Policy Questions Thread

Nwaij said:
Good luck on controlling 2nd spirit with only one flagged guy in raid...
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I'm not 100%, but arn't there some areas you can simply walk to if it's cleared? haha

Not to mention you were literally in a raid with me not 3 weeks ago where we just kicked people till we hit the 2/3rds cap to go back to rez, so maybe 1 wasn't an example. But i'm curious, since with 4 flagged you could then ferry everyone into gens; right? Question still remains, can guilds legally do this?
 
Stryda said:
yes...that's why i said there is a grey area in the wing system...meaning it's unclear...i was just breaking down the wing and suggesting that in my opinion, weaponmaster shouldnt be associated with "kralaws"...
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Weaponmaster is a kralaw though. In fact he's the only real Kralaw named (aside from cash mobs and event mobs) so it doesn't make much sense for him not to be in the Kralaw wing.

Up until the last few times I've done EF I have always been told and assumed that the Kralaw wing started at the tunnel next to the lava bridge and the DE wing. Where the first kralaws are.

If the kralaw wing does start next to the demon wing and only includes the MK / Wabo area then where do WM, HHE, and Szasz Queen fit in? I assume if you skip the PM area and head into the WM, HHE, Szasz Queen area you give up your claim on PM.

A more in depth definition of the EF wings by the staff would be much appreciated. Hopefully this doesn't get buried under PuG questions.
 
Weaponmaster, hellhound and szasz queen are all kralaws. I'm not so sure about szasz queen, but i know both WM and HHE are on the kralaw faction. Dark elves are obviously the mistborn wing. Demons are Baphomet, Melek Taus, and Mountain King I think. Baphomet and Melek Taus share a large portion of clearing with weaponmaster, which is kinda funky, but I think they are considered two different wings.
 
Udeni said:
Weaponmaster, hellhound and szasz queen are all kralaws. I'm not so sure about szasz queen, but i know both WM and HHE are on the kralaw faction. Dark elves are obviously the mistborn wing. Demons are Baphomet, Melek Taus, and Mountain King I think. Baphomet and Melek Taus share a large portion of clearing with weaponmaster, which is kinda funky, but I think they are considered two different wings.
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Bapho and MT don't really share that much clearing with WM. No more than MK or Szasz Queen. I'm pretty sure that MK is not in the demon wing.

The problem is that the EF wings in the 6 man content thread is really vague. The responses to Zapple's question have so far just been guesses showing that most people really don't know for sure where they are or what mobs they contain.
 
Sateru said:
Bapho and MT don't really share that much clearing with WM. No more than MK or Szasz Queen. I'm pretty sure that MK is not in the demon wing.

The problem is that the EF wings in the 6 man content thread is really vague. The responses to Zapple's question have so far just been guesses showing that most people really don't know for sure where they are or what mobs they contain.
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Yes the wings are pretty vague (except for dark elves) but i'm saying if I wanted to kill weaponmaster while your group is killing mountain king, im going to do it because weaponmaster (a kralaw) is not directly linked to the "kralaw" wing. IF a group wanted to go in there and do Bapho/MT and they see weaponmaster up, they can do that (in my opionion) because they pass by it during the clear. Also I dunno if you guys have done MT/Bapho before but if you don't understand my logic then I give up...but i'm sticking with this. Also why would you even care if someone is killing weaponmaster when you are doing MK/Kralaws...complete waste of time....
 
Stryda said:
Yes the wings are pretty vague (except for dark elves) but i'm saying if I wanted to kill weaponmaster while your group is killing mountain king, im going to do it because weaponmaster (a kralaw) is not directly linked to the "kralaw" wing.
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And I would contest you doing so. Until there is a clear definition of wings. I would say it is linked to the kralaw wing.


Stryda said:
IF a group wanted to go in there and do Bapho/MT and they see weaponmaster up, they can do that (in my opionion) because they pass by it during the clear.
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They don't pass by it anymore than someone going after the Szasz Queen or Mountain King. They share one more room during the clear than Szasz Queen or Hellhound Emperor. And they share the same amount of rooms with Mountain King clear.

Stryda said:
Also I dunno if you guys have done MT/Bapho before but if you don't understand my logic then I give up...but i'm sticking with this.
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I have actually. Most wings I know of are defined by what type of mobs are in them just as much as by where they start. Dark Elf wing and Demon wing all have there own mobs that put a clear boundary on where they begin. HHE, Szasz Queen, WM, and MK all pretty much share the same types of mobs.

Stryda said:
Also why would you even care if someone is killing weaponmaster when you are doing MK/Kralaws...complete waste of time....
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Not really. The rare drops from Weaponmaster are actually really good. Not everyone farms Mountain King just for the tomes.


Really though I'm not posting here so that we can discuss where we think a wing starts or should start. What i'm looking for is a clear definition to where it starts. Preferably from Tao.
 
Like I said you dont get my logic so im done, and you can contest all you want cuz weaponmaster drops crappy stuff and he would be dead by the time a GM got into the zone...

