New spells discussion thread.

Vartenaal said:
what do you mean by low agro? the current wave of light spell holds agro for like 1.5-2 big heals. depends on mob somehow too i guess, cause usually it sticks and holds for 2big heals in hhk normal mobs, but just last night i got agro after 2nd heal on some basement mobs. anything less agro wise would just be a waste of a spell slot imo
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Because the agro from stuns is based on level and the duration of the stun, so the AE wouldn't be huge AE agro, and would be much less than word of the crusader, with the trade off that it would be unresistable with a recast, something paladins don't have. That was the point of my idea, to give them a little more utility and flavor.


As far as dominate animal, I don't see how the lowering resists would help, as most raids already reach the cap for resist debuffs. The other effects are very nice for how efficient it currently would be.

Faelus said:
Make the spell a DEBUFF with no counters, that lasts say, 15 minutes, to prevent clicking it to nuke, and recasting it.
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No reason to make it a debuff, just give it a large mana cost/cooldown.
 
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I'd like to see SKs get some sort of raid benefit/utility with the expansion, so that we can contribute more than our 120 DPS while not tanking. Vortex of Death and Feign Death do this to an extent, but we're still a waste of a raid slot when we're not tanking something.
 
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Mythryn said:
I'd like to see SKs get some sort of raid benefit/utility with the expansion, so that we can contribute more than our 120 DPS while not tanking. Vortex of Death and Feign Death do this to an extent, but we're still a waste of a raid slot when we're not tanking something.
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a self buff that decreases their tank stats, but increases the group's tank or DPS stats... maybe even just affects casting speed, but can be clicked off, thus, if tank dies, SK can still run in and save the day.
 
I got an idea for a wizard spell. How do people like an upgraded relak rapid rending spell? I still use it from time to time and wizard's could use a superfast, magic based, asskicker.
 
Paladin
-Descending Judgement: Target based Rain, 300 damage and 1 second stun per wave, 510 mana, -50 MR check, 1 second cast, 10 second recast
-Runic: Protective Lustration: Group HoT for 24 seconds, 390 per tick, decreases spell damage (and healing) done by 8%, 780 mana, 1.75 second cast, 20 second recast

Personally i think the rain part of the spell is a killer... a neg resist mod would mean the rain (stun portion) would be landing on us (paladins) and also we are AE masters as Vart had stated a spell that lands on no more than 2 targets is about worthless to us.

Personally i would like to see...

Paladin
-Descending Judgement: PBAOE (so that it might actually be useful), 450 damage and 1 second stun, 600 mana, -35 MR check, 1.5 second cast, 10 second recast.

A pbaoe would be more useful than a rain, a rain is great but for casters pr people who dont get face time with the mobs, a rain on a rushing might not be a good idea. =)

-Runic: Protective Lustration: Group heal for 1600, 780 mana, 1.75 second cast, 15 second recast.

This would actually give a nice boost to the "frontline healer" roll that was planned out by Wiz and SoE sometime ago... Another hot that bearly counts as an upgrade would be almost useless in the forward teirs. If the group heal thing doesnt fly then please consider and upgrade to a self-heal... seeing that atleast 75% of 65 paladins dont have tara's healing flames...

PS a upgrade for RRR (relak rapid rending) would and or should be greatly approved.
 
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While I'm at it, the new druid spells which I'm not nearly as happy with as the mage ones. What I said before my other post still applies.

Druid
-Dominate Animal: Animal based 5 second stun, decrease attack by 50, 25% slow, lower all resists by 25, lower current hate by 200 for one minute. 5 second cast, 450 mana, -10 MR check.

Hrm. I don't like banes for obvious reasons that I've gone into like a million times before. This is just a bane stun debuff. Short time in concept so far, very limited usage, but then again appears to be just a regular spell rather than a runic or artifact. I don't feel it would deserve runic or artifact status honestly. It's okay, but not great.


-Runic: Overwhelming Empathy: Single Target heal for 4300 base, 780 mana cost, 3.75 second cast time
I like the idea of a bigger heal. Double mana cost seems to be the trend with the heals though. I don't think it really should be. Healing has a limit, whereas dps does not. Thus while a high cost for high damage still has value in terms of dps v efficiency, on heals this does not follow the same trend due to constant overheal problems, that would definitely occur.

