mellee crits and nots.

NeoReloaded said:
Words
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Paladins get heals, group heals, group heals over time, roots, stuns, blinds, lay on hands, AA group heal thats pretty much a CH, best AE aggro in the game, self haste, innate crits, best anti-undead spells abilities in the game, innate procs, yalp 1-4.

See I can go on and on too about paladin abilities, and shut up about sk spells being unresistable, when the spells you have are hardly resisted if ever, also all of the sk disempowering spells have no resist adjust, just lifetaps too, so they get resisted about 50% of the time.

Our dots suck too, and leech touch is resistable as well,
 
NeoReloaded said:
UNRESISTABLE aggro spells that can be chain casted.
an AA aggro spell with instant recast
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As has been said many, many times, SK agro has not scaled up from when those spells were implemented. They were designed to keep agro off maybe 300 DPS, not 400-800 that tanks have to deal with now. And the AA agro point is moot, it leaves a 32 second duration debuff on the mob, which doesn't let another AA agro be cast on that mob until it wears off
Leech Tap AA (2k+ damage, like 5k if you crit)
~1 minute mez spell
DoTs, DDs, AoE disempower (also +aggro), a sweet spell that drains HP and mana from your target and gives it to your group, etc
Feign Death
Gimp pets, but they proc small lifetaps occasionally
They don't get Innate crits. But they do get a lifetap proc buff, not to mention +crit AAs
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Uh, Group LoH anyone? Highest Poison/Disease cure in the game?
Mez is level 54 max, and you get it at uh, 63? Hardly useful.
DoTs etc etc are mainly useless. They are expensive and very resistable. Vortex of Death however is very useful, I'll give you that
FD is very good, but Lull is also incredibly great for pulling
Our pets don't proc
Paladins get DD procs, and self haste, they also get +crit AAs, making them tied for the highest crit % in the game with Warriors.
 
i was listing some of the abilities of SKs from my experiences in order to show him that they aren't useless. i've never played a paladin before

also wth, why was my pet lifetapping mobs :(
 
NeoReloaded said:
i was listing some of the abilities of SKs from my experiences in order to show him that they aren't useless. i've never played a paladin before

also wth, why was my pet lifetapping mobs :(
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No they have lifetaps, jose is crazy. ;)
 
Tempus said:
According to wiz the style doesn't lower your accuracy http://forum.shardsofdalaya.com/index.php?topic=14086.msg125998#msg125998

Just for shits an giggles I did some parses once the server was back up.

Without the style I was getting 5.8% crits and 66.2% accuracy over 399 attempted swings(DPS was 86), with the style i was getting 24.5% crits with 65.9% over 317 attempted swings (DPS was 102.3)

EDIT:
So I took the time to make clone of you, and the results of the parsing were not what I expected. Style 5 doesn't lower your accuracy at all, but basically what it looks like to me (and I could be wrong) is someone at your level of aa's and crit strike gets more total DPS from the 10% haste in /s 2 vs the Critical Increase from /s 5. This was the opposite for the level 65 pally with 0 aa's or crit strike that I used for my first parse.

On a level 65 mob

Using /s 2, GoE, Acumen, Ancient: Sihala's Gift:
Slashing DPS: 265 Critical Hits: 24% Accuracy: 72.3%

Using /s 5, GoE, Acumen, Ancient: Sihala's Gift:
Slashing DPS: 253.7 Critical Hits: 34.1% Accuracy: 72.9%

Using /s 1, GoE, Acumen, Ancient: Sihala's Gift:
Slashing DPS: 238.4 Critical Hits: 24.5% Accuracy: 73.2%
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Well, that's not right. I'll make it scale.
 
I always took it to mean, a gradual increase or decrease in power/accuracy/stats/dps (insert other exampler here - depending on the context of the word).
 
Since paladins are supposed to be the masters of aoe aggro, is it possible to get some form of aoe aggro prior to 61 (undead via sanctify) or 62 (ae blind).
Prior to this point, their only method of ae aggro WAS via group HoTs. Now that that has changed, I'm not sure if they have any...

