Paladin agro (yes everyone knows it's horrible)

SKs suck.

SK vs Paladin is a dangerous road to go down, if you play an SK. I wouldn't recommend it.

I'll stick with my suggestion from a few years ago for this annual thread: add an aggro modifier to yaulp 4. make divine stun do aggro. remove knockback on stuns.
 
SKs have zero AOE aggro, something that cannot be underfrickenstated.

I'll take the word of you t8+ people that your aggro is not the same as an SK, but 99% of the game paladins are an easier class to play than SKs with a ton'oh'shit buttons to mash.

A non-asleep paladin can save the group how often with LoH? A paladin can grab aggro how easily on a pack of mobs that is nearly all the grinding aspect of getting to that loftly t10.

I'm not opposed to beefing paladin aggro, but SKs should get an AOE to compensate.

Balance is an incredibly difficult matter, but consider AOE aggro a factor that is useful for 99% of all pulls and fights and the fact that SKs dont have any.

SKs have veil, a small AoE nuke, and multiple terrors. Cast 1 or 2 terrors on each mob, cast veil, do small pbaoe, cycle through targets occasionally casting terrors. SKs are really good at picking up adds too, much better than paladins. Saying that SKs have 0 AoE aggro is silly, yes you do have to work for it, but i think working for a little AoE aggro is a fair trade for having it be literally impossible for someone to pull a single mob off of you as long as you push buttons
 
Just like with paladins you can't really use Runic 2 as an arguement. The game shouldnt be balanced around 1 super high end spell.

Sk Ae aggro isnt great I would say they can somewhat control 2-3 mobs but its terribly ineficient.
 
I think the heart of the matter is this: when our SK Is tanking and happens to die, I'm not able to step right in and grab agro before half the raid dies whereas a war can just taunt and take over. Having our stun agro back and and heal agro would be a vast improvement to help the situation.
 
you just need to build aggro during the fight. perfectly viable.

where's manguadi when you need him? this is a real Just Be More Better type thread.

the main tank for the highest tier guild was a paladin. that's not to say paladins dont have their downfalls, the main one being that SKs are the most broken overpowered class in the game and most people don't know it, but a properly played paladin is pretty much just fine. i find that most people who play pallys dont know how to play it correctly. divine stun does absolutely nothing. stop using it. bashing is very important. you should be triple blinding. a runic2 triple blind is over four thousand threat. etc
 
I'll stick with my suggestion from a few years ago for this annual thread: add an aggro modifier to yaulp 4. make divine stun do aggro. remove knockback on stuns.

The first and second suggestion are just insulting that they even have to be asked for. Divine Stun eats up 20 some odd AAs for young naive paladins before they realize it is decent for tagging and little else. The gap between Zero aggro buff then Runic2 big'ol aggro buff is just lazy and wrong and should have been fixed long ago.

This all goes back to the glory days of broken ghot aggro which was mega-over-nerfed. Since then the server has had the misfortune of having some really amazing players with ridiculous gear who play Paladin obfuscating the suckage.

Paladins have inferior stances/mitigation. Paladins have a minor advantage to laughable disadvantage in regards to AoE Aggro in a post WW/Veil game. The only clear advantage Paladins have is the ability to rez dps after they pull aggro and die... which come to think of it you wouldn't need without a Paladin around.
 
I do build agro during the fight, my point Is I simply can't keep up with The DPS. For warriors This Is no problem because They can taunt and take agro anytime they want. They also have the advantage of best mitigation in the game. I'm not looking for equal mitigation, just for the ability to be able to pull some kind of decent agro - as I say again I believe giving back stun agro will help to fix that. Saying oh just use runic2 is silly since 95% of the paladins out there will never get it.
 
Just be better.


where's manguadi when you need him? this is a real Just Be More Better type thread.

Just be better.

If you're having issues with aggro and you're doing what you're supposed to be doing button-wise, it means that your DPS isn't doing what they're supposed to be doing button-wise. Wait to engage, use any of various aggro reducing abilities, stances, clickies...DPS in bursts instead of balls-out the whole time. In an off-tank situation if you're fighting a dragon as a tank but not tanking...throw an aggro-generator on it from time to time to stay ahead of the healers on the hate list.

It gets pretty old seeing "Wahhh our DPS got nerfed" followed up by "Wahhh I keep getting aggro" (not something directed at this thread, just sayin)

Just be better.
 
It gets pretty old seeing "Wahhh our DPS got nerfed" followed up by "Wahhh I keep getting aggro" (not something directed at this thread, just sayin)

Just be better.

Different classes generate different amounts of aggro per damage depending on a lot of factors. Monks generate a ton of aggro for the amount of damage actually being done, and our aggro drop mechanic causes exp penalties if we use it to avoid tanking. Fix the FD assist penalty and I'd never complain about monk aggro again.
 
Also, to have any hope of hovering under the SKs aggro, you need a really good 2h sword. I was lucky enough to raid with shadow knights who seldom died while tanking, but stance 9 should help you. Just be ready to switch back to sword/shield/defensive stance within one round or...splat.
 
Also, to have any hope of hovering under the SKs aggro, you need a really good 2h sword. I was lucky enough to raid with shadow knights who seldom died while tanking, but stance 9 should help you. Just be ready to switch back to sword/shield/defensive stance within one round or...splat.