Also I don't get why a group killing mountain kill would care who went in to kill weaponmaster...if they cared they would have killed it before going over...my 2 cents...

Weaponmaster is always up too so crying about a mob that no one really kills and you skip it (because his "rares" are so good), then cry about someone going in to kill it after you had neglected it is just funny....
 
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Stryda said:
Like I said you dont get my logic so im done, and you can contest all you want cuz weaponmaster drops crappy stuff and he would be dead by the time a GM got into the zone...

Also I don't get why a group killing mountain kill would care who went in to kill weaponmaster...if they cared they would have killed it before going over...my 2 cents...

Weaponmaster is always up too so crying about a mob that no one really kills and you skip it (because his "rares" are so good), then cry about someone going in to kill it after you had neglected it is just funny....
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It doesn't matter why I would care at all. You're missing the point of this. The point is that everyone seems to have their own idea of where the kralaw wing starts and what mobs are in it. If I'm taking a group to go kill HHE I would care that another group is trying to go do WM.

I didn't really care that WM was killed when it happened. What bothered me was that the group killing WM was just doing it as an excuse to stay in the kralaw wing while they waited to snipe MK if we gave up. And that the GM who answered the petition didn't even know if WM was in the same wing as MK.

Like I said though this isn't about people offering their opinion on where they think it starts. What I'd like to know is where it actually starts and what mobs are in it. Regardless of whether I would care if someone else killed them.
 
I agree. The 'wings' as my group last tried to define them ended up with so much overlap on the way to them as to be useless.

In fact, due to problems with the way the zone progresses as the wings branch off, I would HIGHLY recommend just making it 6-man limited with no wings at all. If we *really* want to allow wings, I would recommend only two, with the split at the lava bridge.

This is something that needs developer ruling, and a very clear one.
 
emberflowwings.jpg


Everyone can take a good new look at this picture. Yes, five wings, and the unclaimable area before you get to one of the wings (much like the 1st floor of Highkeep).

I'll have to figure out names for these wings for the wing list, but yeah, those are the wings now. Any questions?
 
So you can actually race a second group to Pyromancer or Szasz queen even if they got there first? Since they're both in the unclaimable area.
 
Udeni said:
So you can actually race a second group to Pyromancer or Szasz queen even if they got there first? Since they're both in the unclaimable area.
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Pyromancer is literally a 5 minute clear and no one kills Szasz queen because it is too hard for its tier and the loot is terrible.
 
As I understand it, the first group in zone gets claim. So if a second group comes in and the first group is still clearing, they have to ask what the first group is claiming, and then pick something else.
 
Pyromancer and Szaz should probably just get their own "wings" since they do diverge from the main path.

I think that whatever group is in the zone first has claim to whatever wing they want, even if they are not yet in that wing. (Correct me if that was wrong? Allielyn seems to think the same) If someone else asks "what wing are you claiming", the first group must state what they are claiming. Claiming a wing while you are already in and clearing a different wing should probably be jail/banable (EG: Group is almost to MB, and calls claim for MK because another group zoned in to kill it and the first group wanted to kill both)

MK/MB/MT(or Baphomet)/PM/HE/SQ/WM would probably work for wing names.

The only other disparity I could see with Emberflow is that if a group is headed for MT or Baphomet, can they give permission for a 2nd group to come in and kill the other mob permitted that the two groups dont interfere/assist with eachothers clear at all (the 2nd group would have to wait for full repop of all pulls and clear/split it without help. The same issue could go for killing cash named in claimed wings. I dont see a problem if the group with claim allows it, and the 2nd group has to do a normal full clear.

Very good/needed changes!
 
Nadox policy question

this is a serious question. not a use your common sense. im wondering if Nadox is or could be one of the very few exceptions to the content skipping rules..... what im talking about is since there is a very short amount of people that even go to Nadox. would it be ok To have a mage flagged for the second beacon and then CoTH people to it when say my grp (usually atleast ALWAYS same 4+ people) is there and flagged and then we need a replacement like an extra cleric (that hasnt made it to the beacon) and obviously this "cleric" will want to flag himself once he's there. is this a HUGE nono?

basically. Can a mage CoTH people to the second beacon flag for grouping purposes?

(im not talking about camping a mage there and just randomly CoTH'ing people to it. Just only when that aprticular mage is grped with us?)
 
Sounds kind of reasonable, especially with the precedent set with hmal tunnels. As I recall it was ruled as the only time ever when it was ok to use a corpsecall to rez a replacement inside, provided you still had the requisite number of flagged toons in the group.
 
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Dimmi said:
Sounds kind of reasonable, especially with the precedent set with hmal tunnels. As I recall it was ruled as the only time ever when it was ok to use a corpsecall to rez a replacement inside, provided you still had the requisite number of flagged toons in the group.
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exactly what i was thinking. same sort of thing. The only problem i forsee is when we CoTH people they are obviously gonna want to hail the beacon and flag themselves which is kind of an issue cause getting the flag is hard work and they get it for nothing (which i dont mind) but staffers might.
 
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