They're actually behind SKs who get their first wave spell at around level 30.s
 
More of a fairness sake. It does seem reasonable since paladins are supposed to be the masters of AE aggro control that they should start their mastery a little earlier than what they have now but that's just me
 
ryutakin said:
More of a fairness sake. It does seem reasonable since paladins are supposed to be the masters of AE aggro control that they should start their mastery a little earlier than what they have now but that's just me
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Thats reasonable. But it should be on the same timer as another AE spell.

Adding another spell to be used with the currents is definitely unnecessary.
 
I have been away for a long time but...

Paladins get heals, group heals, group heals over time, roots, stuns, blinds, lay on hands, AA group heal thats pretty much a CH, best AE aggro in the game, self haste, innate crits, best anti-undead spells abilities in the game, innate procs, yalp 1-4.

Its been like 4 years since we had group heals that were not HoTs. Hand of Piety was like 1500 HPs max so unless you are in a group of necros that are level 45 you aren't CHing much. Unless these things have changed in the past 6 months they are just plain untrue.
 
Ok before I start here this went in a while ago now .. What I have noticed


I am a pally that pulls my own mobs 90% of the time unless I have to have a FD puller (ndhk FR only things I can think of other than raids)

But now as I pull more than one target I can't keep agro it just flops to who ever STARTS casting.
Please not they havn't even gotten a spell off .. As for holding AE agro .. well it's not easy at all anymore.. AE blind dose get resisted not that often but it dose.. however even if it lands on the train you pull .. Before the spell ever comes back up I notice I have lost agro on most of them.. so Basicly I now have to G-heal cuz there taking my agro ..

From my point of Veiw .. Talk to Warriors how many that raid .. Even taunt? ... yeah sounds follish but true they get there agro from other things procs Dsp .. Foe lock Ect ect

Sk .. Well Damb yeah I have played on for pulls that were needed Ect .. for An encounter we needed one. .. They have snap agro .. They claim it's just one Target .. Ever trying chaning targets to another mob and cast on that one aswell!.. I I have played one for T-maps as well I had no issues changing targets and keeping agro .. With people AE'ing. So I really don't see your point.

Now pallys don't' seem to have any way to lock agro anymore. For me I have High CHA yet alot of my stuns get resisted and the tricks for live to counter that don't work in Sod. As I have found resists are like 0 agro here. (i'm not saying be like live at all so please don't bite my head off)
With stuns along I cannot hold agro .. with AE blind and stuns alone I cann't hold Agro .. Bascily it's hell for me to hold agro at all anymore .. once you get a Good rouge or 2 they pull it off 2 seconds After you AE again.


Suggestions
Ok i'm not sure what the deal is with taunt seem to do like nothing for a pally, I know warrior the hold agro without ever using it. Sk's got Terrors that I have yet to have anyone pull a mob off me when I'm playing one. (even on Multi Targets)

I will also say right here I did use both Ae hot and AE blind to hold agro before and it worked well .. but I also Taunt Bash And disarm Constantly.

So imo sense you have stated that Hots are Nerfed for good. Can we get a taunt mod or bost to AE blind.. Hell make Disarm for agro Across the board. but please give me something so that I can hold agro over a rouge .. i'm a tank. I shouldn't loose agro to Rouges or Wizzards or anything... But I can't push my buttons faster than the pop so I really see something needs to be done here.


So another side note I'm shocked this Became such and issue to get a Nerf done over a Crit merlee hits.


I also See points about LoH here .. But well Umm SK's Get Harmtouch .... if you burn it the mob dosn't have time to hit you with debuffs.

I'm also going to get a few logs to add to this to show that .. Expect more to come.
 
your post is really hard to read, even though it seems like you have a decent argument buried in it somewhere.

