Opuses and Class 3/4 tomes suggestion.

Tesselajnen

Tesselajnen

Dalayan Adventurer
Few people in general raid the zones where opis and class 3/4 tomes can drop compared to the amount of people playing lower tier. But people at lower tiers still exp and farm a lot, making their tome count go up until there is no more buyable tomes to get. But they might still be far away from Iksisth raiding.

I tried to search for old threads, but the search function seems a bit sad at the moment in this new forum. Not one hit on the "Opus" search or anything I tried really. So Im posting here, although this might have been up for discussion before. (Would be strange if it have not...)

Could devs and admins consider to add opis and class 3/4 tomes from Logistician in Dreadlands or some equal NPC for a huge amount of tokens and/or plat (Tokens if its from Logi, plat or something else if its a other NPC or a combination of both tokens and plat.)

A class 2 tome from Logi is today 16 tokens, to get a class 3 maybe add 10 more tokens and for the 4 add an other 10 tokens. So that you need 26 and 36 tokens to get your last 2 class tomes of a kind. Ie not something you get by just go to Kaesora one day and farm tome 1s for turnins. If tokens arent enough, maybe add 30k pp for the class 3 in combo with tokens and 40k pp in combo with tokens for the class 4.

Same with opi, to get a Opi 1 you would need at least 30 tokens and maybe a equal amount of plat. And then add a 10 extra each for the Opi 2. Maybe have some opis on a higher priced stage then others, depending on how usable the tome is.

Just tossing numbers out of thin air maybe, but Im not asking for it to be simple, Im asking for it to be irritating and hard but doable if you really want the tomes.

Thanks.
 
I like any idea that involves minimizing the RNG trolling people. Especially when many times its the only reason to do certain things (Killing tribes in Tur'ruj, but rotting the gear entirely just for a CHANCE at a tome you may need for example). I also agree the price should be steeper than Class Tome 2's, but I also don't think it should be so ridiculous that you're paying hundreds of thousands of plat for a single item to exp. Typically 20-25k for a Class Tome 2? Maybe 40-45k for Class 3, 75-80k for Class 4.

Granted, i'm just throwing numbers out too. Opi would be nice as well, and depending on the tome (Healing 4, Resil 4, etc) I could easily see it costing as much as a Class 4. I would just hate to see some astronomical numbers for a price tag, just because we want a little quality of life addition. Or if it does require a large number of tokens, introduce some repeatable DL quests that offer token rewards. Exp bottle necks shouldn't be the actual acquisition of a tome, so much as the time investment filling it. Racing Thoughts felt like it took forever, but it was nice to finish. Farming for a week to get enough money to afford said tome, then spending additional time to even finish it, rinse, repeat for tome 4 wouldn't be exactly thrilling to most/ all.

TL;DR- I like and support most of Agik's post. Would be very nice addition.
 
If you're seriously at the point where you do not have anything else to exp then you should be at the point where opus and class tome 3 4 drop..
 
Nebi said:
If you're seriously at the point where you do not have anything else to exp then you should be at the point where opus and class tome 3 4 drop..
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I could not agree with this more. I do not agree with people saying they don't have the time to invest. If you have the time to do all of the expable tomes and and have a supreme then you have the time to raid and get books.

I do however like Agik's original post, but disagree with it being cheapish. I would put the pricetag right around 100K for class 3 and 200K for a class 4. I would also put it right around 75k for an Opus 1 and 150K for an opus 2. It should be highly disadvantageous to get them this way and most preferably from killing in zones on a raid.
 
Moraelintz said:
I could not agree with this more. I do not agree with people saying they don't have the time to invest. If you have the time to do all of the expable tomes and and have a supreme then you have the time to raid and get books.
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The other issues is time zone, not necessarily time to commit. Working 3rd shift in the U.S basically means I will never raid and get the tomes I am personally after. Same would be said about Euros I suppose, but I don't know where Seven Virtues is yet, or if it's even an issue. I know Exodus was pretty far into Tur'ruj before merging with FwF, so it's possible I guess. But yeah, point being it's a little unfair to say that. I have all the daytime in the world to exp tomes and farm, BUT being a slave to the system and working my nights away is awful.
 
Getting a bunch of xp and money I could do on my own at 6 am if I wanted to. Getting those tomes requires you to have a very specific schedule, where you have to committ to a pretty damn specific time slot multiple days a week, and depend on a bunch of other (adequately skilled) people to even show up. And how many guilds are at a "tier" where they can get these? SB and CW died. We're working on getting to that point in Prophecy and Resurgum, and probably SV and another guild or two I'm unaware of where they're at progress-wise, but outside of a really decent thaz night for one opus 1, realistically ONE guild can do this. Is HBM gonna let us all in and have raid spots IF we can all make the schedule? and what if you're not a widely needed class? I don't really buy this no excuses attitude.
 
