Opuses and Class 3/4 tomes suggestion.

[Tesselajnen]

With rewamp of CoPs this is even more up to date imo, what will players that cant raid high end put that exp into?

Everyone retires eventually.

But do they retire it cus they want to or cus there is nothing left to do in game for them? If its cus its nothing left for them to do in game, something is wrong with the setup Id say.

 

[Yale1]

Look at this aisling guy with his logic and reasoning. Also I am one of those people who no longer has time to raid, so when I finish my supreme that's the end of forward progression for gargate. I plan on retiring at that point (137K to go) since there will be nothing left for me.

/agree with aisling.

My character is in the exact same boat as you Gargate.

I do not see why there needs to be tomes that only drop from raid mobs, 6 man or 18. the loot itself in those zones is more than enough reason to raid them. This just seems like a double positive to me, not including you get xp and money loot as well raiding. I fail to see a legitimate argument as to why it would matter if other characters had access to them. And saying they are high tier rewards is stating something we already know. the argument isn't that they are not, it is that they should not be.

Yale

 

[enasc]

I do not see why there needs to be tomes that only drop from raid mobs, 6 man or 18. the loot itself in those zones is more than enough reason to raid them.

Is it really? How contested do you really believe that Emberflow would be if you could buy those tomes from a vendor? Do more people kill MK for Hellcall or the Dodging tome?

Pretty sure the answers to those questions are: no, lightly, and the tome.

I completely understand having nothing to put yellow numbers in and feeling like there's nothing left to do in this game. A month ago, I was there: in an inactive guild, farming my supreme, actively trying not to gain experience points while doing it because I would run out of books. I just think that some alternative path to put experience points in is a better long term answer than opening up the raid tomes to everyone.

Making these tomes raid-only seemed to be a way to slow down your XP progress by something other than how fast you can accumulate yellow numbers. With that mechanic gone, people will progress to being done with all relevant opus 2 tomes while still raiding ToT, Frost, and ED maps (speaking nothing of the balancing impact that would have on the content). Then they'll retire with nothing to XP, just at a different number of books on fomelo.

tldr: just saying that giving existing books to more people does not solve this problem, only pushes it down the road a number of months.

 

[Dinadass]

Is it really? How contested do you really believe that Emberflow would be if you could buy those tomes from a vendor? Do more people kill MK for Hellcall or the Dodging tome?

Pretty sure the answers to those questions are: no, lightly, and the tome.

T8-9 content being perma contested by t12-13 players rotting the actual gear drops is an indicator of something wrong and in need of changing, and not a situation to be held up as some sort of good game design.

 

[Gargate]

I have little time to play, with what time I do have I solo farm not because I prefer to solo it's because I'm farming a supreme. I'm also almost done with all relevant buyable tomes.

I like this game and enjoy slaying digital monster's with cool people but the game doesn't have anything for me to do beyond the last 10% plat of my supreme and a handfull of tomes.

 

[lynnettell]

Personally, I think Opus 1 & Class 3 should be available via other ways. Keep Opus 2 & Class 4 locked to raids or SUPER high priced, but without the implementation of worthy class tomes for each class (completely other topic), there should be alternatives over doing tomes just do to tomes. If in the future there is a way to put exp into other things, then so be it. But as it stands now for a lot of people who don't want to go high end raiding, for whatever reason (time zone, lack of playtime, lack of inclination, whatever their *personal* reason is) there aren't a lot of options. Throw into the mix that unless you're in one of the hard core guilds that raid 5 freaking days a week or already have the T10+ folks, there's several (I can name at least four) guilds that are getting done with tomes but need geared before reaching Spires.

This is due to the ever changing pace of the game, the constant turn over (that happens to every game, just is a lot more noticeable here with a smaller population). Is a brand new 65 going to be able to afford Opus 1 or Class 3? Probably not.... but it fills a gap for those who aren't T10+ yet.

Emberflow tomes should stay exactly as they always have been. I've killed MK more times than I care to count. I was kind of surprised that Windstone didn't get the EF tomes, probably would have encouraged some more people to the zone.

 

[Yale1]

T8-9 content being perma contested by t12-13 players rotting the actual gear drops is an indicator of something wrong and in need of changing, and not a situation to be held up as some sort of good game design.

