Opuses and Class 3/4 tomes suggestion.

My suggestion for fixing this need for something to put exp into but not stepping on toes of people who have put in mass amounts of time to better their character (or have it boxxed in to leach exp or is a tank/healer that gets whored out) Is to do some math.

I have mass amounts of time into my character, your not stepping on my toes by giving people access to them. :)
 
If exp overflow is the problem and people need something to exp I do not disagree with giving them something. I do not know how I feel about giving them raid class tomes. Maybe Opus. Maybe a quest. Maybe junk tomes. Vendor. But I think if people have the ability to run out of tomes without raiding the upper tiers they have time or have been around a long time. But may not have raid availability. I do not think people should be incapable of furthering their character just because they cannot raid at certain times. Or cannot get into a viable guild that can get those Tomes.

My suggestion for fixing this need for something to put exp into but not stepping on toes of people who have put in mass amounts of time to better their character (or have it boxxed in to leach exp or is a tank/healer that gets whored out) Is to do some math.

Take what a t13 group can get in exp in one hour. Avg.
Take the avg amount of time to raid said Opus/class tome zones. And get one to drop. How many raids does it take avg to get a class tome? 1? 5? 15?

Multiply the amount of hours spent raiding to get opus/class tome by what that group can get for exp in an hour. Then make duplicates of all opus/class tomes.

Add this amount of exp to a NORMAL class tome.

That way you don't give the upper tiers more power by creating more tomes and the lower still has to spend a similar amount of time exping a tome that a top end raider gets by raiding.

Time investing in completing one of these new tomes needs to be on par with how much time the t11+ crowd has spent getting them.

Say *Splitting Shot 3* from Tur'ruj takes 125AA to complete.

Create *Expanded Splitting Shot 3* (put into the game however) will take a non-raider 1250 -AA (or whatever some avg math might tell you.)

The incentive to raid for these items is still there while giving people who need to exp something a place to go with similar time investment. One done by raiding. One Done casually.

Just an Idea.

I think Skos hit on the issue and made a decent suggestion. I have another suggestion. How about an empty exp potion that can be filled by the player, stored and used at a later time (perhaps when a new tome, opus, aa, etc. is made available or added. The empty potion bottle could be something that can only be bought, is only a no-drop item from dungeons/mobs, only a droppable item from a dungeon/mob, only tradeskill made or acquired through some or even all of these options. Maybe these empty exp potions when filled could even be used for something other than exp into a future tome ... such as increasing faction standing, acquiring useful clickies or other ideas that I am sure this community could suggest since this is all off the top of my head.
 
Now we are on the right track! Nobody asked for opi handouts (well not me anyway) but for another path. That path should probably be pretty long (those ideas that makes them be like 3-4 times more xp to fill/get sounds like that kind of solution.
But in a longer perspective:
If the server want to keep the hard core raiders happy what is needed is new content. Not to make life harder/more boring for the casuals.
 
yesterday we scream bloody murder because codex of power are too long.

today we scream bloody murder because we want something worse than codex of power.

tomorrow when you are done you will scream about something else.
 
I still like the idea of getting away from xp progression being tomes and only tomes.

I don't know what is possible within the current client, but I very much like the idea of filling a thing with xp, handing that thing to an npc somewhere, and getting tokens for augs, fun, or clicky things in return. That kind of idea helps people who have run out of droppable tomes, those who have run out of all tomes, and those who have less time to commit but would be interested in fun clickies or minorish gear improvements. Since there augs would take a bit of xp, I imagine that people would still buy tradeskilled ones for new gear until they had earned enough xp for a new xp-tokened aug.

Making the rewards expendable clickies or augs that poof on deaugging would create a well of xp where massive amounts of yellow numbers could be dumped, while maintaining the reward of raid tomes.
 
the problem should be addressed in the form of bounties giving the opportunity to add cool procs and clickies to gear. that way people can farm those instead of crying that exp doesnt give shit. since weapon procs dont work here (AFAIK) in the form of augs then you will need to rework how bracers proc so melee can do it too.

also dont make it so a rare mob has to spawn. make it so people have to exp there. kill 300 mobs in X zone and bounty complete.

TL:DR - Add more to bounties so people can exp for cool gear / trinkets / tokens regardless of level or completion of tomes
 
yesterday we scream bloody murder because codex of power are too long.

today we scream bloody murder because we want something worse than codex of power.

tomorrow when you are done you will scream about something else.

