New spells discussion thread.

[robopirateninja]

Adding in either of those spells will not expand rangers in any way, shape, or form. The fact that you so positively believe this is the case simply shows how little you actually know about rangers.

I reiterate the above statement in response to your idea of what buffs are actually valuable and what buffs aren't. You simply have no idea what you're talking about, and are trying to legitimize your position spawned of fantasy and ignorance with your current position in the game. I'm sure you know a great deal about being a wizard and what buffs work for you, but don't presume to know a ranger like Eustace knows rangers.

There is more to a ranger than soloing. When I say expand your role I mean in the raid game. You're already the top soloing ranger on the server with your maxed tomes that went faster than an HHK group of UT geared players, so I couldn't begin to argue with you about that.

When you compose a raidforce you want the maximum dps, healing and tanking you can fit into 18 slots. There's also an artificial incentive to bring all 15 classes for a chance at a bonus loot.

A ranger currently adds to a raid:
-their dps
-call of the predator

Several classes provide better dps than rangers in many situations. If the better dps is necessary to win, the difference between 14 and 15 classes on bonus loots is irrelevant. Giving the pet buffs to rangers makes their list of things they add to the raid longer, or expanded to look like this:
-their dps
-call of the predator
-pet shelter buffs

Now, if you want to argue about whether the 10 or so pets your buff will be landing on are going to add more dps to the raid by surviving than you could in the x shots you get off in the y cast time of the spell, you might have a reasonable argument, but "rangers shouldn't help people because I don't want to" is worthless.

 

[Kazimir]

a suggestion for rangers would be a self only wolf form equivalent or slightly better than the druid: shared greater wolf form. catch being make it indoor usable. that line has a lot of potential, but right now is basically useless as rangers self only version is worse than druids and cant be used half the time b/c of indoor zones. this would add an effective boost to the class possibly bringing them a little more in line w/ dps but wouldn't be too overpowered as all dps classes already get wolf in a raid outdoors as well. (if neccessary remove the movement speed boost)

 

[Notpit]

Now, if you want to argue about whether the 10 or so pets your buff will be landing on are going to add more dps to the raid by surviving than you could in the x shots you get off in the y cast time of the spell, .

I don't know about other pet class players, but I will keep my pet alive if possible, because it takes so long to get him buffed up again. Sha's Mending is a 3 second cast for less than 2k heal, recast 10 seconds. Add in the time it takes to /assist back on mob, one can see that the amount I heal will significantly impact my dps. With mages I would expect the manna impact to be significant too.

I can see this spell making Ranjahs "required" for many encournters. Amicii has not had a Ranger in most raids for a while and it has not been a huge problem. But this addition can make Rangers a class that we will not want to leave out.

 

[Gregor]

I'm not a ranger and don't profess to know jack about the class. I can however see where this shelter line would be handy on many raid situations. Even more so then a few extra bow draws here and there. If rangers don't wanna use it then so be it just don't use it. I still see many situations where having the pets live to add more dps over a brutal fight is well worth loosing a few bow draws in order to keep the pets alive. In return those pets who would have died are still alive and dealing out dps. In a way pretty much making up for the times a ranger would use Shelter instead of plugging away at their bow.

So really if rangers don't want access to a good spell just save your plats. If they want to become more then just a bow and some arrows then right on. I'm not a ranger and I can see the benefit that shelter would offer a raid force.

It might not be as exciting as more DPS for just the ranger, but certainly alive pets still hitting the mobs adds dps where there would be none if they died that fight.

Also just curious but would shelter effect swarm pets as well? If so I can totally see even more situations where this would help. Expecially when you watch them all crumple over to an aoe before they get the chance to fully add a nice dps chunk. If shelter could keep them up through just one aoe during that time they would have added a crap ton of extra dps before kicking the bucket.

 

[Nodnal]

Some classes don't have a lot of say in whether their pet dies or not. Necros only get a DoT tap that heals them over time and an AA that heals them every 8mins (once a fight). Also, if your pet is taking less AE damage, you have more time using your melee DPS or DoTs/nukes. The buff is really nice, and at least you CAN use it on raids. Many of these new runics are either too inefficient for raids, or too situational (not saying the shelter line is not situational).

 

[Gregor]

Yeah it's going to be situational. The thing is most bosses at the high end don't mess around when it comes to casting aoes. I'm thinking more often then not shelter will be used multiple times during a raid. Not to mention alot of trash kicks ass with aoes as well on the way to said bosses. Yes it's going to be situational, but I see it being used quite often on most raids. That is if they buy the spell or aquire it through other means and mem it in their books. =p

 

[Eustace]

If the rune was intended to be raid-wide, I wouldn't be griping so much. However, at the mana cost listed here on a single cast rune for each pet, the ranger is going to be completely OOM after buffing all the pets one by one. Additionally, you can't expect a ranger to start tossing rune around at pets in the middle of an encounter - a raidwipe buff I would do, since I could just tab/click and maybe lose one attack round at worst.