Well said

Is it really? How contested do you really believe that Emberflow would be if you could buy those tomes from a vendor? Do more people kill MK for Hellcall or the Dodging tome?

Pretty sure the answers to those questions are: no, lightly, and the tome.

I completely understand having nothing to put yellow numbers in and feeling like there's nothing left to do in this game. A month ago, I was there: in an inactive guild, farming my supreme, actively trying not to gain experience points while doing it because I would run out of books. I just think that some alternative path to put experience points in is a better long term answer than opening up the raid tomes to everyone.

Making these tomes raid-only seemed to be a way to slow down your XP progress by something other than how fast you can accumulate yellow numbers. With that mechanic gone, people will progress to being done with all relevant opus 2 tomes while still raiding ToT, Frost, and ED maps (speaking nothing of the balancing impact that would have on the content). Then they'll retire with nothing to XP, just at a different number of books on fomelo.

tldr: just saying that giving existing books to more people does not solve this problem, only pushes it down the road a number of months.

So your solution to having nothing to do grouping/soloing/charm farming was to abandon it and raid again? That statement kind of shot down your own point:/

Second, the last paragraph. first of all, the people who can't control their playtime will always eventually have nothing to do, even with the status quo, we still have that problem. It is not the servers responsibility to cater to their irresponsibility. Making GIANT time sinks for people who's time basically has no value is not fair to everyone else. If your game is setup for people who play 14 hours a day, then A. Your player base just shrunk drastically, not taking into account other factors like mmo competitors, age of the game etc etc... B. Good luck getting donations of any kind to support your server from people who likely have no jobs

I repeat myself. The loot from zones like turj and spires is ludicrous when compared to someone who cannot raid or has lower tier stuff, or even just a few tiers lower. It is being portrayed that it is some great feat of accomplishment to farm mobs in those zones. Most Turj and spires mobs are basically loot pinata's. I believe I will also back that by pointing to the fact spires was just recently pugged successfully. The loot is reason enough to raid the zones, if you do not need the loot, then move on, just like every other zone. If you run out of things to do, then maybe you should reevaluate how much time you spend on video games, I mean I've played this game for over 8 years and I have not even done an opus yet.

There is an endgame. period, you are right. For me and I'm sure many others allowing access to these tomes would give years worth of stuff to do.

Yale

 

[Daffie]

T8-9 content being perma contested by t12-13 players rotting the actual gear drops is an indicator of something wrong and in need of changing, and not a situation to be held up as some sort of good game design.

I agree with this 100%. It's crazy.

Those who have opus1-2/class3-4 done have enjoyed being cool kids for quite a bit. Like all MMO's, the line in the sand changes and with that it is probably time to allow casual players a chance at some of the cool kids stuff. They don't have access to the raid gear upgrades, nor perhaps runics/archaic, but maybe it is time to let them keep putting xp into something?

Allowing everyone the ability to work independently and access tomes and spells is not game breaking like it would be to allow access to t13 gear... Think about this a second. Daffie with access to tomes/spells doesn't even come close to being a Bango. Gear is that important to this game, and the big reward for raid advancement.

 

[fxattack]

Agree with the previous posts. Everyone who has raided knows that you don't get the same feels from looting a book, most of which grant passive abilities, as opposed to the shiniest of loot that you have been putting tons of raid hours in for months. I pretty much hated the fact that there were tomes exclusive to spires and tur`ruj once their creation was compared to AAs that our client just didn't allow for. I guess the idea of excluding AAs to people at a certain playstyle or gear level just doesn't seem fun.

 

[Kedrin]

One main problem with tomes is they are not all created equal.

Tome of Elemental Resistance
Tome of Magical Resistance
Tome of Bodily Resistance
Tome of Enhanced Stamina
Tome of Enhanced Agility
Tome of Enhanced Dexterity
Tome of Enhanced Charisma
Tome of Enhanced Strength

Are all basically "meh".

One way to make opus and/or book farming better would be to simply move these tomes into a different category all together, Archetype would be fine. These should be MUCH more easy to obtain than any other tome/opus and not share in a loot table in any form with the other "general tomes".

I feel that having the first two ranks of the stat tomes and first three of the resist tomes should almost be on a vendor. If anything very low end mobs. The later ranks, opus I's and II's, should not be on raid targets. I feel these should also be put on a vendor, or more difficult mobs than you put the earlier ranks / put them in the same loot table as the other "genera tomes".