What we are doing, is trying to find a solution in some way. What you are doing, is just trashing everything that anyone says because you think only hard core players should be rewarded anything what so ever in this game.

That my dear, is bloody murder of the entire server. And I doubt that is what you want?
 
I'm not saying to kill the server. I'm saying stop going the easy route of "hey give me your raid loots" vs the hey this is an original idea. I have yet to bash an original idea that isnt hey give me free raid loots
 
I am probably going to get some hate posts for this, but I think the root of the problem here is that the basis behind why people are opposed to others having access to Opus's is based on a logic that is a fallacy. "If you get or have opus's and or high end loot you have worked hard to get them and that's the gospel truth." That is obviously not true. It could also be said that characters who never even made it to T11, who played earlier in the life of SoD could easily have even more work in them then people with t13 gear nowadays.

I'm not saying to kill the server. I'm saying stop going the easy route of "hey give me your raid loots" vs the hey this is an original idea. I have yet to bash an original idea that isnt hey give me free raid loots

Quit putting up straw men, no-one is asking for free things. Some times original ideas are adjusting things that maybe should have been done differently from the start.
 
adjust the entire server to my needs and only my needs please PLEASE PLEASE. stop trying to get your free ride to loot you were never able to get when you had no life.
 
There are hardcore raiders at tier 8, those people are also not getting opuses. This is not a hardcore raider/time investment vs. casual player issue.

People of the mindset "give us access to the opuses we want or we quit" without thinking of, or being open to, any other options are not working to find a solution. People saying "don't give them access to opuses" without being open to any other options are not working to find a solution.

How about some of the numerous alternatives to opuses that have been brought up? Do they sufficiently solve the "I'm running out of things to xp" problem? I thought this thread was about working to find a good solution for everyone, but if it's really just "give us access to opuses or we quit" maybe Deein is right.
 
/Gm-hat off

There was almost a suggestion out of Nebi in the Suggestions and Requests forum instead of some troll flame name calling.........world must be ending.

The plain and simple fact's are.

Server population is low

Donations - Low

Ability to find groups openly - Low (I know the response to this is going to be "just make a group") Well there is such a gap between new players and existing upper tiers that they just don't group they solo/duo instead or group with guildies of comparable level. Refer to server population being low for low group ability for new players.

So new suggestion. If we take the simple facts we have here. And look into the future of what this server has to do to survive with the release of D3 Expansion. ESO release. Future release of EQN. Many games going F2P. Let's be blunt here. Server survivability is the main concern in my opinion. I'm not going to criticize anybody's suggestion or request because that is just counter-productive to this whole forum and server as a whole. I want people to enjoy this server however they play. I'm not here to whine and cry and call people bitch babies just for a suggestion. I mean really the dev team has brain's. Let them decide what is an isn't a good suggestion. I'm not going to bash others posts out of the simple fact I WANT feedback from new players not to make they afraid to come an suggest things for fear of getting their post bashed. I mean really how many posts do you see by new players? How many suggestions? Have you even tried playing the game as a completely new player without any friends or contacts and PP?

If you are an old player or top tier player, make a new character and play as a new person to the server. Don't send tells to anybody you know. Play incognito. Don't twink. Try playing in this new server population. Try getting to where you are now. Sure it can be done. But it's not nearly as fun as when it was 300+ people on. Everybody talks about "The good old days" but nobody wants to do anything to get them back.

So on to a new suggestion if the top tier is so unhappy with the last.

Server future and survivability.

-Stop all Development of anything t12+
-Mass focus on 2.5. If the person doesn't have the skills to work on 2.5 Then Focus on mass revamp of the server as a whole.
-Get Feedback from the crowd sub T8.
-Make new quests.
-Revamp old zone's to make them more viable and fun.
-Revamp Bounty System or Overhaul it completely to make it better.
-Do development towards the casual player and quality of life.
-Implement a way to reduce down time in all area's. Time is the most valuable thing the player has. Wasting their time only make them not want to waste it playing here when other game's are quicker to get into and play as soon as you log in.
-Do something with buff timers. Holy shit make these things last 5 hours. With how many buff bots and easy it is to get them there is zero point why these things matter. It's a waste of player time to buff nobody wants to but is almost a requirement.
-Patch note's and updates. Players like being told things are being worked on and improved for something they are putting so much time into. Even if it is just "Things were done this week. We patched a thing."

