Policy Questions Thread

Allielyn said:
Re: Skipping Content
ANY Mobs (raid or otherwise) which are static cannot be skipped (by training away, or CoTH summoning, corpse summoning and rezzing past, or any other means) without risking a fat ban. Content which is roaming and can be avoided by waiting may be skipped. Specific instances include collecting groundspawns for MoTG, which *must* be done by killing the mobs guarding the growndspawns and cannot be done by flopping a monk around, and also Inner Prison, where none of the mobs are designed to be 'skippable' with the exception of the Farg drop-down which may bypass some content from the long way around. Exception: you may invis and run past mobs which do not see invisibility.
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Was chatting with somebody that was in a pofire PuR and they asked if they needed to climb the wall. Somebody replied with that's content skipping, so I decided to search the forums and I found nothing to say if it was or not. I can see it being content skipping if the guild hasn't killed mephitkalia or ambassador of hakim, but if they have and are down, I don't see how it is content skipping.

Also, another person said that there is a book stating that the one spot of the wall is the bouncer's "blind spot" and is actually in the lore that you can go through it.

So my question is, is climbing up the wall past the bouncer considered content skipping, or is it O.K. to do? If so, under what circumstances?
 
Had a question was't sure where to post it but here been reading rules n forums n everything from my phone trying to learn stuff abt the server while i wait for my internet to get turned on in a few days so my question was if i borrowed a higher lvl char from a friend n grouped it with my new char n used it to get few no drop items like stuff for soulfire or sumthing of that sort is it againist the rules long as i bring both chars along ( my newbe n there char) just making sure dont wanna start out and bet in trouble. Sorry if there is a post alrdy using my phone to search n read stuff on the forrum is not the easyest.
 
The "Out-of-raid Looting" is basically what you need. You need to be actively contributing with the newbie character, and you need to be within 15 levels in order to loot.
 
Im pretty sure 2/3 need to have all previous flags but i want to comfirm this. For ToT say the farhag or memphar wing. Does the 12 people need ALL prior flags ex: bloodfire talon djarr and lobby. Or could i take 12 people to farhags who have completed JUST memphar?
 
I'm 99% sure the answer will be:
In a pug situation, the 2/3 rule applies, including all wings up to the wing you wish to raid. If it is a guild raid and the guild has all the flags up to the wing you wish to raid, you may do so (presumably with new members who had not been there for the progression through the earlier parts of ToT)
 
**Actively helping means your character is there, with the rest of the raid, doing the raid thing with the raid target. In general, being on the target's aggro list is a fair clarification and being within the level range that allows you to loot the mob's corpse may be considered among other factors. There are some raid encounters in-game wherein the loot rewards are dropped from a lower level NPC box rather than the named mob. This does NOT mean that your level 1 Rabb the Rat alt is allowed loot from the box. The level of the raid mob itself is what is to be taken into consideration. To clarify this, Treasure Map chest higher than Simple can be looted by characters no lower than level 55.
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So. Let's say, for instance, you have 16 people in raid, and someone runs up with 25% of the mob left, and just gets a raid invite (not in a group, just gets thrown a raid invite [that you can do during combat], not there on engage, but high enough to get the loot, and get on aggro list). Legal?
 
Puting numbers on things is kinda like sleeping with your sister. Most of the time it really is an easy alternative that simplifies life, but! in certain instances, it's really just boxing yourself into a precedent you might live to regret.

This is an instance where I'd take a long hard look at the spirit of the rules if I were forced to make a judgement call...did the character joining the raid actively participate in killing the mob? Was their contribution meaningful enough to reward them with loot (rotting or not, would you as a raid leader be happy awarding that toon loot over another person in the raid who also hypothetically wants it?) Obviously puting a number on the mob's hp like 25% will ellicit an immediate taru-no...but then what happens next time when it's 30? well what about 40? 50? 75? 99? WHERE DOES IT END (Answer obv is wherever staff decides, but I digress)

I'm casting my official democratic (kekeke) vote for the Rule of Nylab....did the toon in question make a meaningful contribution after showing up late? (Please don't pandora's-box this into "well hell there are people that show up to raids and get loot without contributing anything at all!" b/c that's totally not the point)

(Taru make me king of Policy Plaza tia)
 
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lynnettell said:
So. Let's say, for instance, you have 16 people in raid, and someone runs up with 25% of the mob left, and just gets a raid invite
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Why would this happen? This shouldn't happen. The raid leader shouldn't have invited them.

