enough classes have worthless AAs that it does not necessarily warrant an overhaul. The damage on it could probably be a bit increased, though.
I really like the idea to change Festering into a curse that increases DoT damage. That way it scales and is still really fun/good. Lowering the recast on it is also something that should probably be done.
I really like the idea to change Festering into a curse that increases DoT damage. That way it scales and is still really fun/good. Lowering the recast on it is also something that should probably be done.
jew_nose_it
Dalayan Master
So we killed Gornisht the Numb in Pofrost. Hes got a lot of HP. Our necro said his FC was going 1600dmg a tick by the end of the fight. Thats 266DPS alone. I don't know what the progression of the damage is or how long it was at that level for, but yeah.
Dinadass
Dalayan Pious Diety
... Okay?
Brimztone
Dalayan Elder
I like this idea a lot. I think the recast on the AA should definitely be lowered to something shorter(~15) mins mostly because things that are super long cooldowns(1-2 hours) aren't very much fun compared to things with cooldowns that allow you to use them every engage.
donfolstar3
Dalayan Master
Yes! I said "great idea Silosobi but change the cast/cd" and you said "yeah, i suppose" so I said "here is [admittedly I should have put "Silosobi's" here] new and improved FC"- which is a phenomenal idea that makes you my hero! The gradual dot % increase idea is getting general praise and I hope is what happens to FC with a massively reduced/non existent reuse.
Leechstorm:
Is 99% terrible. More damage wouldn't change that (ok, maybe a LOT more damage). The idea of improved mana regen has been thrown around in this thread so how about two birds, one stone:
Lichstorm (aka, Super Mind Wrack)
Cast: 6 sec
Reuse: [lower than Leechstorm]
Duration: 4-6 ticks
Resist: -800
Slot 3: Decrease Current Mana by 250-400 per tick
Recourse: Increase group/raid(?) mana by 250-400 per tick
donfolstar3
Dalayan Master
My dream front page in the near future:
Several Necromancer dots have had their durations extended and resists modified [disease]. The Necro AAs Festering Curse and Leechstorm have been redesigned and Recession has been improved [half the CD]. Relic pets have been transformed into a taco that poops ice cream.
Some adjustments or additions may follow in the future, but for now try it out and report any bugs etc!
[sorry, my dream got weird and plagiaristy there for a second]
Several Necromancer dots have had their durations extended and resists modified [disease]. The Necro AAs Festering Curse and Leechstorm have been redesigned and Recession has been improved [half the CD]. Relic pets have been transformed into a taco that poops ice cream.
Some adjustments or additions may follow in the future, but for now try it out and report any bugs etc!
[sorry, my dream got weird and plagiaristy there for a second]
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Rorne
The sad fish is a reactionary creature; an enemy o
Are you looking to add the mana battery element back to necromancers or is mana actually an issue for them with lich etc? I'm not trying to be snide this is an honest question as I haven't looked at their mana efficiency / ability to regain mana relative to other int casting classes but I had assumed it was superior.
Silosobi
Dalayan Pious Diety
I dont like necros as mana batteries, but them having the ability to feed group/raid (or even just themselves) some extra mana would be a cool utility. They can already do this, but only when the enemy has mana or they can get killshots.
Necro regen/efficiency is the best of any caster at low tiers. At high tiers though wizards have similar mana regen (bc of arcane echo) and higher efficiency, and mages just have much higher efficiency. This is all because of FC, which provides a fuckload of free dps, that at higher tiers starts to get negated by huge mana pools/tomes/charms/focuses making normal spells a bigger portion of caster dps.
Right now, I would say that highend necros are a bit behind comparable wizard/mages in terms of damage output. I'm not even entirely sure thats a problem since they have awesome utility. However, if we remove/change FC they will need some significant ways to regain that lost damage, and giving them extra mana is one way to do that.
Silosobi
Dalayan Pious Diety
I like the idea, but 1000-2400 mana for an entire raid is way too good, especially at lower tiers (ideally, AAs should use %s to make them scale better and not be awesome at t1 and near useless at t13)
Change the numbers to 4 tics @ 1% mana per tic and it might not be too powerful =]
donfolstar3
Dalayan Master
No. Not at all. "Mana Battery" was Necros living a life of suck spending all their time transferring their mana to clerics. It was an active process that robbed the necro of any joy and should never be repeated.
The proposed Lichstorm AA is not about the necros' mana so much as replacing a terrible AA with a long CD improved version of a spell that already exists (Mind Wrack).
Excellent point about % instead of #, though I think the total % should be a bit higher than 4% as even for the most geared players that is only 400 mana (same as Wrack). Suggesting raid wide was silly/greedy. How about 2% a tick for 5 ticks group only. Lichstorm would be more powerful than Mind Wrack for anyone over 4k mana and cap out well below 1k for almost everyone.
Speaking of Mind Wrack the recourse buff has a goofy icon. There are a bunch of red background brain icons, skull icons, and I think a red version of the JB icon that all would make a lot more sense than a muscle arm.
tldr; change FC to the %dot increase and extend some dot durations. stop distracting from threads me.
Rorne
The sad fish is a reactionary creature; an enemy o
Yeah sorry I should have clarified that I was asking if you wanted them to be sought out for mana recuperating abilities/why expand the class in that direction. I knew about the on-kill tome but from my understanding that doesn't have much raid relevance. Also if this is too much of a derail don't sweat it.
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cornelweezy
Dalayan Elder
:haw:
Silosobi
Dalayan Pious Diety
Necros certainly arent bad.
They are amazing at low tiers.
At the endgame their dps might be a bit behind wiz/mage, but even that isnt by a lot.
The only real issue is that FC is basically too good and their dps gets balanced around it, meaning they don't scale well and suck every other engage because the cd is too long.
They are amazing at low tiers.
At the endgame their dps might be a bit behind wiz/mage, but even that isnt by a lot.
The only real issue is that FC is basically too good and their dps gets balanced around it, meaning they don't scale well and suck every other engage because the cd is too long.