Simple fact is without players there is no server. It has a lot to survive coming up. Quality of life of the player being positive creates donations. It retains players. It keeps people around.
Without players and people joining the server and donating and liking what they play there is no future. There is no need to create progression things if the server cannot survive.

I don't know about you but giving an opus or class tome to someone to exp that takes a forever amount of time just to make them happy and feel like they are getting something back for time invested is a hell of a lot more important than in the end losing the server. Be a little pro-active about the future of the server rather than losing exclusive rights to a tome. Because there is a whole lot more at stake.
 
[QUOTE="enasc, post: 290282, member: 79115" I thought this thread was about working to find a good solution for everyone, but if it's really just "give us access to opuses or we quit" maybe Deein is right.

If I came across differently, I will state it here. I am not issuing an ultimatum.
 
Simple fact is without players there is no server. It has a lot to survive coming up. Quality of life of the player being positive creates donations. It retains players. It keeps people around.
Without players and people joining the server and donating and liking what they play there is no future. There is no need to create progression things if the server cannot survive.

I don't know about you but giving an opus or class tome to someone to exp that takes a forever amount of time just to make them happy and feel like they are getting something back for time invested is a hell of a lot more important than in the end losing the server. Be a little pro-active about the future of the server rather than losing exclusive rights to a tome. Because there is a whole lot more at stake.

It is nice to see someone looking at the big picture, could not agree more

Yale
 
-Stop all Development of anything t12+ - If you stop developing this content you will instantly lose a good part of your player base. Not only that when a t12+ player leaves the game that adds another alt box to the mix. I do not know any t12 tank that doesnt play which isnt used as a tank bot for someone who isnt t12....

-Mass focus on 2.5. If the person doesn't have the skills to work on 2.5 Then Focus on mass revamp of the server as a whole. - it was my understanding that this is already the case. It was the case until people starting bitching moaning and crying about reform (which is understandable. I mentioned this in my review of shards of dalaya which people found to be completely one sided. i specifically mentioned this point. - http://www.emiliogarcia.net/reviews/shards-dalaya-review/ )

-Get Feedback from the crowd sub T8. - There have been attempts at getting this. but normally as you can see there arent many vocal people in that crowd because they obviously have a lot to do. Please find me a guild that is sub t8 that is having a hard time finding content to do!?!?!. the competition is no longer in t8. Maybe 5 years ago but not today.

-Make new quests. - Just like i bash crap on the server also giving credit where its due is important. Woldaff has worked his ass off adding new newbie quests for people to do. He even had to bribe people to do them by giving fame. The problem on this server is people want to bitch about what they do not have / cannot get and want it for free. There is literally a lot to do on this server and unfortunately another quest to farm a rare mob will only piss off the player base. Hell think of how many people were complaining about the vah.

-Revamp old zone's to make them more viable and fun. - Zaela was going to do this but someone pissed in his cornflakes / her cornflakes. Making something more fun and staying within the vision of woldaff is rather difficult. His idea for server progression is +15hp +15AC and make everything enrage. both from the front to the side to fucking everything. To make the server more "fun" the vision he has for it has to change.

-Revamp Bounty System or Overhaul it completely to make it better. Based on front page / April 1st things this seems to be happening.

-Do development towards the casual player and quality of life. - Casual players are just that. Once you develop to casual players you will develop to a fickle few who really do not give a shit about this game and have no problem jumping ship regardless what you do for them. You will get a bunch of entitled people wanting the entire world for nothing. The people who like this server and continue to come back are not casual players.... they are all people who at one point or another raided and considered themserlves "hard core". Everquest has never been a game for "casuals".


-Implement a way to reduce down time in all area's. Time is the most valuable thing the player has. Wasting their time only make them not want to waste it playing here when other game's are quicker to get into and play as soon as you log in. The only time you have "downtime" is during buffing. everything else is not that bad. If you happen to die well then fucking sucks for you. dont fucking die.

-Do something with buff timers. Holy shit make these things last 5 hours. With how many buff bots and easy it is to get them there is zero point why these things matter. It's a waste of player time to buff nobody wants to but is almost a requirement. - increasing bufftimes is something i can be behind 100%.

-Patch note's and updates. Players like being told things are being worked on and improved for something they are putting so much time into. Even if it is just "Things were done this week. We patched a thing." - 100% behind this. This will also tell people that hey we're still working on this server. dont you worry cool shit is on the way.