This is bad on every angle.

(1) Need that 17th to kill the mob? That's basically out-of-raid assistance.

(2) Scamming them in to get loot at the last minute? Why didn't you just wait until they got there to engage?

(3) Engaged the mob to get claim on it before another group? Shame on you again, and no.

No loot, and anyone leading a raid that would award them loot is someone whose raids you should avoid.
 
Pick-Up Raid Loot Distribution

In a pick-up raid, the raid leader has the freedom of distributing loot as he or she sees fit. This freedom is not absolute and comes hand-in-hand with the responsibility to not only make it abundantly clear to the entire force prior to engagement the procedure of loot distribution but to prepare documentation of making the procedure clear to the entire raid that may be provided to staff in case of a dispute afterwards.

In the absence of such clarity (pics or it didn't happen), the loot distribution for each item in question will default to the following: Every character in the raid that wishes to loot an item has the right to a equal random chance at the loot, and this random chance is to be done with /random within an audible distance of the corpse in question in a reasonable time frame allowing for resurrections but not for corpse rotting.

Attempts to abuse this policy in ways including but not limited to the following may be met with severe jail sentences or bannings: (a) Trying to get loot on an under-level character (b) Trying to obtain no drop gear you cannot equip, use for a quest, etc. in order to keep another player from obtaining it (c) deceiving a raid member with clever or tricky wording into believing they have loot chances they not (d) trying to get loot on a character not engaged during the fight.

This policy is NOT restricted to NO DROP loots. You must include coin and cash loot in your "making everything clear". The "standard" that these items default to the raid leader does NOT exist. You must claim those items clearly beforehand.

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I think this policy needs clarification. If the only proper documentation the staff will allow is screenshot evidence of loot claims/distribution/etc. then the rule should be amended as such. Currently the rule states "pics or it didn't happen"; considering that this is a phrase loosely used all over the internet it does not properly portray to the SoD community that they need screenshot evidence as opposed to logs.
 
Probably a good way of putting it if I understand this right, is saying "You need to have a screen shot with you /shout'ing the loot rules with everyone in zone who is in the raid." Or something like that.
 
Yeah, I'm on it. I just need to find a nice way to say "you better be ready to cover your ass against a ninja looting / item theft accusation where the onus of proof is on you that the person petitioning against you had every reason to know the loot distribution beforehand".

14 people in the raid saying "he said it in vent and in-game" doesn't equal evidence that "person 17 that raised a complaint about loot was in zone and in raid when loot distribution was explained".

A very large part of the reason this policy exists is so that a raid consisting of 15 people people in the same guild and 2 people picked up out of OOC cannot bully the 2 out of getting loot by loot claims other than "this is how it will be, if you don't like them, don't do this PuG raid", and the policy must reflect that.

In the meantime, it'd be a good idea to go out of your way to make sure everyone understands and must have seen/understood/agreed. The situation of calling out loot distribution while the 2 people in the raid that are not in your guild are zoning is unacceptable and must be addressed. Clearly, I have work to do, but "cover your ass if you're claiming any items for anyone" is the mindset I'd suggest while I re-write the policy to make the spirit of the policy clearer.
 
A very large part of the reason this policy exists is so that a raid consisting of 15 people people in the same guild and 2 people picked up out of OOC cannot bully the 2 out of getting loot by loot claims other than "this is how it will be, if you don't like them, don't do this PuG raid", and the policy must reflect that.
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This statement is very unclear to me, so I'm still not sure of what the supposed problem is that's been identified.

If anything, it seems that the problem is not everyone in the pick-up raid knowing the rules of the pick-up raid when they join. The question then becomes, how do we make the rules of the pick-up raid clear to everyone who joins?

Only two solutions spring to mind:

1) Force all pick-up raids to to abide by the same guidelines. I think this solution is unnecessary at least and deincentivizes the formation of pick-up raids at worst.