Edit - Greg, this isn't shelter that's being proposed, it's a single-cast 2000 point pet-only rune. (Although if I were a pet class, I'd be asking for runecloak for my pet and not ranger-rune.)

 

[Severien]

-Shelter of the Ancients: Pet based 2000 point magic rune, 680 mana, 2 second cast, 30 second recast

Doesn't specify targeting. Raidwide really wouldn't be too bad, even if it isn't the direction I would want ranger utility to go in.

Also Tyrone, you seem to have a very poor understanding of how much DPS the ranger class can do. I suggest you get parsing whenever you group or raid with one that understands that they shouldn't be meleeing.

Also pet classes, you need to be asking clerics to death save your pets if you're that concerned about survivability. It's quite useful and I've watched many a pet bar bounce back up to 100%.

 

[Cyzaine]

Just to get the arguing back on track... It's raid wide. We're not THAT sadistic...

 

[Mythryn]

It shows as a pet buff with an AE range, which does NOT make it raid wide, since the person casting a pet-type spell has to have a pet out, and you can't cast pet-spells on other peoples pets. I left the raid wide component out because I don't think it will work, if it does, great.

 

[txwasthereasonn]

While I don't play a ranger nor have I ever, the rune does seem a little useless if it's single cast. Though that depends on the duration of it also. But you can't simply say Oh this doesn't benefit my dps or character at all - it's garbage. Such as Beastlord's cunning of the beast, it doesn't benefit them but it does benefit the Casters. This would benefit Casters also in a new way, allowing them to DPS more instead of frantically healing their pets. As a mage, I don't really have to worry so much as other pet classes as long as I have barrier ward up. But some mana is still spent healing, more so for beasts and necro's.

 

[Waldoff]

It is actually a proc that makes all pets in the raid pvp flagged. So the ranger shoots them with his bow and the pets get the rune.

(Its PBAE Raid Wide)

 

[Eustace]

Thanks for that Wold and Zae, that cools my jets quite a bit.

I'd still like to see a negative aggro component added to that quiver. If it had one, I'd use it in every group or raid, hands down.

 

[Mythryn]

Thanks for that Wold and Zae, that cools my jets quite a bit.

I'd still like to see a negative aggro component added to that quiver. If it had one, I'd use it in every group or raid, hands down.

For all we know, the spell could generate no agro, as could any of these.

 

[Waldoff]

I always think its funny when people only count the DPS that shows as "XXX hit XXX for XXX".

Giantkin is enchanter DPS - not melee DPS. CoTB is Beastlord DPS - not caster DPS. Keeping all the pets alive is ranger DPS - not pet class dps.

Sure the damage does not read out in a parser but without the class there it would not happen. The only difference is it does not stack as easily.

 

[Waldoff]

Thanks for that Wold and Zae, that cools my jets quite a bit.

I'd still like to see a negative aggro component added to that quiver. If it had one, I'd use it in every group or raid, hands down.

Zaknefain SHOT DOWN!

 

[Mythryn]

As far as the proc spells go, they are going to have to have some pretty serious proc rates to be of any use other than mana drains. The SK one is cute, but not worth a spot on my spell bar currently, since voice of kaezul is click and forget, instead of click and have it wear off and use a lot of mana yay. The CLR/PAL one would be worthwhile if it didn't have the negative agro component, since clerics have ways to control agro, and paladins only want to gain agro.

 

[Severien]

We should still get a floating bow pet that shoots arrows. Just for the sheer awesome of it, regardless of its DPS.

 

[Eustace]

I always think its funny when people only count the DPS that shows as "XXX hit XXX for XXX".

Giantkin is enchanter DPS - not melee DPS. CoTB is Beastlord DPS - not caster DPS. Keeping all the pets alive is ranger DPS - not pet class dps.

Sure the damage does not read out in a parser but without the class there it would not happen. The only difference is it does not stack as easily.

I agree with you there Woldaff. Buff DPS is only going to show up through people who are doing the DPS, but the real source of it is the buffer. Buffs make me do more DPS, even though it's basically on-loan for the duration of the buff or patience of the person casting it

 

[vistachiri]

I don't know about other pet class players, but I will keep my pet alive if possible, because it takes so long to get him buffed up again. Sha's Mending is a 3 second cast for less than 2k heal, recast 10 seconds. Add in the time it takes to /assist back on mob, one can see that the amount I heal will significantly impact my dps. With mages I would expect the manna impact to be significant too.

I can see this spell making Ranjahs "required" for many encournters. Amicii has not had a Ranger in most raids for a while and it has not been a huge problem. But this addition can make Rangers a class that we will not want to leave out.

It would be a significant impact if we could cast it when we needed it. Currently it is not.

Also pet classes, you need to be asking clerics to death save your pets if you're that concerned about survivability. It's quite useful and I've watched many a pet bar bounce back up to 100%.

That's odd, because with a 5% between tils and DB I sure as hell haven't seen it go off much. Comparing DB to a rune in terms of survivability is fucking silly. Especially when pets have more buff slots than you can fill.