Paladin agro (yes everyone knows it's horrible)

as a t9 pally my spell bar looks like this
1. Self heal
2. Refugee spell
3.DD Stun
4.AE Stun
5.AEblind.
6.Single Blind
7.Self heal
8.Runic 1

Again saying divine stun does nothing is completely wrong. Does it give agro? no. Does it actually stun the mob, yes it can stun on pull and it can stun IN COMBAT I have proven this today. Hell ifyou want ill group with you and show you the effect. Obv spamming divine stun does nothing every single time its used. You can clearly see stuns DO NOT stack by hitting a mob with divine stun then following up with regular stun. The Second stun ill have no effect. How ever if you wait 30seconds or so you can clearly see your stun work again. Divine stun is the same way and is not any different. This goes for the same as hitting a mob with regular stun and then following up with AE stun generally the mob that was hit with the initial stun will not be stuned where the rest generally will unless they resist or something stuipid.

donfolstar3 said:
I am not sure what possesses a man to adamantly defend a sub-par AA in the face of several of the best Paladins on the server. Divine Stun is a disappointing AA investment and could probably use a redo/boost if staff is serious about addressing Paladin aggro issues.
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And why do I defend the AA? because they are wrong on the mechanics, and I have proven that. What makes these pallys better then me? Gear? because that's about all they have on me you each complain about agro.. I have 0 complaints .. Again im only t9 I don't know what the t10 pallys issues are that I don't see in t9 but obv there has to be something. Im really not trying to be a dick but when I test and prove something to be correct then you keep blantently calling me a lier and not even seeing my find then that's just BS.
 
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Just to clarify, when I said "some small degree of skill" the "some", "small", and "degree" stacked to indicate just how very very very little, but tangibly more than the zero of mashing the same button, it is. However, it is infinitesimal and Daffie makes a very good point about freeing up spell gems.

Making blinds unresistable still feels like a bigger fix, but why not also fix stacking and AoE CD if devs are willing to take a look at blinds- amirite?

Slayer90, I did not mean to say should automatically defer to anyone with better gear. I think a lot of the back and forth was two ships passing in the night- points that were not really in direct contention to one another. You are, I think, right about Divine Stun following the whole stun cooldown thing, but that is still a sub-par AA for the investment that could use a little love. Everyone is right and we can be best friends forever.
 
Aye it is a little subpar seeing how it generates no agro but it also has a lower cast time then any stun and mana free, and that it also Stuns Named mobs where they are immune to all others. So idk stunning a named and interrupting a melee round isn't to subpar in my book.
 
Maybe it isn't Divine Stun that is subpar, but the associated AA "Rush to Judgement". If your numbers are correct and Divine Stun only works if you wait 30 seconds then WTF IS THE POINT OF REDUCING THE CD? Maybe changing it to something like:

"Divine Light" each rank adds 50 damage and 150 hate to Divine Stun.

Having unresistable hate on a longer CD which would actually stun might be better, yeah?

Though making blinds unresistable and bringing back healing aggro seem like bigger deals. Just quickly comparing Blessing of Malath and Deflux a SK (chain casting) can regain about four times as many hps per BoM cooldown all the while generating hate and aggro. Kind of makes the whole self healing thing seem like a raw deal twice over. I may be way off base thinking that the Knights should be balanced in general while having distinct advantages (AoE/Healing v. Single target/FD/damage), but it sure feels like SKs have some strong inroads on Paladin "advantages" while Paladins have jack-all the other way.
 
Slayer90 said:
as a t9 pally my spell bar looks like this
1. Self heal
2. Refugee spell
3.DD Stun
4.AE Stun
5.AEblind.
6.Single Blind
7.Self heal
8.Runic 1
Click to expand...

Seems like basically the only difference is you have the refuge spell instead of using flame of light. What heals are you using? BoM and the heal from red sun mines?


Slayer90 said:
You can clearly see stuns DO NOT stack by hitting a mob with divine stun then following up with regular stun. The Second stun ill have no effect. How ever if you wait 30seconds or so you can clearly see your stun work again.
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Another thing I noticed is if you cast a stun, then bash successfully, the mob only stays stunned for the normal bash duration instead of the full stun duration. Almost like bash overwrites your stun. Call me crazy if no one else noticed this. Off topic though...


donfolstar3 said:
Having unresistable hate on a longer CD which would actually stun might be better, yeah?
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I use divine stun quite a bit when fighting casting mobs during xp. I would hate to see the cool down increase. Really, it is unresistable and it stuns the mob, how does it not piss mobs off something fierce???
 