-Runic: Cascading Vim: 100 range group heal for 1780 base, plus leaves a 500/tick HoT lasts 12 seconds, 1010 mana cost, 4.12 second cast time
Fast cast time woo, same base as circle of vitality but a hot. so basically its a groupheal that takes a long time, when one considers the hot component. Honestly it does not impress me.


-Artifact: Warp Nature: Target based 1225 DD, 400/tick DoT and 2% slow for 18 seconds, 880 mana cost, 8 second cast, -70 MR check, requires a reagent.

I kind of like this. I'll still probably use nightfire far more however and overall be better off. I think it tries to hit too many areas really. If you want a lure, make a lure, if you want a dot, make a dot, if you want a better dd, make a dd, this just tries to do all of those, and suffers in quality as a result. I personally want it to do one or two things, and do them well.

Now another class I play! :D

Shaman
-Crippling Surge: Target based AE debuff, lowers AC, STR, DEX and AGI (kobex doesn't want to show the numbers just yet) for 5 minutes, 435 mana cost, -25 MR check
I like the idea. I like duration. I like the - check. It definitely needs to be respectable and stacking issues need to be worked out prior however. There's certainly no need for another fatebind.

-Runic: Spiritual Attuning: Group based Torpor (600 healed per tick instead of 300) for 24 seconds, 850 mana cost, 6 second cast
Neat, but not really exciting honestly. You're looking at torpor first of all. I'm hoping you mean torpor line (rather than just a group torpor itself), more in line with ancient slumber of the beast, so there would be actual value to this as a spell. Torpor is a hot, and good for the shaman, it would be good for other healers and casters as well. It would be absolutely awful for melee's or tanks. Unless we're talking about no snare or atk speed decrease component.

-Runic: Convalesce Spirit: Target based heal for 2850 base for 885 mana, 3.85 second cast
A little more exciting...but woundbane beats it hands down honestly in terms of what shamans do. I'm guessing it's supposed to be an inefficient big drop heal, but see my comments relating to overheal for why I think it's bad, its not even close to as bad as druid or cleric problems with newer big heals, because shamans just don't have the kind of instant healing power of either. Shamans are really about efficiency and duration. I don't see this doing either.

Some other assorted comments

-Runic: Aura of Destruction: Target based Illusion: Imp, increase spell crit chance by 1% (might be higher, Kobex parser hates this effect) and 35 cha for 18 seconds. 350 mana cost, 2 second cast, 15 second recast.

No. Please. Just no. Unless of course the Illusion: Imp is going to all of a sudden stack with the Necro lich form, and the Mage Elemental form aa's. Otherwise from a dps caster perspective it's a significant mana regen hit, and unless the benefits are extremely significant, is definitely not worth the hit, and I personally would probably end up yelling at the enchanter casting it on me and then using blockbuff. I'd like it if it didn't fuck these up, which I'm assuming it will, as many other illusions already do. Really it would only be useful raidwise on 3 classes. Restarting a lich might seem trivial after fight, but you're losing mana regen the entire time, and a significant amount of it, elemental form? Well hope you enjoy losing your 6 mana regen and the other assorted effects of it for generally the next 15 min (depending on zone and other raidbuffs available, for example airform not working in the majority of zones, earth being pretty much useless due to not stacking with combine and being less worthwhile, fireforms stacking issues and seemingly odd benefits which cause the stacking issues. Most of the time you're stuck with just water form.)
 
Mythryn said:
I'd like to see SKs get some sort of raid benefit/utility with the expansion, so that we can contribute more than our 120 DPS while not tanking. Vortex of Death and Feign Death do this to an extent, but we're still a waste of a raid slot when we're not tanking something.
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Seriously, even making a runic vortex of death that was raid-wide instead of group only would be incredible (although I'd like to see SKs have more utility in single group scenarios as well).
 
