I'm just saying that pretty much any "high level character" can solo all of high-keep by themselves except for dimmi who is busy at orc fort for some reason.
So who cares?
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Paladin agro (yes everyone knows it's horrible)
- Thread starter Atada
- Start date
I'm just saying that pretty much any "high level character" can solo all of high-keep by themselves except for dimmi who is busy at orc fort for some reason.
So who cares?
I don't think being able to solo High Keep was the problem but being able to get instant/unresistable agro on any number of mobs that agro'd you was. I guess it didn't fit into the scope of the game at the time.
Daffie
Dalayan Pious Diety
This type of thing is not the norm and should be dealt with in a different way. It is game balance related, not specifically class related. Mudflattion issues are at the heart of your posts problem. Go with any T13 warrior to High Keep and tell me they can't pull the whole zone, AE agro, and still get healed without losing agro. (Would they even need heals?) They can DPS everything down too... Hell, a T13 monk with using whirlwind would do the same thing... Could a T13 cleric do it too?
Cambrai said:
I argue that Paladin spells are not instant (other than LoH and HoP AAs.) Warriors and monks can currently draw instant agro with their AE styles and those are actually instant agro (just not instant huge agro. 5 seconds after engage though...)
donfolstar3
Dalayan Master
Yes.
The only minor tweek I would suggest to those great suggestions is instead of making a Flame of Light line just change "Divine Stun" to "Divine Light" or "Divine Flame" or [something] which would be a more powerful version of Flame of Light. Two birds, one stone.
Retooling /s 4 Guardian Blade to be the anti-Althuna's Conduit (i.e. severe hit to healing for a longer lasting +aggro/avoidance stance) would also be nice, but Bango's suggestions are all more high priority things.
Zapple
Dalayan Elder
I could duo it using Bango as a box including the basement dungeon but that's the #1 paladin and #5 mage right there so it's not really a thing for most dudes.
Yeah, "instant" was a bad choice of words on my part. Paladins definitely have a cast time on their heals.
I am curious if a warrior/monk could keep agro on 15 or so mobs if they had a healer that did moderate healing. I'm just not familiar with the stances enough to know if PC WW actually does hit every mob in melee range or just up to a certain number and if the damage they do is enough to keep above healer agro over a prolonged fight.
Monk ww stance hits 4 at a time, but I was never able to accurately tell how well it switches between mobs to hold more than 4 down. I think I've held down maybe 8 or 9 at once in Kaesora duoing with my shaman, but my shaman could take hits well enough until I picked up anything that split off onto him, which happened at least occasionally. WW stance was never really all that effective outside of duoing since you sacrifice double and triple attacks to spread out to up to 4 mobs with single attacks. If you have anyone doing significant dps, it's not hard to snag a mob off of a ww-ing monk, especially if they're hitting something other than the assist target (rains, aoes, terrible people, etc.).
robopirateninja
Staff Emeritus
I did 2 codexes on tyrone/bounta bringing any old shit healer who was in athica and usually they were worse than no help at all with their heal messages made of lies
Nebi
Dalayan Pious Diety
Nothing like this will ever get you any help.
A tier 10/11 paladin will still have aggro issues against a tier anything shadow knight. All of the current staff will just ignore you and nothing will happen.
You need to live with the following:
- People who DO NOT play paladins think paladin aggro is some amazing thing.
- People who play shadow knights complain that paladins get aoe aggro when in fact a shadow knight can tank better aoe than a paladin. (for a longer period of time)
The dead honest truth is quit playing your paladin and re-roll a warrior or shadow knight. You were suckered into the class because you thought paladins could tank, dps, and heal. You cant tank unless the entire world manages their aggro (something no other tank class has to worry about), you cant ever dps unless its an undead and we all know that this server fucks an undead grinding spot the moment it becomes too pro paladin (IE High Keep, undead caves in remnants). and you cant really heal unless you obliterate your tanking ability.
In conclusion sorry that you wasted playing your paladin thinking it was going to be a good tanking class. The staff has other things to worry about than the 4 5 people who still play paladins (like letting beastlords have bunnies).
A tier 10/11 paladin will still have aggro issues against a tier anything shadow knight. All of the current staff will just ignore you and nothing will happen.
You need to live with the following:
- People who DO NOT play paladins think paladin aggro is some amazing thing.
- People who play shadow knights complain that paladins get aoe aggro when in fact a shadow knight can tank better aoe than a paladin. (for a longer period of time)
The dead honest truth is quit playing your paladin and re-roll a warrior or shadow knight. You were suckered into the class because you thought paladins could tank, dps, and heal. You cant tank unless the entire world manages their aggro (something no other tank class has to worry about), you cant ever dps unless its an undead and we all know that this server fucks an undead grinding spot the moment it becomes too pro paladin (IE High Keep, undead caves in remnants). and you cant really heal unless you obliterate your tanking ability.
In conclusion sorry that you wasted playing your paladin thinking it was going to be a good tanking class. The staff has other things to worry about than the 4 5 people who still play paladins (like letting beastlords have bunnies).
