Opuses and Class 3/4 tomes suggestion.

[Moraelintz]

Nobody ever said you need something to put your exp into to make you better either. If you enjoy exp and farming then exp and farm. If you want to get all the tomes then you have to raid. I am still in support of another way to obtain these things, but it should be costly....very costly. Thazz was implemented and has tomes, Spires has tomes, and Turruj has tomes. Like susvain pointed out Ikkisith 2.o was supposed to also increase the chance of tomes dropping.

 

[Yale1]

Nobody ever said you need something to put your exp into to make you better either. If you enjoy exp and farming then exp and farm. If you want to get all the tomes then you have to raid. I am still in support of another way to obtain these things, but it should be costly....very costly. Thazz was implemented and has tomes, Spires has tomes, and Turruj has tomes. Like susvain pointed out Ikkisith 2.o was supposed to also increase the chance of tomes dropping[/QUOT

I do not see a valid reason why they would need to be very, very costly. If 16 tomes is what it takes to get a #2, isn't that alone pretty costly from the perspective of someone who does not play 16 hours a day, I thought it was.

Yale

 

[Moraelintz]

because opus is 1/2 the reward for some of the higher end zones. IF you remove the reward for them why raid them at all when you get a 1 in how many chance at getting a good opus vs just farming the pp to buy a book.

 

[Hyoren]

I do not see a valid reason why they would need to be very, very costly. If 16 tomes is what it takes to get a #2, isn't that alone pretty costly from the perspective of someone who does not play 16 hours a day, I thought it was.

You need to stop thinking like only a casual player and open your mind to think from the perspective of both a hardcore and a casual player. This is from a high raid tier mob. These guys did work hard raiding that and constantly farming the same shit for rots just for a tome chance that may or may not drop. Making it allowed to a casual/lower tier player would already be a big leeway for a high tier person/guild. You need to have some leeway also and accept that it should be timely/costly to get one because you would never even be able to get one without a high tier guild in the first place which means you would never ever touch one ever never never ever ever never. Also keeps you playing the game longer because lets face it you will farm for it because how I feel is I would seriously farm 250k for a Opus 1 so I even think Moraelin is being way to lenient in his pricing earlier. Having another plat sink I don't think is a problem because alot of these guys that are in these high tier raiding guilds have 1.2mils and don't even have much Opuses yet.

 

[Yale1]

You need to stop thinking like only a casual player and open your mind to think from the perspective of both a hardcore and a casual player. This is from a high raid tier mob. These guys did work hard raiding that and constantly farming the same shit for rots just for a tome chance that may or may not drop. Making it allowed to a casual/lower tier player would already be a big leeway for a high tier person/guild. You need to have some leeway also and accept that it should be timely/costly to get one because you would never even be able to get one without a high tier guild in the first place which means you would never ever touch one ever never never ever ever never. Also keeps you playing the game longer because lets face it you will farm for it because how I feel is I would seriously farm 250k for a Opus 1 so I even think Moraelin is being way to lenient in his pricing earlier. Having another plat sink I don't think is a problem because alot of these guys that are in these high tier raiding guilds have 1.2mils and don't even have much Opuses yet.[/QUOTE

I have my #4 class tomes and have played hardcore, that point is moot. I am voting on steering the game slightly away from raiding, because not everyone can do it and people who occasionally raid have the same problem.

Yale

 

[Hyoren]

I have my #4 class tomes and have played hardcore, that point is moot. I am voting on steering the game slightly away from raiding, because not everyone can do it and people who occasionally raid have the same problem.

What your telling is that you were a hardcore player but now are casual and want the same benefits as when you were hardcore (mindframe of a casual player). If you read my post I don't say that it shouldn't be made available I said it should be costly/timely to obtain if made available and that your leeway is to accept that it should be costly/timely.

What you need to think like is that right now your a hardcore player. An Opus just dropped and theres 18 other people in the raid. If you meet the requirements you get a chance to roll on the tome and you may or may not win. Said tome may not drop for another 1-2 months maybe longer. You may not get to roll on said tome if raid leaders feel it is more beneficial to other classes. Or if your guild does tomes by council then you may never see said tome if a more active or longer vested player needed it before you. That's why I priced it at 250k. I felt it would have almost the same weight as this feeling that a raider would go through

 

[enasc]

The one counter argument people could make would be Archaic and below you can get on PuGs, whereas R1 and above you need to be a main raider in one of the top guilds. At present, I think only SV and HBM are downing bosses that drop those.

Any reason Spires can't be PuG'd? Other than the obvious, it's harder content and you need someone that is keyed to be with the raid at all times. Compare it to farming pages in ValorB. Why not farm Spires for books? You don't need to be killing Saitha (or even Failed) for an opus 1 chance.

If the general idea of this thread is to shift SoD away from a raiding mindset, a whole lot more has to change than just where the highest end tomes drop.