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[I have 0 complaints .. Again im only t9 I don't know what the t10 pallys issues are that I don't see in t9 but obv there has to be something.[\QUOTE]

That's part of the point a number of the people have been making here, not just paladins. T9 is the breaking point because paladins don't scale well and DPS classes double their DPS post T9 and paladins simply can't keep up with their agro. In addition, mobs at this level resist AE blind a ton or are immune. Plenty of people have made their cases with plenty of solutions.

1. Malath
2. Taraztu
3. Single blind
4. Flame of Light
5. Refuge
6. Runic1
7. AE stun
8. AE blind
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Daffie said:
Seems like basically the only difference is you have the refuge spell instead of using flame of light. What heals are you using? BoM and the heal from red sun mines?
Another thing I noticed is if you cast a stun, then bash successfully, the mob only stays stunned for the normal bash duration instead of the full stun duration. Almost like bash overwrites your stun. Call me crazy if no one else noticed this. Off topic though...
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I use malath and I havent yet to get flames to drop so im using the lesser self heal.

So maybe the Stun system as a whole needs to be looked at. obvesiouly they don't want us to have the ability to chain stun a mob but bash should defintly not affect a stuns duration imo. Iv never noticed it but wouldn't surprise me if it did.
 
It takes so long to cast it usually gets interrupted so what's the point. Meanwhile that's time lost where we need to be spamming blinds to hold agro.
 
Atada said:
It takes so long to cast it usually gets interrupted so what's the point. Meanwhile that's time lost where we need to be spamming blinds to hold agro.
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I actually use ToV instead of remedy. The cast time is long, but unless I have mobs hitting me in the back or a ton of stuff on me, I can usually get a cast off. Kind of a derail as I posted my spell sets to show how changing the way blind overwrites worked would increase utilitiy.
 
There's been a great deal of discussion and solutions here. Can we get some input from a dev please? Thank you.
 
Paladins will always be lack luster when Warriors roam the world with OP weapons (Spirit Harvest) doing far more dmg, holding AoE aggro far better, mitigating dmg superior to a shield bearing tank, and healing 100% each melee hit/ riposte.

SKs are nice, but fall into a higher category of Paladin. Poor Paladins =(
All living in mighty Bango's shadow, because everyone uses him for justification to keep Paladins terrible.

[Edit]
I love Paladins in 6-man stuff. As a Cleric, having a Paladin HoT most/ all of the fight is fantastic. AoEs in general, especially magic based (since Paladin HoT mitigates 8% I believe) makes me love them, despite the fact I would drop them instantly in an exp group for a Warrior with Spirit Harvest + appropriate tier.
 
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So is it time to declare a time of death on this, the fifteenth unanswered "hey Paladins have some problems that need addressing", thread?

To reiterate for any passing vip who could still respond to these lingering issues:
1. So resistable - mediocre lvl 50 spell used endgame and blinds that do not land
2. Our secondary shtick (heals) does jack-shit for our primary shtick (holding aggro)
3. General dps/aggro lacking combined with not being King Shit of AoE Mountain anymore
 
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donfolstar3 said:
So is it time to declare a time of death on this, the fifteenth unanswered "hey Paladins have some problems that need addressing", thread?

To reiterate for any passing vip who could still respond to these lingering issues:
1. So resistable - mediocre lvl 50 spell used endgame and blinds that do not land
2. Our secondary shtick (heals) does jack-shit for our primary shtick (holding aggro)
3. General dps/aggro lacking combined with not being King Shit of AoE Mountain anymore
Click to expand...

I was going to post some samples of my ridiculous casting cycles on raids, but I don't have the energy anymore.
 
well its pretty clear this point due to ooc they would rather work on monk stances they added then to fix (what you guys call) shitty agro or address anything for paladin in that matter.
 
heh well its like I said I don't really have any isuess holding agro is most cases normally lose when boxing but yeah.
 
Slayer90 said:
well its pretty clear this point due to ooc they would rather work on monk stances they added then to fix (what you guys call) shitty agro or address anything for paladin in that matter.
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Which is cool because monks stuff is pretty rough right now. After that, it would be nice to get some attention though!
 
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