I also feel that the lack of Melee tomes is problematic but I am not 100% sure that belongs in this thread.

You have a 1/22 shot at getting a tome/opus you wish. 1/44 if you add in ranks. I think bring this number down to 1/14 or 1/28 would do wonders.

 

[Gargate]

. Most Turj and spires mobs are basically loot pinata's.
Yale

LOL yes, I'm not sure if you still can but Gru`Niet Tribe could be killed with 2 mnks 2 healers and a few dps, of course this was learned after the raid pretty much wiped and it took FOREVER to dps it down.

 

[dracosf22]

LOL yes, I'm not sure if you still can but Gru`Niet Tribe could be killed with 2 mnks 2 healers and a few dps, of course this was learned after the raid pretty much wiped and it took FOREVER to dps it down.

its been changed since then. you actually have to do stuff now and tank things....and hope the enc doesn't die.

 

[Moraelintz]

The thing about making opus easier for everyone to get is now over 1/2 the reward for Turruj is removed. Also, whomever said they get more excited about gear than books has not raided high end for an extended period of time. There is more drama over books than anything else in higher end guilds.

When sacred band was starting in Turruj some of the biggest upgrades came from the books and not the gear. Gear makes somewhat a difference but the biggest difference comes not at t13 it comes from the jump into sanctum. That is where the largest increases come and they still have bane focus effects. That and abyss has a huge jump in stats and focus effects.

HBM basically raids 1-2 nights a week just for book chances and select pieces of rare loot and alt loots.

I also highly agree with Kedrin on 2 types of books. There are the ones everyone wants see mind / crit Eco/ striking/ healing/ avoidance/ etc and there are the ones that we just sight at when we see like stat and resist books.

I would really like to see stat and resist put on a vendor somewhere or put on 6 mans or something and removed from raid bosses to increase chances at good books. However, I will not complain as the book chances are 1000's of times more easily obtained than they once were.

 

[Gargate]

To all the players saying to keep opus/class 3/4s to raids, come up with at least 3 worth while ways to progress a char for players that are beyond BoE gear, charms and relevant tomes (aka most of the server).

yeah sure there's some players that still have a few buyable tomes to finish out but do they progress their char? after roughly 30 tomes most of whats left is just stuff to put exp into with no real progression.

6 mans for people who can't raid? nah because T12-T13 farm them for books or alt gear and you still have to have a regular running group which isn't easy for casual/non raider players to keep up.

make an alt? most casual/non-raider players don't have time to sink many hours into the game everyday on the char they WANT to progress let alone start over.

charms: you can't farm them realistically in a group so you either solo or box. That doesn't help the grouping problem as is for casual/non-raider players and once that's done then what?

Its pretty much ending up for a lot of people well I like the game but if you can't raid there's nothing to do, sure there used to be regular PuG raids but with 175 ppl at peak hours there isn't much PuGing done anymore.

whats gonna happen when the only people left are the top handful with no one to brag/link their cool kid stuff to.

 

[Yale1]

The thing about making opus easier for everyone to get is now over 1/2 the reward for Turruj is removed. Also, whomever said they get more excited about gear than books has not raided high end for an extended period of time. There is more drama over books than anything else in higher end guilds..

.. The gear is enough reason to raid turruj. As I said before, the tomes being put into a high end raid zones is just a bad way to keep people who play way too much busy, its not fair to everyone else who plays the game.

When sacred band was starting in Turruj some of the biggest upgrades came from the books and not the gear.

B.S. There are peices that drop in spires and Turj you do not need to upgrade on various classess. Getting +1 or 2% chance to something on a few of your raid characters is not even close to equal to the loot upgrades. Claims like this require real definitive evidence and I have yet to see any. As far as I can tell, aside from the tomes of power and maybe class tomes, the difference is not even close to noticeable and would require software to even determine, which I would Guess, would likely show that your choice of buffs or timing and choices on your character during combat would have a greater impact.

HBM basically raids 1-2 nights a week just for book chances and select pieces of rare loot and alt loots.