to be able to raid is by far not the same thing as farming/exping, what if you have a couple hours a day maybe 2-3 days a week at all to play? you surely can not raid and get those tomes if you can not commit to the guilds (if you can get in one that is on tier) time frame. you can get all buyable tomes done with limited time and connections, but frankly thats it be lucky to be in an on tier guild and fit their time frame or be left out. EQ live last I knew never put raid requirements to EXP AA's but then again this is SoD where it being a huge P.I.T.A. is the standard.

you can have all BoE gear and get DL faction with limited time, you can not raid T12+.
 
huey said:
Getting a bunch of xp and money I could do on my own at 6 am if I wanted to. Getting those tomes requires you to have a very specific schedule, where you have to committ to a pretty damn specific time slot multiple days a week, and depend on a bunch of other (adequately skilled) people to even show up.
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I am a big proponent of single group advancement for tomes and gear. It is mostly because I can't commit to a raid schedule anymore with the way my RL is structured. Most of the cool kids that play EQ EMUs are starting to get to this point with limited raid attendance ability.

If people want the ability to farm tokens for tomes, I say go for it. They want to put time into the game in order to put more time into the game. It sounds like a win/win for everyone...
 
Moraelintz said:
I do however like Agik's original post, but disagree with it being cheapish. I would put the pricetag right around 100K for class 3 and 200K for a class 4. I would also put it right around 75k for an Opus 1 and 150K for an opus 2. It should be highly disadvantageous to get them this way and most preferably from killing in zones on a raid.
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the time it takes to farm 150k is actually less then the odds of getting the tome you want from raiding.

my favorite farming would produce 150k after 15 days only playing 5 hours a day, to get an opus 2 of my choice that's much faster then any raid. how ever I don't have that kinda time so maybe 1.5 months for me these days.
 
The availability of these books was supposed to be increased when the second wave of Ikkisith zones were implemented, which would include sources that were not solely high tier raid targets. Or at least that's what a dev told me like 18 months ago. So that might impact this situation depending on if that's still true or if these zones are even still planned.
 
in my opinion this is something that probably drives lots of new people that don't have endless hours to throw at a game just to get to near/high teir. Lets look at things that people work on out side of raid times as it is. MQ/Vah/tot weapons/Tomes/Charms/farming those rare items.

I understand some of the suggestions will probably overlooked and probably not even feisable with in the staffs time to even implement but here it is.

Spells- like relics archics etc.
Ranks - Having different ranks of spells from 1 to 3. Rank 1 being solo questable/buyable. Rank 2 quested maybe needing a full group of t4-5 people ( since t4 and5 gear quitliy gear can be pretty much bought now). Rank 3 ie raided actually relics. Obv spell would be better the higher rank u have.

Tomes
I like the idea's listed above about being able tobuy or even token out opus's. It would suck to play that much and farm etc and not be able to progress xp wise with our having to raid high end.

Gear
At what compacity should a person be limited gear wise just because they cant raid? This is something only the admin can answer really. Should a person who don't raid high end be limited to not being able to do stuff like tank citadel? I mean correct me if im wrong could someone in complete BoE tank cita?
 
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Slayer90 said:
Gear
At what compacity should a person be limited gear wise just because they cant raid? This is something only the admin can answer really. Should a person who don't raid high end be limited to not being able to do stuff like tank citadel? I mean correct me if im wrong could someone in complete BoE tank cita?
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A tank in BoE gear would get wrecked in cita, and even if your healers could keep them up it would eat sooooo much mana to not be worth it.
 
As to the first post, I think Ishlana from dragonkin has mentioned the "running out of tomes" problem before on this forums. So, whoever was searching you could try for those posts to see previous discussions.

I do think it is an issue, that will need to be addressed. My character is Jeanval the Lesser Mage. I have 48 tomes finished. If I had not adventure banded with my rogue, I would probably be almost out of tomes. I have been adventure banded with my rogue since he was level 55. My rogue has 329 AAs, halfway through cop 3 and 4 class tomes done. Almost all his experience has come from the adventure band, which I consider to be a lot. I know more hard core players have gotten more exp faster. But, I think I would of hit that wall if I hadn't of taken the preventive step and slowed down how much exp JV gets.

As for solutions, here are my suggestions:
Refugee Bounty Hunting: I think this is a good idea, because a lot of the mechanics (coding) has been done before with the thurgardin incarnation so a completely new system doesn't have to be made. (I know you just don't copy and paste, but the architecture is there). Refugee bounty rank 1 should be equal thurgardin bounty hunting rank 3. So it is like a 6man that can't get locked down by the timer, and everyone can work towards something they want. Also, additional items can be added that are expable, or maybe some type of expable aug, like the claw commander's thing. The other benefit, with the variability of the bounty tokens levels to tomes, and the amount of quests you could get per week. The rate of tome aqcuisition can be well managed. Last thing we want is for everyone to run out of opuses to do. Lastly, you could direct people to some of the more under appreciated Ikisth zones such as FoB, EJ, and ToE. (Though all are really awesome zones, especially blessed.)