/Gm-hat off

There was almost a suggestion out of Nebi in the Suggestions and Requests forum instead of some troll flame name calling.........world must be ending. -
and since your gm hat was off. fuck you

Unless you hold DND parties on Fridays (Torleran), theory craft your own SOD Pen and paper game (Nwaij) its pretty difficult coming up with quests / stories for the game. At one time or another I wanted to become a dev until i really realized that its fucking hard to come up with shit. Just thinking of the shit I wanted my mob to say took forever to do. If we as a player base want changes and have cool ideas then you need to stop being bitch babies and turn them in. I do not and will never agree with an idea of "Hey give me what that cool guy is getting and put in no additional work" .
 
/hat still off.

I have yet to see any suggestions or requests from you Nebi. Just the throw up your hands and say don't do that.

This section of forums is a place to crowd-source idea's for the dev team. Like you put it. It's hard to come up with new things. I agree. That's why they are suggestions yet you seem to take them as demands. I feel like you seem to think everything put here is instantly going to be put into game. It's not and never will be. Constantly being negative towards everything with out putting forward reason why it shouldnt be other than. No don't do that /cry makes me pretty much ignore anything you say. You have given more negative input into this thread than solid information why it should not be. If it was a well thought out Suggestion why it shouldn't be done without attacks on people's ideals. Then people might see your point of view.

So I am openly inviting you to put into words why this shouldn't be done. What are your reason's behind it. What will this change. What do you think? Do you just dislike change that much? How would you change it?

I mean you can't dis-regard someone's suggestion just because you don't like it. Give me some proof. Give me Idea's and thoughts on the subject without being hostile or are you even capable of that. Use your long experience as a player to help better the server.

I mean really. Your a good player and I don't dislike you. But they way you portray yourself on the forums does not work in your favor. You talk about these "bitch babies whining" but at least they have a little decorum and are discussing things openly without turning to name calling. You are only making yourself look worse than how you view them.

So please enlighten me on how YOU would do things. Or why this shouldn't be done. It's a discussion not a who can throw a bigger temper tantrum.

I know Wold put a lot of new quests in and worked his ass off and I think that's fucking amazing. I don't know scripting but I have the ability to put my idea's down for them to look at. And my opinion on him giving fame for doing them and making sure they work is probably to HELP THE NEW PLAYERS WE DON'T HAVE.

And I couldn't care any less what anybody thinks of me. So QQ with the fuck you. You hurt dem interwebnets feelings hard.

Oh and I did put put the stop developing t12+ in there just so the upper tiers would know how it would feel when you have nothing left to do which I thought this is what this discussion was aimed at. And you only reaffirmed that we would "Lose a bunch of people" So why isn't their progression just as important as yours for fear of losing people who have "Nothing left to do."?
People who have nothing left to put exp into need something developed for them.

Everybody on this server is important because they play.

Anyways back to the think tank on What can be done for player's who are running out of places to put Exp.

I've always like Expable items.
 
If you dont think people T12+ go through the same shit then you're completely wrong. The newest content (thaz) has been destroyed and nothing new has been put in. You dont really play this game (currently neither do I) so you wouldnt know whats happening 12+

PS: thaz is not geared towards t12+ but it was done either way cause it was new content.
 
-Do development towards the casual player and quality of life. - Casual players are just that. Once you develop to casual players you will develop to a fickle few who really do not give a shit about this game and have no problem jumping ship regardless what you do for them. You will get a bunch of entitled people wanting the entire world for nothing. The people who like this server and continue to come back are not casual players.... they are all people who at one point or another raided and considered themserlves "hard core". Everquest has never been a game for "casuals".
.

And you go there again, you are trying to get the game into a hard core game only. This is NOT the case. And if you still do not understand that, then I guess you dont see more then your little hard core HBM crew. SoD is so much more then that, always have been and I sure as hell hope it will always be.

Someone said to me, SoD will be dead within this year. I hope he is wrong, cus this has been my game since 2007 and I want to keep it my game, in the casual way I have spent most of the time here in. Although Real Racing 3 on the Ipad is fun as hell...
 
Just to let you know that I dont raid anymore...... and I also have a 9 month old that has stopped me from being able to raid consistently...

Again Im not against change in the least bit. I'm just against giving everything to someone for nothing. I am 100000000000% FOR GIVING YOU ANOTHER METHOD OF PUTTING YOUR EXP INTO. I AM 100000% AGAINST TAKING IT FROM HIGH END RAID CONTENT AND GIVING IT FOR FREE.
 
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