 

[Tevinter]

Opus are a reward for killing difficult tier10+ monsters, thaz, spires etc. Everybody eventually runs out of things to exp, but i do not think that making opus buyable is the solution. I think something more obtainable that a rohk book but filling a similar purpose should exist in the game. Or things like the claw commander augment. Maybe another expable bounty item similar to the seed but even more exp and have it be a necklace or cloak or something. But I dislike the idea of opus being buyable through tokens or whatever.

 

[kallemur4]

Tomes/opi was brought into game because there wasn't any way to add new AA's to the client.
Having tomes that can only be gotten thru high tier raiding is actually the same as it would be to have AA's that you only could unlock thru killing certain mobs.
I dont think you want that, so why should it be that way for tomes?

Getting gear/augs/clicky pots/pet gear/whatever thru high tier raids only is as it should be, but to have the AA equivalent available? I dont think that is a good way.

 

[speakeroo]

Any reason Spires can't be PuG'd? Other than the obvious, it's harder content and you need someone that is keyed to be with the raid at all times. Compare it to farming pages in ValorB. Why not farm Spires for books? You don't need to be killing Saitha (or even Failed) for an opus 1 chance.

If the general idea of this thread is to shift SoD away from a raiding mindset, a whole lot more has to change than just where the highest end tomes drop.

I think you answered your own question with the obvious reasons. Those are very strong reasons. My personal hypothesis is there is a minimal number of people (an on tier [or above] population) that is critical for the pugging phenomena to take place. As the tier of the zone/boss to be pugged goes up, the on tier population [or above] goes down, and so does the likely hood of the PuG even forming. If you would like, I can try to explain it better or just /tell me game. I am trying not to do another super long post.

PuG'ing of spires would happen, but will it happen in time to alleviate the problem this post is talking about? Will a large portion of the server population run out of tomes to do before they even get to the zones where tomes drop? Will it happen before the new content is released which may have zones and mechanisms to alleviate the problem already? I have no idea. I personally thought the thread was about what if people run out of things to exp.

 

[cian2]

I actually really liked the old system where you could turn in 2 class tomes for another class tome of your choice after killing Rujik, twice per kill. The problem was it was a manual solution and the dev who handled it is long gone without finding an automated solution.

As for opuses, I think their addition to Thaz and Tur'ruj bosses was a sufficient change. They are much easier to get now than they were originally.

 

[Nebi]

if you don't raid then you don't need.

if you want something to exp just adventure band with one of my alts.

 

[Tevinter]

All class tome 3 and 4s and opus could be made tradeable and then players could determine the price and value of them. I think this would be a great thing for everybody if people could give lower tier guys who cant raid or their alts or friends class tome 3 rots that nobody needs.

 

[Nebi]

I agree with you Tevinter! raiding should only give you the linear progression of 15 hp 15 mana upgrades per tier and nothing cool like additional tomes / skills.

 

[huey]

if you don't raid then you don't need.

I mean, you actually kinda have a point, but at the same time if you do raid, you don't necessarily need.

 

[speakeroo]

if you don't raid then you don't need.

if you want something to exp just adventure band with one of my alts.

I think some of the people who want them, do raid. They are just not at the tier to acquire them. Or, they were at that tier and something happened and they do not have the ability to acquire more. So to cut the argument down to a this or that, is a false dichotomy.

People have said that the new content may have new avenues. But, what if a portion of the player base hits this wall, before those new avenues become available. What will be the general reaction? I will probably work on my rogue, myself.

 

[Nebi]

I think some of the people who want them, do raid. They are just not at the tier to acquire them. Or, they were at that tier and something happened and they do not have the ability to acquire more. So to cut the argument down to a this or that, is a false dichotomy.

People have said that the new content may have new avenues. But, what if a portion of the player base hits this wall, before those new avenues become available. What will be the general reaction? I will probably work on my rogue, myself.

then you will be made fun of. IE Revelation never leaving TOT, CW taking forever to leave THAZ, RUIN for staring at a mob for 40 minutes while everyone is ready

 

[vistachiri]

Tomes that were only available through raiding/6mans were one of the worst ideas ever to grace this game. The original stated intent (adding new AA's impossible/giving people something to continue to progress their characters) was good. CoPs were, and are much needed, and I could point out personally from memory 20-30 people who stayed looong past when they would have quit the game had they not existed.

A healthy game of this nature, that is this old, needs multiple pathways of progression. Almost every single one of them in this game pretty much leads to raid or quit. This is part of that problem, and it is not a small problem. Not everyone wants to raid in the first place, and forcing them to do so to continue to play the part of the game they do enjoy, while getting rewards that quite frankly are likely not as good as regular AA's in most cases, is a pretty bad idea for retention.

 

[Gargate]

Look at this aisling guy with his logic and reasoning. Also I am one of those people who no longer has time to raid, so when I finish my supreme that's the end of forward progression for gargate. I plan on retiring at that point (137K to go) since there will be nothing left for me.

 

[Raxton]

Everyone retires eventually.