The shaman single target heal is the only heal I consider viable out of the 3 single target heals. The group torpor spell does have the slow/snare component, which means I would never use it on my shaman, unless I wasn't fighting something, which makes it fairly worthless. Lower the health per tick to 350, increase the mana cost by 35, and lower the cast speed by 3 seconds, and remove the slow/snare part and call it a day. I see no reason why shamans have to be penalized for group healing.
 
I'm sorry if I missed it if the question was already answered...

How will players obtain runic spells?
 
I actually like the group torpor concept. It's pretty kickin for downtime in groups or for caster groups on raids, who won't suffer from the slow. It's situational, but I'll take the expansion of abilities on my shaman.
 
Yes well taking 30 seconds to do less than what a cleric can currently do in 4 seconds is depressing, even if its on a caster group (which currently would be the only group this heal could be used on)
 
probably have to wait until the expansion comes out. maybe they dont know what they're gonna have drop the scrolls
 
Well beings the go along similar to how the current spells are i am guessing the normal spells are just mob drops with runic spells being upper tier raid drops turn in like relic spells and the artifact being the equivalent to archaic ie multidrop combines.

It makes sense by the way the spells are designed honestly.

Look at the torpor line, while it may not make sense in a group senario in a raid setting its usefulness skyrockets. On a raid mob you hardly ever move except for a few encounters. Also on raid encounters with aes and the like group heals become much more desirable.

The same goes with the artifact druid nuke. A 2% slow if it stacks may not seem like a lot but it would be pretty huge in the raid game, especially if it will hit on slow immune mobs.

as far as the big heals goes it depends on how much they intend to scale gear in the expansion as to their usefulness.

I do like the idea of moving druids a little closer to clerics in terms of healing.
I know some of the clerics have complained about this but honestly, all i ever do in raids as a druid is heal and cast my fire debuff. Its not like I actually ever use any of the dd spells on a raid unless the shit has really hit the fan, its just not worth the mana as using a dd is one less heal I have.

One thing I would like to see is a better druid quick heal though or a single target hot or something to add another option than just recasting the same big heal and group heal. That being said I do like the group heal+hot I can see it being incredibly useful.

The animal spell I see as situational at best but for when your able to use it, it can be nice depending on stacking, if the slow and attack debuff dont stack though the spell will ultimately be useless because the shaman slow and druid attack debuff will overwrite it on raids.
 
Even if the numbers are incorrect, both bard spells seem to be extremely lackluster. For a class that has little to do with charming on SoD (charming is pretty terrible on SoD in general anyways), I do not understand why bards get a charm. This seems like a very terrible crowd control spell, and not the way to go for the detrimental spell bards should be using.

If the staff wants to continue the route of a charm, please make it viable. If it can be made to take a small amount of mana per tick, and the charm would last as long as our mana pool holds out, then that might be something useful. The fact that it can break before the 7 seconds is up, and then not be cast for another 30 seconds is very underwhelming. It also costs 1000 mana, and yes, I know the numbers are hopefully not near what they should be, but making a charm use a large chunk of mana and only last a few ticks is a pretty bad way to go about using a charm for a bard. Sure, we don't have many options for using our mana, especially at the high end when our pools are bigger and our mana regen is maxed (spell mana regen), but this is not the right way to fix this problem, and neither was Denon's Requiem Finale. Both songs are so situational, that I would rarely mem them. Like I said, if the song is definitely going to be a charm, then the functionality needs to be changed into a charm, and not a horrible crowd control spell (I can think of about 2 zones I would even use this, and only a few spots in those zones...with the long recast, I would just never mem it).

I would propose either an upgrade to chant of the flame/frost, or a combination of the two (as Allielyn has suggested many times). The damage would not be as strong as our relic dot, but it could be a small increase to both chant of plague/venom and debuff both an amount of fire and cold on the mob. Another option is to give them another utility detrimental song in the form of an ac/stat/attack debuff, or a debuff that sort of functions like the druid archaic to increase the dps of the raid (maybe increasing a straight % of the melee damage done instead of caster damage). I feel the bard song should indeed be a detrimental one (we have way too many good melody songs and not many detrimentals we use on raids), but one that acts as utility like most of our other songs. Something new and fresh, but not a charm that would be so terrible, no bard would ever mem it. I think the bard charm should be scrapped, but if it can be made viable, then leave it in (it will be hard to make it viable without making it overpowered).

