Proposed Monk Changes

Personally I thought the old monk could've used a dps bump, nothing drastic. Personally though, I liked the niche we fell into. Kinda low end dps, but still ok. Distant 4th tank, but still able to ramp tank, raidsave tank, etc. I love pulling, but there isn't much of this game at all that needs any real splitting, and most of the game could literally be pulled by anyone. With the changes, I can't tell that pulling has changed much personally...some say it has, but idk. Dps has been increased, but the total removal of being anything special at all tankwise, has kinda killed our identity imo. If there is no pulling what makes us any different than any other dps class right now?

If this system is what we're gonna have though, why not just use flying kick instead of round? Is there a reason for otherwise? Is force of body gonna change?
 
So I'm sure this might have been brought up...

Force of Body is a worthless Tome: Discuss.

It would be nice to have something useful. I mean by my count we have had a VERY slight dps bump... lost 10% avoidance (wash I guess), and have had FK rendered useless, but made better than it was. Can this possibly be what was intended when this thing started?
 
I don't disagree with your suggestion on page 8.

I'd more like to see a means of making monks useful to groups/raids. As it stands they are by far the most expendable class in any given situation. Really other than at very situational times where an SK can't split, monks in a raid are a detriment because of the loss of what really any other class brings to the table. I could easily argue for any other class getting a monks raid slot.

Am I wrong on this? I would love for someone to convince me otherwise, because I don't see any changes comming to the current situation. Im seriously considering punting a toon I have sunk like 7-8 years in, and in all likelyhood SoD if that were to happen.
 
In my experience, monks do high dps, can still offtank, are still useful pulling often enough that everyone wants one around.

This may not be consistent throughout the tiers though.
 
Not making any assumptions here, but one, how recent is your experience, and two, how much experience do you have outside of highest tier lately? (not taking a shot at all, genuinely curious, as I've been under the impression that you've been high tier for quite awhile now and also took a break for awhile.) With the avoidance bonus nerf we have no more capability to offtank than other equally geared non-squishy classes. Our dps is better with the changes, but not a ton. We're still the lowest of the dps classes when everyone is equally geared, etc. As far as pulling, there is stuff to pull on this server, but not much at all really that an sk couldn't pull better due to being able to take more hits. Over half the stuff, if someone outside these two classes knows the pulls, literally anyone could pull it with the right tagger. I asked what I asked, because yeah, the top 5ish monks you're around do massive dps, but so does pretty much anyone top 5ish for any class, and yeah, those guys can tank ridiculous stuff, but it's kinda the same argument I brought up on with the whole shaman debate about using Zurkka a.k.a Superman, as the example to say shamen (sp?) were fine (which for the most part they are, just using him is not an argument for that...)
 
I am actively playing again. This is/was my experience as a progressed through the tiers.

But, no I dont have much experience with lower-tier monks post these specific changes I never really remembered monks being the worst dps class though, am I wrong?
 
Silosobi said:
I am actively playing again. This is/was my experience as a progressed through the tiers.

But, no I dont have much experience with lower-tier monks post these specific changes I never really remembered monks being the worst dps class though, am I wrong?
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i never was but i also was one of the most exped/charmed/gear amongst my peers so maybe that skews peoples perceptions.
 
If your monk is doing suboptimal DPS stack more bane damage and you will parse near or at the top.
 
I've probably always been average to above average exp/gear wise on my tier. I've always parsed, and generally just get fairly accurate readings from boss pulls becasue of pulling. I've also generally tried to maximize my DPS during these fights. I sort of assume most of the time the other people I am parsing are not trying to eek out the absolute best DPS they can becasue I assume most people are lazy (you know what assumptions do).

I found that in tiers 6-8 my monk was near the top of the DPS list (though I was probably better geared and average EXP at the time). As t9 started it seemed as though my DPS increase leveled off significantly while everyone elses continued scaling up. Gear was slowly equalizing and perhaps its just due to what we were killing, but probably more just because of spread out and low selection of weapon and haste upgrades. This has continued through 9-10-and 11. Casters and hybrids got murk spells, and runics. Rangers started getting real bows etc etc. My weapon upgrades were pretty small in comparrison, because thats what the game offeres. Not to mention a few weapons for melee that are insane but not for monks (OG spear etc). Of course I was never able to get elab peices for either ToT weapon.

Have yet to find too many viable options in the way of bane damage. I'll have to look more thoroughly there. Tried and have mod and gear swaps.. not as much as Id like but I get whats available and I can get.

