Oh and why do we feel so passionate about it? Probably due to if any of your ideas got implemented (Your real ideas not your +15% XP that you threw in to make your absolutely batshit crazy ideas seem a tiny bit more valid) it would probably be the death of the server and none of us want to see this happen SoD is amazing and you just have no clue what it takes to make a game like this work.
Suggestions for Fixing Unnecessary Muflation
- Thread starter eqjenius
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You'd probably get people just disagreeing, but for one you started this off of a topic that had yelly people on both sides to begin with, and two:
+ lots of words is a good combination to get people in a yelly mood or to get them to completely skip over your posts. I've done it too. Actually I think I did this a lot, and I think I still do this. Shit.
Silosobi
Dalayan Pious Diety
I thoroughly explained why each of your arguments are terrible. You ignored my post. You piss people off because you ignore all the legitimate replies explaining why your ideas dont work, and go on acting as though you are our savior, and just cant figure out why people dont agree with you.
This is my last post in this thread. Not only are you clueless about what this game needs, but you have an uncanny ability to completely ignore reasonable, thorough, and unoffensive explanations of how/why your ideas are bad.
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Apologies for the arrogance and wordiness. I'll try to cut down on both, although I can't guarantee success.
It's true I haven't responded to every post in the thread yet, but I've hardly ignored you or your legitimate replies:
And when someone posted a better idea than the one I had:
If you still choose to feel ignored, I'm not sure I know what to say to you, but I'll continue to try and respond to your arguments. There are a couple of posters I've intended to respond to earlier in the thread, I just haven't responded yet because their arguments requires a more dedicated response on my part.
It's true I haven't responded to every post in the thread yet, but I've hardly ignored you or your legitimate replies:
You've got a point there. I don't have a response to that one yet. But I'll work on it.
And when someone posted a better idea than the one I had:
If you still choose to feel ignored, I'm not sure I know what to say to you, but I'll continue to try and respond to your arguments. There are a couple of posters I've intended to respond to earlier in the thread, I just haven't responded yet because their arguments requires a more dedicated response on my part.
Rari
Game Master
Uninformed opinions offend the playerbase in general. Defending uninformed opinions stubbornly is not how you play the forum game. This whole thing started because you didn't agree with the Grupo decision, and you're just trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill.
Without further ado, the on topic point-by-point:
The discussion on 'solutions' for ringers is an old one. And there have been better suggestions than this that were also fail.
God... I hate agreeing with Draeos. Dammit, look what you made me do.
Without further ado, the on topic point-by-point:
This would be stupidly exploitable. It is your responsibility to inform whoever you share with if you're on Dragon/Giant... not that hard. If they screw you, that is unfortunate for you and I'm sure you will want to rethink letting that person use your accounts. This boils down to personal responsibility, but your solution is a nightmare.eqjenius said:
Leeching isn't a terrible problem that needs to be solved by making exping a pain in the ass. So I make a macro that pauses and casts a spell ever 10 minutes. Look, I've beaten your "solution" and I only have to push a button once every hour.
Your proposal for limiting IP connections would block most people from using their accounts. That includes you, eqjenius. I myself have logged onto my GM from 3-4 IPs tonight alone. You have no idea what you're talking about.
The discussion on 'solutions' for ringers is an old one. And there have been better suggestions than this that were also fail.
Oh yes. More exp for everyone. That'll really close the gap.
God... I hate agreeing with Draeos. Dammit, look what you made me do.
Allielyn
*Pony*
I'm going to chime in here to say that I actually think the explock on a guestlocked account is a AWESOME idea.
The rest of it I am not so sure about, but it's been covered pretty well here.
Whether or not this guy's other ideas are fabulous, I'm happy to see that somebody at least has the balls to try to think of an idea and suggest it, rather than just staring at the server thinking 'gosh I wish something could be done about this but. . . . I can't think of anything, and if I could I wouldn't want to risk being flamed.'
Since when did personal attacks become okay in this forum?
The rest of it I am not so sure about, but it's been covered pretty well here.
Whether or not this guy's other ideas are fabulous, I'm happy to see that somebody at least has the balls to try to think of an idea and suggest it, rather than just staring at the server thinking 'gosh I wish something could be done about this but. . . . I can't think of anything, and if I could I wouldn't want to risk being flamed.'
Since when did personal attacks become okay in this forum?
Tarutao
Staff Emeritus
Okay... if you want anyone to take you seriously, you should include your in-game main character's name.
The problem I see with explock on a guestlocked account is that most people will instantly stop using guestlock, because most people don't hand out their infos to people they don't trust. Then all the convenience guestlock gave the staff, allowing them to not have to deal with the deletion issues and whatnot, is right back to what it was before guestlock came about in the first place.
Thade
DINOSAUR THADE
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jew_nose_it
Dalayan Master
WTF I thought he was Fell all this time!
Ok now I'm confused...
Ok now I'm confused...