Nebi
Dalayan Pious Diety
http://forum.shardsofdalaya.com/showthread.php?t=26181&page=8
another thread where people give ideas and try to get something done. ignored like the rest of them by the staff (except for Zaela who said yeah I want to help you guys out... on second thought fuck you guys)
another thread where people give ideas and try to get something done. ignored like the rest of them by the staff (except for Zaela who said yeah I want to help you guys out... on second thought fuck you guys)
cian2
Dalayan Master
this post is a little sensational. lets be honest here, basically everything in the game pre-overgrowth was killed with a paladin as the main tank (bango) and that was before runic2 was changed. it is possible. paladins are entirely viable.
they just pale in comparison to the insane scaling of shadowknights. jraul, xach, versul, zorr, any endgame shadowknight can just do spam lifetap for an entire raid fight and heal themselves for as much as a cleric will and have zero aggro problems.
also, SK r2 worked incredibly well with ae damage, which was a huge thing when i exped. ranger runic2, necro runic1, whirlwind shadowstaff, abstraction, whatever. i fondly remember pulling all 4 talon packs and both masters, hitting versul r2 and my rangers r2 and doing 20,000 dps but alas, those days are behind us. these days, it's still fairly useful in normal situations and also, they are better ae tanks than paladins just based on tab-terroring, very easy to do. paladins can do ae blind and stun every 36 seconds for ~1400 ae threat (no r2), sks do double that with one terror.
if anything, paladins are bad because they don't scale well, because their threat never catches up to dps, in fact it only gets harder, meaning they have less time to actually use their tools: self heals, hot, whatever. if they COULD heal, ie. if heals gave aggro, it'd be a whole different ballgame. you could literally fix the class imo with that one change.
should do it and see how it goes. whats the worst that could happen. anyway I always thought paladin aggro should be slow to build up and unbreakable when they have a ton. healing aggro (for paladins only of course, dont fuck everyone else) would go a long way towards making them viable. plus it would add another interesting facet to their class.
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Since this is resurrected again, I'm going to throw out a few things. First of all, I main a paladin because I love almost everything about the class. I didn't get screwed or tricked into playing a sub-par warrior or SK, so the suggestion to reroll can take a flying leap. Secondly, yes some of the problem is blasting classes not using their head conk spell or attempting to not overblast, but that is NOT the whole problem. I shouldn't need to be a top 5 paladin, to have a Jyre or 50 bajillion tomes to hold agro in a normal grouping situation. I've seen a BARD take my agro from simply dual wielding. Or a cleric from healing, and Althuna forbid I even have a druid in group since apparently those poor suckers can take agro merely by existing. And no, I'm not bad. I'm using my AA stun which I have at max refresh, aoe blind, single target blind, and stuns if it's not somewhere the bump is a problem.
This has been gone over again and again with a lot of suggestions, but I have an extremely simple solution. Make the aoe blind have a nearly non-existent refresh. I spend a lot of fights with multiple mobs praying for that button to come back up. I'm not asking for an extreme class rebalance, nor do I think we should get more mitigation, out-agro an SK on single targets etc. This wouldn't require any serious examination of AA's, a new tome, or anything complicated. I just want that damn blind available when my squishies are getting a beating. That's all, really.
This has been gone over again and again with a lot of suggestions, but I have an extremely simple solution. Make the aoe blind have a nearly non-existent refresh. I spend a lot of fights with multiple mobs praying for that button to come back up. I'm not asking for an extreme class rebalance, nor do I think we should get more mitigation, out-agro an SK on single targets etc. This wouldn't require any serious examination of AA's, a new tome, or anything complicated. I just want that damn blind available when my squishies are getting a beating. That's all, really.
cian2
Dalayan Master
would not recommend using divine stun, it doesn't do any aggro. reducing ae blind cooldown is a fairly interesting option though, it'd bump them back up in ae aggro (which they deserve) and also improve single target substantially by allowing more blind overwriting.
obviously divine stun is a strong candidate for a buff too, it's silly to have a ~30 point AA be essentially a tagging button. but rather than get bogged down in all the details, i think it'd be best to just add aggro back to paladin heals and see if anything else needs to be done after that.
obviously divine stun is a strong candidate for a buff too, it's silly to have a ~30 point AA be essentially a tagging button. but rather than get bogged down in all the details, i think it'd be best to just add aggro back to paladin heals and see if anything else needs to be done after that.
I am surprised at how bad you think divine stun is.... I have saved MT's millions of times using that button to stun the target when the tank was low (myself while tanking included). However I think it should still have some hate built into it.
Heals having aggro is the solution that needs to happen. End of story, stop the nerf bat, start the buff hammer. plskkthx.
very rarely do I have an issue holding agro over most people my teir and even some above my teir. in single or AE situations. Obv if Paladins pull more then 6 then of course paladins leave them selfs open to lose agro. About the only times I have a issue is when im boxing something else and that's minimal at best. Im t9 maybe things change more in higher tier idk I cant speak for everyone here.
Dinadass
Dalayan Pious Diety
Most DPS classes increase their dps by ~50% from t9 to t13, and pally aggro does not come close to keeping up.
Obscenitor
Dalayan Elder
Divine Stun has two uses. Interrupting abilities/spells, and when tagging multiple mobs. An in combat mob does not actually get stunned by Divine Stun. Not to mention the fact that almost all raid bosses are immune to stun.
This is not true and why many pallys misuse their stuns I have noticed chain stunning a mob is not something that can be done ... tag you mob with blind wait for it to close enough to time your Divine Stun or any stun for that matter to land right as it get to you and you stun it for a good 1 second maybe little longer with diving stun this helps or hurts healers depending if they know this.
Also if you wait about a spell tick (6 seconds?) maybe 10 seconds after your first stun to cast another you will see your stuns are greatly more effective (ife the mob can be stuned) and your healers will love you.