That said I didn't see you mention using your group stun spells, or divine stun or individual blind spells, all of which can help pick up stray mobs in a multiple pull. For he last couple days I have been dualboxing Bounta a ton in DN, and once I've done a couple stuns and blinds I can blast away with Tyrone's rains and AEs and not lose aggro on pulls of 10+ rats
 
Blubuds said:
Ok before I start here this went in a while ago now .. What I have noticed


I am a pally that pulls my own mobs 90% of the time unless I have to have a FD puller (ndhk FR only things I can think of other than raids)

But now as I pull more than one target I can't keep agro it just flops to who ever STARTS casting.
Please not they havn't even gotten a spell off .. As for holding AE agro .. well it's not easy at all anymore.. AE blind dose get resisted not that often but it dose.. however even if it lands on the train you pull .. Before the spell ever comes back up I notice I have lost agro on most of them.. so Basicly I now have to G-heal cuz there taking my agro ..

From my point of Veiw .. Talk to Warriors how many that raid .. Even taunt? ... yeah sounds follish but true they get there agro from other things procs Dsp .. Foe lock Ect ect

Sk .. Well Damb yeah I have played on for pulls that were needed Ect .. for An encounter we needed one. .. They have snap agro .. They claim it's just one Target .. Ever trying chaning targets to another mob and cast on that one aswell!.. I I have played one for T-maps as well I had no issues changing targets and keeping agro .. With people AE'ing. So I really don't see your point.

Now pallys don't' seem to have any way to lock agro anymore. For me I have High CHA yet alot of my stuns get resisted and the tricks for live to counter that don't work in Sod. As I have found resists are like 0 agro here. (i'm not saying be like live at all so please don't bite my head off)
With stuns along I cannot hold agro .. with AE blind and stuns alone I cann't hold Agro .. Bascily it's hell for me to hold agro at all anymore .. once you get a Good rouge or 2 they pull it off 2 seconds After you AE again.


Suggestions
Ok i'm not sure what the deal is with taunt seem to do like nothing for a pally, I know warrior the hold agro without ever using it. Sk's got Terrors that I have yet to have anyone pull a mob off me when I'm playing one. (even on Multi Targets)

I will also say right here I did use both Ae hot and AE blind to hold agro before and it worked well .. but I also Taunt Bash And disarm Constantly.

So imo sense you have stated that Hots are Nerfed for good. Can we get a taunt mod or bost to AE blind.. Hell make Disarm for agro Across the board. but please give me something so that I can hold agro over a rouge .. i'm a tank. I shouldn't loose agro to Rouges or Wizzards or anything... But I can't push my buttons faster than the pop so I really see something needs to be done here.


So another side note I'm shocked this Became such and issue to get a Nerf done over a Crit merlee hits.


I also See points about LoH here .. But well Umm SK's Get Harmtouch .... if you burn it the mob dosn't have time to hit you with debuffs.

I'm also going to get a few logs to add to this to show that .. Expect more to come.
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I must admit, I don't quite agree here.

I usually NEVER have a puller around when I XP and I could hold aggro just fine before and after the nerf to hot. That being said it got a bit harder if you are going to non-undead places but I can hold aggro just fine, no matter if single or masspull. I already suggested to give the hots a small aggro components over proxy and sole casting aggro, I have no idea if that will be adjusted or not.

It was WAY easier before the nerf, I give you that but it is by no means impossible to hold aggro now. And I'm speaking about holding aggro over Nwaij and the such. Not sure what else I could tell you - oh and also I have used taunt like 5 times - it is a known fact that knight taunt is not as good as war taunt but we have spells to compensate.



That being said I don't really like the change but I can see why it happened and well - the situation is not as dramatic as you seem to think.
 
Blubuds said:
Words
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Are you honestly telling me you think that SK can hold aggro on multiple targets easily? And that paladins need a boost to AE aggro?

:psyduck:
 
You're losing agro on the mobs because they haven't been locked down by melee. If a mob hasn't been hit by a physical strike, no matter how high on the agro list you are, it will run towards a casting PC it thinks it can interrupt.
 
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