Allielyn
*Pony*
Either they will stop using guestlock and then be VERY careful who they give out their info to, because it cannot be guaranteed to be protected,
Or they will use guestlock and the characters will still be used as buffbots and ringers but they won't get exp for them.
Both of these results are agreeable to me.
The thing is most people already are very careful about who they give their info to, for a variety of reasons already touched in these bad threads (potential faction hits, being left at char select, etc) and if an explock were to go in with guestlock, I'm willing to bet most people are going to feel comfortable to take it off for the xp they get while their friends play them.
What makes it so easy to say, 'well you didn't use guest lock, you're sol about the deleted whatever' as it is right now and not have anyone raise issue with it, is that there is absolutely no reason not to use guestlock. If you put an explock on a guestlocked char, you're suddenly incentivising not using guestlock. Issues will come up with deleted items much more often, and everytime one does you then have to either tell them that they're sol, and get a backlash each time, or take it once again on a case by case basis, which if I understand correctly was the whole thing guestlock was trying to avoid in the first place.
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Allielyn
*Pony*
Staff did not reimburse items as a general rule before guestlock. Guestlock was not meant as a means by which players can whore out info without repurcussion, but just a layer of protection that players could look for in case info needed to be shared for a specific reason.
For instance, it could help in such a situation as having another guildie bot you for an evening so you don't cripple your raid when you need to take care of an emergency.
It's also a nice way of protecting those who want to help other guildies by allowing their character to be used as a buffbot.
The limited number of players on this server means that sometimes it's VERY helpful to be able to share information with others, but the longstanding GM policy has been that players are responsible for their own stuff. The guestlock is a great way to allow players a level of protection in these instances.
There's really no reason that players *need to* be able to gain exp when being used as a ringer or toted along for buffs.
Again, pairing explock with guestlock will not prevent your friends from leveling you. But it may limit how many 'friends' have access to your information. And that's OK.
For instance, it could help in such a situation as having another guildie bot you for an evening so you don't cripple your raid when you need to take care of an emergency.
It's also a nice way of protecting those who want to help other guildies by allowing their character to be used as a buffbot.
The limited number of players on this server means that sometimes it's VERY helpful to be able to share information with others, but the longstanding GM policy has been that players are responsible for their own stuff. The guestlock is a great way to allow players a level of protection in these instances.
There's really no reason that players *need to* be able to gain exp when being used as a ringer or toted along for buffs.
Again, pairing explock with guestlock will not prevent your friends from leveling you. But it may limit how many 'friends' have access to your information. And that's OK.
So, this is what I'm going off of here. Maybe the rationale behind it has changed since then idk.
I don't think anyone in their right mind would do what was done with grupo on their main. Unless this is a sudden plague spreading across sod that I'm not aware of, I think that was a pretty unique circumstance. All I'm saying is, the bulk of the people that use guestlock will stop if it's paired with an explock, and that will just cause more crap that would have to get dealt with.
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Rari
Game Master
By disincentivizing guestlock by pairing it with explock, a useful tool to help protect shared accounts (that active players are finally starting to use on a regular basis) would be rendered useless. For the sake of the players, I think not adding a penalty to guestlock that would make it moot would be preferable to keeping active players from sharing their information (somewhat) safely.
Active players would either continue to share their accounts without guestlock or they wouldn't share them at all (since there would be very limited reasons for them to want to share their info with xp taken away.) Thus, this would only penalize active players, the ones most likely to use guestlock. Orphaned bots are generally not guestlocked.
tl;dr: People generally share their toons (with the exception of buffbots) to get quests done and or with the expectation exp. If they couldn't do this with guestlock, they just wouldn't use guestlock.
Active players would either continue to share their accounts without guestlock or they wouldn't share them at all (since there would be very limited reasons for them to want to share their info with xp taken away.) Thus, this would only penalize active players, the ones most likely to use guestlock. Orphaned bots are generally not guestlocked.
tl;dr: People generally share their toons (with the exception of buffbots) to get quests done and or with the expectation exp. If they couldn't do this with guestlock, they just wouldn't use guestlock.
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I don't see that my opinion is any more uninformed than anyone else's, but if you replace the word "uninformed" with "differing," then yeah, I can see your point.
Another poster already proposed a solution to this: to boot your character to server select if you attempt to engage a mob that your faction agrees with, just like it does if you try and delete an item from inventory. What do you think of this idea?
You may be right. Do you think that AFK leeching isn't a problem, or that the proposed solution isn't viable? Do you have any better ideas in mind?
It's true I don't have a networking certification, although I wonder why GMs administer IP bans if IPs have no reliability of identifying a computer terminal. Can you enlighten?
Your scenario is more likely than the earlier one which proposed that if guest-locked characters were also xp locked, people would simply stop sharing their accounts.
Still, there are plenty of reasons to still use an xp locked character, primarily being that they would enable you to tackle encounters or mobs in the game which you otherwise could not. I imagine friends and guild members would still allow each other to access the unlocked toon, but people you don't know or trust would not be leveling up your character.
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