Honestly, we shouldn't have to stance to come close to other knights agro... Just like the other tanks, we should have the stamina available to defensive style when we are tanking...
 
Get rid of Spell Casting Reinforcement AA, replace it with Spell Casting Subtlety. Have it do the same thing as it does for sk's - 2/5/10% aggro increase. Increase the duration of SSS and Champion of Althuna so nobody misses the SCR.
 
Get rid of Spell Casting Reinforcement AA, replace it with Spell Casting Subtlety. Have it do the same thing as it does for sk's - 2/5/10% aggro increase. Increase the duration of SSS and Champion of Althuna so nobody misses the SCR.

If you change an AA for ONE class, you have to change it for ALL classes that share it due to client limitations. So this isn't on the plate for atleast the time till 3.0 is done.
 
Prefacing this with the fact that I don't play this game anymore, so keep in mind that none of my suggestions bear any hidden agendas. I am posting this simply due to the huge investment I put into this game and the Paladin class.

My opinion of easy fixes for Paladins, in order of importance:


Add aggro back to (at the very least) self heals. As any Paladin knows all too well, in EXP groups or Raids, we find ourselves opting out of using our self heals in lieu of casting blind(s)/stun to maintain aggro (becomes less noticable when you acquire Runic 2 but then you have serious mana issues on any long fight or in an EXP group). This is a glaring issue because self heals and ghots are really the bread and butter of the Paladin class, and pretty much always have been ever since our AOE aggro niche was marginalized.

Create a new Yaulp spell line akin to Runic 2. This is an obvious one here, and honestly I am surprised it was not put into the game when I first suggested it to the Dev team. There is really no reason that this would shift the balance between Knights at the lower tiers where people traditionally view Paladins as being better than SKs (despite that not being true). If you maintain the same burst aggro potential to mana cost ratio then it will provide all Paladins a means to snap up aggro more quickly if the MT goes down, while not providing anywhere near the means to consistently generate more aggro than a Warrior or SK over a given fight due to mana issues.

Make blinds un-resistable. This is a no-brainer to me. I can't think of any reasons why Paladins should not have a consistent and effective way to maintain aggro on magic resistant/immune mobs.

Tweak flame of light. I was quite happy when Zaela said that she was changing the flame of light spell. However, as just about any Paladin will tell you, its use is almost entirely limited to magic immune mobs, and the damage is marginal at best. The result is that it is almost never utilized. My suggestion would be to increase the damage and add more ranks (similar to SK spears). This is essentially an idea that I had of giving Paladins 'smite' style spells. To balance this so not every Shadowknight starts whining about us treading on their shoes, restrict the spells to only be cast when equipping a two handed weapon.

With all that being said, none of this would change anything about the intended hierarchy for tanks.

Shadowknights:
Best single target aggro
Second best AOE aggro
Second best mitigation
Second best self-sustain (not by much)
Second best DPS while tanking
Second best raid utility (ability to pull in a snap or provide wipe recovery, solid buffs)

Warriors:
Second best single target aggro
Worst AOE aggro (not by much)
Best mitigation
Worst self-sustain (no spells)
Best DPS while tanking
Worst raid utility (no spells, although some of their stances seem neat on paper)

Paladin:
Worst single target aggro
Best AOE aggro (consistent)
Worst mitigation
Best self-sustain (again, not by much compared to a fully AA'd Shadowknight's lifetaps)
Worst DPS while tanking
Best raid utility (ghot, single target heals, best buff)
 
I think everyone is looking at the paladin "problem" the wrong way. Currently dps are just doing entirely too much damage which generates too much aggro. I can remember back in the day when i was in tier nine paladins were pretty much the best tank for everything. How many high end sks were floating around? If i had to take an educated guess it would be three.

What has happened over the years since tier nine was current content pretty much contributed to making paladins seem essentially useless in exp and even on raid targets that require a little more dps than the typical tier nine raid encounter. If everything was just tuned down to better simulate tier nine difficulty, the paladin feeling useless problem would be non existant. If dps classes only did 500 dps at the high end then they would be able to easily hold aggro. Nobody would complain if they had to exp or raid with a paladin and everybody would be happy.

I know it's not just me that sees this outrageous problem that rogue devs like dev-marza have created with the huge power curve that has happened from making new content with new items as rewards for beating the content. Recently the current dev team has made great strides to try to restore the power curve to be much closer in line with the old tier nine items and when they are done making the adjustments paladins will then again be able to tank exp/raids without fearing that they have to push more than 1-2 buttons at a time.

Even in the current state of darkness there are many rays of hope starting to pierce through exposing whats just on the other side and every once in a while we can see what is on the other side... tier nine paladins returning to their former glory.
 
A lot of paladin spells aren't effected by focuses the same way as shadowknights though. Damage inc 8 isn't going to do nearly as much for a paladin as it would for an SK. Nothing really makes blinds or stuns better. Maybe control enhancement could increase the aggro they generate or something.
 
1. Add aggro to ghots / heals. Why it was taken away in the first place has always been a mystery to me.

This is what I remember when this nerf went in. There was some high tier paladins that went into High Keep and pulled multiple floors. if they HoT'd or self healed they could get agro on every single mob. if you stunned you only get agro on 6 or so. So with the hate they got from heals (same amount as when healers cast) plus some stunning, they could pretty much keep all the skeletons on them when the rest of the group aoe'd.

It's been a while so I could be off but I think this was the jest of it.
 
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