What I seem to find at my current tier the DPS waterfall goes something like this Wizard, Necro/Rogue, Ranger/Mages, Beastlord, Monk, Bard (though I think bards could out DPS monks on a single boss fight if they really wanted to).

Then if you look at relative tankyness I agree it is better than any other non-tank class ( beastlords your pet stance is not as good as you think), but that degree of difference is pretty much moot when you have a raid mob beating on you and a ton of heals getting tossed your way. Meaning because of how fast you are dieing an equally geared bst, ranger, rogue... and to slightly lesser extent bard is not really going to let your healers already in "oh shit the tank died mode" to smash quick heal any less.

So lets take pulling out of the equation. Where is a raid not losing out by adding my toon to it?

Basically I feel like a terrible toon. Perhaps it is just me that is just terrible at my toon... I just don't see it. If its the latter at least there is a a chance of improvement. If its the former, whats the point.

Edit** Don't mean to sound like a whiney bitch.. but basically I am being one so whatevs
 
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Could I see fomelo? The 4 bane damage from bounties can be a pretty huge dps boost for any meele. As with any weapon based class, there are going to be points where you seem weak, and then other times when you got some fancy new thing when you seem really good. I've definitely seen monks in the t12-t13 game do some really nice dps, t10-12 may just be one of the weaker points. (try being a wizard or mage in tot)
 
iRtehTisukii said:
I've also generally tried to maximize my DPS during these fights.
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I dont really know what your doing but on quite a few parses i see a monk parsing very well(above other melees). I know that our monks/other melee dps use bane damage items and that significantly increases their damage output.
 
Im bad at links. Name is Tisukii.

Also I have swaps to get +20 h2h mod, lose 2% haste, and take out off-hand.
 
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Lleoc said:
i never was but i also was one of the most exped/charmed/gear amongst my peers so maybe that skews peoples perceptions.
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This has kinda been my experience also, but as I get further up the tiers and am surrounded by more motivated players (read: equally geared, tomed, etc.), and suddenly am not ahead of everyone else, I've gone from parsing near the top of every fight to near the bottom of the dps. It might have to do with what Solo said about a certain spot in the tiers, idk.

As far as the bane dmg thing goes, this very well is probably a/the solution. To this point though, I've been resistant to having to swap out things like a sorrow belt for a crappy one for bane dmg. Guess I better get over that.
 
Yes I would love to see bane damage on armor removed and melee damage scaled properly instead. It's a bandaid solution that causes huge itemization problems and imbalances from zone to zone and mob to mob. It doesn't seem likely that such a thing will happen though.

The combo system as it stands did increase monk DPS and added a bit of utility so I guess it filled its purpose, despite all the problems people have with it. I like my monk more now and pre-combos but I know a lot of other people disagree.
 
I tend to parse in the fourth to seventh spot on my guild raids (t9-10) but I usually chalk that up to being a combination of a) doing my best to get the dps in, b) tomes and gear vs other dps, c) non-box'ed and d) of course, who's attending.\

I would say my biggest gripe with the monk class is that the class seems to be losing its identity. After the resist overhaul (I now have four bags of resist gear rotting in the bank that I rarely see a reason to bother with anymore.) we lost our general effectiveness as the non-tank for "oh sh*t" situations and the weight restriction was removed, which I consider both positive and negative... so we get combos that no other class gets but it seems that the majority of the time it is no different than what we were doing before other than the dps boost. It just seems that all of the quirks that made the class interesting to me before have slowly been stripped away... leaving me with what?

Mostly, a character I refuse to give up on due to the time already invested.
 
I feel that monks generate a bit too much aggro now. When i play my monk Lowako in exp groups and im not playing a t12 tank, i have to flop after every combo or Lowako becomes the new tank. This would be fine and dandy except that it gives assistance penalty, which really sucks. If the solution to this is to just not dps combo or turn off attack and afk it should be looked at a bit
 
I believe you'll only get the assistance penalty on blues or lbs, I might be wrong on whites. Also on blues, if you do all your flopping before 50% you will never get the penalty.

It's still a bunch of agro I'd love to have had when we were the 4th tank. (I personally really don't mind the agro at all (actually outside of raiding I like it), but I can vouch for it at least)

To force myself to keep things short, I agree with the loss of identity thing, and I agree with Tisukii that unless there is a specific spot that needs a puller and one of the many other people that can pull is not around, you're probably better off bringing almost anything else, assuming equal tomes and gear. If something does actually get tweaked again with monks, I personally hope agro is not the highest priority.
 
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