Next, I am fairly sure Song of Sustenance is a joke, but if not, then don't even bother making it. If the song is actually real, then it is just a slap in the face to bards and no one would use it. Again, I believe bards should be getting more detrimental songs and less beneficial songs (all of our beneficial songs we use are already VERY good). If there should be a beneficial song, I would ask for a raid wide Song of the Blademaster type song with way less or no haste, but better stats, better attack and a smaller DS. That would be the only type of song I would use on raids over what I have now.

Another song I always thought would be neat to see would be an aggro song that acted the opposite of Song of Dawn. This would allow bards to help kite in situations and keep aggro where they cannot do damage to a mob. I can think of lots of instances this would be helpful on through out the tiers, and it would also help when we need snap aggro if that situation ever comes up. Song of Dusk seems to suffice, so the naming scheme would already be done.

Overall, I am very unimpressed with the bard songs, with the ideas, and even more so the unfinalized numbers.

P.S. Just so this post isn't purely a whine fest, I really like the new necro spells and will be using all but the super inefficient artifact spell if that is even attainable by PCs.

*These ideas are not solely my own and I have gotten them from conversing with many bards throughout my career here on SoD.
 
I too am unimpressed with the SK spells.

-Cloak of the Razad: Self based buff, 220 HP, See invis, 55 spell AC, 8 point damage shield, +5% aggression.
-Runic: Agent of Kaezul: Summon pet for 12 seconds, 50 spell AC, 950 mana cost, 120 second recast
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The Cloak is a good start, but 5% aggression is very small upgrade when all the DPS and healing classes will be doing more than 5% extra aggro. It's been stated before that SKs have not gotten an aggro boost since Terror of Kaezul was put in the game, something like 3 years ago. Meanwhile DPS classes do twice the DPS they did back then, with multiple tools for increased burst DPS, which means the aggro levels SKs have to deal with today are much higher than what we had to deal with when the aggro spells we currently use were designed.

What I would ideally like to see is an upgraded terror-type spell, with a much larger recast than normal terrors (36 seconds instead of 6), an increased mana cost and a hefty boost to aggro compared to Terror of Kaezul, that would leave a recourse on the SK that allows him to generate more aggro for 18 seconds. Something like:

Whispers of Marlow: Target based increase hate by 912, 210 mana cost, unresistable, 150 range, 1 second cast, 36 second recast. Auto casts:

Marlow's Kiss: Self based increase aggression by 40% for 18 seconds
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As far as the pet spell goes, we'll just have to wait and see what exactly it does, but I hope the developers keep in mind how spell AC is handled, because unless it's an AE Taunt ala warriors, I would not use the spell currently.
 
Ranger
-Shelter of the Ancients: Pet based 2000 point magic rune, 680 mana, 2 second cast, 30 second recast

How long will this spell last on the pets?
 
Nodnal said:
Next, I am fairly sure Song of Sustenance is a joke, but if not, then don't even bother making it. If the song is actually real, then it is just a slap in the face to bards and no one would use it. Again, I believe bards should be getting more detrimental songs and less beneficial songs (all of our beneficial songs we use are already VERY good). If there should be a beneficial song, I would ask for a raid wide Song of the Blademaster type song with way less or no haste, but better stats, better attack and a smaller DS. That would be the only type of song I would use on raids over what I have now.
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Awesome! Another satisfied bard!

In seriousness keep up the feedback. We ain't ignoring it. Very few spells are finalized, even in concept. Gotta test them somehow...

Also to foster some more chatter...

Vague info splash*:
'Regular' spells will definitely be attainable by just about anyone at 65 with some work.
At least one 'Runic' spell should be attainable by single/multi grouping.
You are REALLY gonna have to earn the 'artifact' spell though. Thats gonna be for the high end raiders only for the most part.



*Even vague info splash is subject to change! Also I will not detail any more than whats shown
 
I personally like the idea of another charm, especially up to level 64.
I agree with a non-beneficial stance but do not agree with another rdot line
 
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