Zones/6mans: People already mentioned this. It looks like that will be with the second part. There's that ghost remnents that looks like it may become a dungeon. There's blind transcendents sitting on all those buildings, and new zones to be seen. So that is probably in the works.

As for the tokening/plat option. Tokening I can agree with but tokening and plat appears redundant to me. Because most people buy their tomes for class/aug tokens. So with that a class tome I at 8 tokens is worth like 10 k plat if you buy them at vendor cost (1.3 k), a tome 2 which is 16 tokens is 20 k. To add a plat cost is silly, because it's basically just a hidden token fee. The idea of repeatable token quests is neat, but we can equate 1 token = 1.3 k It should be a somewhat time intensive quest or have a mechanic from keeping someone from spamming it 10x a day.

As for adding a large plat cost to the opuses and class tomes 3&4, as a general principle may only aggravate the problem. It seems, unless you are farming ToLLs or the high pp items in FR by camping down there and only logging in to kill them. People generate much more experience than plat. And the charm is a plat sink, and so are the refugee augs. So another plat sink to help with an exp excess sounds like a detrimental solution. If you could trade exp excess (like excess AAs) for tomes that would help. It does sound silly at first read. But, it would be analogous to the emberflow fragments. If you're in EF all the time downing all the named and can't get that last tome you need, you have all the fragments to make it. So, if you literally have nothing else to exp until that tome drops, why not let the unusable exp create a tome, to then you can exp that tome. (An example suggestion is vlik the sly gives you a journal to fill out on your travels, you right click it and fill it up like a tome. When you return the completed journal you are awarded a tome (at random) that you have not completed. There are 4 types of journal one for opus I, opus II, and class 3, class 4)

Those are my thoughts,

**Edited for Spelling and P.S.**

My bias to be against another plat sink, is I haven't even finished the first two.
 
As been posted by several, just cus you fill your tomes does not mean you have the time or possibility to commit to high end raiding. Some people play this game to exp, some to quest and some to raid, most of us do it for the combination of two or all three of theese things. But SoD does not = one point only.

JV: If you could link Ishlanas post it would be nice, cus search function isnt working as intended for me at least.
 
Tesselajnen said:
As been posted by several, just cus you fill your tomes does not mean you have the time or possibility to commit to high end raiding. Some people play this game to exp, some to quest and some to raid, most of us do it for the combination of two or all three of theese things. But SoD does not = one point only.

JV: If you could link Ishlanas post it would be nice, cus search function isnt working as intended for me at least.
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Maybe I haven't played the game long enough, but has SoD ever not pushed people to raid?

Tier 0 and want your ancient spells? Raid low tier monsters.

Tier 5 and want your relics? Raid.

Tier 7 and want archaic? Raid.

Want your runic 2? Raid.

And currently, if you want opuses and class 3/4s, raid.

Not saying that these are equivalent to tomes, but just that there (from my experience) has always been a push into the raid game, and a push to kill the hardest things you can and then farm them.
 
I play quite a few hours a week on the game, but I DO NOT have time to raid anymore. Simply put, it is because raiding does not revolve around my schedule and tbh I don't find it very fun any more. I enjoy soloing and grouping. I currently have my #4 tomes done, but I support this fully. Call me radical, but I would even like to see the ability to get opus's and good gear, without having to raid, such as better bounties or some LDoN type thing. (not six mans designed for the top people on the server, who also have all day to sit around and camp them) It makes the game playable by more than just one type of player. I have solo'ed I have hardcore raided and time in, is time in. If the server wants to keep people around, I think it is apparent there are many people in my situation as well, it would be wise to cater to them.

Yale
 
I couldn't find the thread I was looking for, but as I thought it was a suggestion that they could drop from the crumbling maps or something. I did however find this closed thread about opuses by hitting the next page button. https://shardsofdalaya.com/forum/index.php?threads/opus-drop-rate.26478/ Some of the same ideas are posted again. Cambrai talks about how people in prestige might run out of tomes. I think at that time we hadn't even killed Fer'din. I also saw that almost all of my posts are about pets. Those ideas are goal.

Enasc makes a good point about raiding. The one counter argument people could make would be Archaic and below you can get on PuGs, whereas R1 and above you need to be a main raider in one of the top guilds. At present, I think only SV and HBM are downing bosses that drop those.
 
If there would be a diffrent way to get rank 3-4 then it would be awsome. Same with opuses 1-2. I would fall in the category if i didnt raid i would prolly farm/exp just because i find it fun and i would run out of tomes and i got supremes and theres no way in hell i can get into raiding with HBM cause they raid 2am mytime.
 
Turning in tokens for tomes. Add more tomes to the token vendor. Remove lore from tomes. Class tomes turned in give new type of tokens for Class tomes III/IV. Keep the original tokens for Class I/II and Opuses. Make it so the token count is equivalent to a hefty amount of plat. I think something like this would be cool, plus help those people with all those tomes sitting on random vendor toons trying to be sold.
 
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