And? what? We would be taking away a few peoples ability to kill stuff for books and ruin the game for them? So HBM's scummy, undeserving, twinked and I would argue illegitimate alts should have access to some of the best loot in the game and tomes? Cool, so you can spend as much time playing, but not raiding with HBM and you'll just end up worse than one of their second characters. Heh

I also highly agree with Kedrin on 2 types of books. There are the ones everyone wants see mind / crit Eco/ striking/ healing/ avoidance/ etc and there are the ones that we just sight at when we see like stat and resist books.
I would really like to see stat and resist put on a vendor somewhere or put on 6 mans or something and removed from raid bosses to increase chances at good books. However, I will not complain as the book chances are 1000's of times more easily obtained than they once were.

I agree with kedrin too, but I still don't see why all of these (class and various opus's) cannot be obtained in some way other than raiding a specific zone, which limits your guild selection to 1, maybe 2 in the future. there is no real logic to it other than that the people who are opposed to it do not want people to get something they have without having to do what they did. I would be fun to use that logic and go back many years in the game

Yale

 

[dracosf22]

This is really starting to sound like a crybaby thread. Waaah, I want things, gimme gimme. What, I need to do things to get things?

I can concede the class book system is awful and I could see 3 and 4's added to the logistican.

Shim waz right, sb got more outta the books.
In regards to loot being good enough reason to raid turruj....its not. Your for the most part talking about 1% haste upgrades, some focus effects in different slots and if your super lucky, 15 more hps then abyss stuff.

 

[Tesselajnen]

Is there any chance of getting a admin or maybe dev to have some input into this thread?

What are staff opinions about this? Is it worth to keep non high end raiders in game by giving them more tomes to fill exp in or is it more worth to keep the tomes locked for high end raiders only as it is today? What are the plans? What are the thoughts amongst staff? What are the priority?

 

[enasc]

To all the players saying to keep opus/class 3/4s to raids, come up with at least 3 worth while ways to progress a char for players that are beyond BoE gear, charms and relevant tomes (aka most of the server).

You didn't specify that I had to stick to currently in game content with my proposals, so I won't. We have some very skilled and creative developers on SoD, so why think inside the box on this issue?

1) expendable experience. I would like to see a way to fill a (something) with xp and trade that thing for an expendable clicky, or to spawn a monster, or to buff a raid. Something like that. Spend 10-20 AA for a 1-3 time clicky with a high dd on it? (Think Taesh ear that will poof) I would do that. 30 or 40 to "call ancient Tarlisha from her grave" and kill her for a quest? Sure, might do that too.

2) experienceable gear. Akin to the seed of health/energy, gear or augs or something that will gain massive amounts of experience and will slowly level accordingly. Step 1 could be a short quest for a lowest level +fire damage aug. After several tomes worth of xp, maybe it's gained strength to be max fire damage with some mana or hp or something. Balancing isn't my focus right here.

Yeah I'll have to think a bit more on that third one. Nothing well fleshed out yet. But what I'm trying to get at is that much like how charms, alts, and boe gear get platinum dollars out of the economy, a mechanic to get experience dollars out could be a longer term solution than the world raining tomes.

 

[Yale1]

This is really starting to sound like a crybaby thread. Waaah, I want things, gimme gimme. What, I need to do things to get things?

I can concede the class book system is awful and I could see 3 and 4's added to the logistican.

Shim waz right, sb got more outta the books.
In regards to loot being good enough reason to raid turruj....its not. Your for the most part talking about 1% haste upgrades, some focus effects in different slots and if your super lucky, 15 more hps then abyss stuff.

In the big boy world we have something called evidence and it is typically delivered with correct grammar. You are incorrect. The gear is far more powerful than the tomes if you are not already equipped with t12 gear. Apparently the loot in spires and turrj is not good enough reason to raid them and that is why your not decorated in it.....

I would like to see what a person with authority has to say about this topic as well.

Yale

 

[Gargate]

the game needs more then tomes for non-raiders, it made sense to focus the game on raiding when there was a decent amount of people that could invest their lives into the game , but that is no longer the case and it never will be again more then likely.

gaming as a whole is moving more towards casual play.

lastely I do like some of those ideas Enasc, the game could stand for alot more to do with limited time.

as it stands raid or do nothing.

P.s. I recently got a new PC so my gaming options are pretty much anything at max up to the most recent titles and have found a number of things I've been having fun with, even though I'm not all that good at FPS's I found a few with rpg aspects that take maybe 10-15mins per round and I can play a few games and call it a day.