2) Find another way of ensuring that all players understand the rules of the pick-up raid.

I think option two is a better way of going. In a perfect world, the raid rules could be posted to the raid window by the raid leader, and everyone who joined the raid would have access to the rules because they're written in the raid window, just like player comments are shown when you right-click and inspect a toon.

If client limitations prevent the editing of the raid window in such a way, perhaps make the raid rules accessible via a game command, like /motd or /guildmotd. Something along the lines of /RAIDLEADERpugmotd. Or whatever.
 
The problem that you don't understand... I'll try to explain it by example.

12 people in guild A start a PuG, grab 6 others.

They announce "Item 'spear of barbeque deliciousness' claimed for Person B, all droppable and coin loot claimed for Raid Leader, all other no drop items to be randomed among those that want and can use" as the loot rules.

Boss target is killed and drops "sword of bacon grease" and "helmet of stryofoam".

Raid Leader awards the sword to Person C in guild A which only Person C and one of the 6 non-guild-A players (Person D) can use, and he does so without randoming.

Person D objects, and the 12 people in guild A say "that item was claimed, we all knew, it was announced" untruthfully.

Person D petitions, GM answers the petition and asks for the story from Person D and the Raid Leader. Person D tells the truth. Raid Leader lies and offers to have his 11 guild A buddies vouch for him.

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That's a problem that must be addressed. It will be addressed. Ironing out some issues, but a solution is believed to have been found. Stay tuned.
 
Pick-Up Raid Loot Distribution

In a pick-up raid, the raid leader has the freedom of distributing loot as he or she sees fit. This freedom is not absolute and comes hand-in-hand with the responsibility to announce the procedure of loot distribution in the Open Raiding forum prior to engaging any NPCs for the raid.

In the absence of a clear, unambigious thread in the Open Raiding forum (ambiguity is a GM judgment call that will usually favor the party that did not draft the loot rules), the loot distribution for each item in question will default to the following method: Every character in the raid that wishes to loot an item has the right to a equal random chance at the loot, and this random chance is to be done with /random within an audible distance of the corpse in question in a reasonable time frame allowing for resurrections but not for corpse rotting.

The main question this leaves for me is:

Many times on a pug we will have a target and I will state loot rules for that, but after that dies, something else will spawn or get tracked or w/e and I decide to continue the pug in that direction. Am I allowed to make another post updating the rules for the new raid target even though we have already engaged NPCs, or do I need to make some blanked statement at the end of any claim post saying I reserve the rights to claim anything on mobs past the initial claimed target (Which doesnt sound very encouraging to others, but i dont know how else to clearly state claims for mobs i dont know im killing yet)
 
Silosobi said:
Many times on a pug we will have a target and I will state loot rules for that, but after that dies, something else will spawn or get tracked or w/e and I decide to continue the pug in that direction. Am I allowed to make another post updating the rules for the new raid target even though we have already engaged NPCs, or do I need to make some blanked statement at the end of any claim post saying I reserve the rights to claim anything on mobs past the initial claimed target (Which doesnt sound very encouraging to others, but i dont know how else to clearly state claims for mobs i dont know im killing yet)
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I'm thinking this is a no brainer. Make a new post with new mob/new info/new stuff, explain in /rs what your post says, tell people to read it, tell the people in raid that you're going to a new target, tab over & read it.

But, that's just me thinking people actually read the forums.
 
Yah just make a new post. The only problem i see people bitching about here would be the. "if its the same raid that dropped the last target and the raid leader says in /rs ""READ MY POST FOR NEW TARGETS"" would be the same exact thing as just /rs (insert claims here) and not posting. (the previous Pug loot distribution rule without the new post your shit in forums rule)
 
"loot distribution in the Open Raiding forum prior to engaging any NPCs for the raid."

This is what kind of concerns me. Of course what you all posted is the logical and reasonable solution, but these rules tend to be followed very strictly and I would just like to make sure it is okay to addend rules AFTER engaging some NPCs assuming it pertains to new NPCs that have not been engaged, and is clearly stated to the raid that an addendum has been made.
 
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