mellee crits and nots.

[Alton]

(ninja edit, I'm dumb and it sounds like paladins can actually pbaoe 12 mobs, pretty much nevremind to my below post)

With the HoT nerf, is there any option to aggro more than 6mobs at a time now?
With PBAOEs only hit 6, and from what I can tell, the same six until that mob dies or is out of range, so it isnt like you can just chain pbaoe and hope for extra targets.

Any way to set the max # of targets on certain spells to > 6?

 

[Tempus]

This situation just really bites me because I was burned really badly by the Company as a long-term SWGer. Every time someone would complain about another template vs. theirs trying to get something fixed, instead of a fix (if it was relevant and needed fixing) the profession/template it was compared to got nerfed. This caused a massive "flavor of the month" problem in SWG and eventually led to the NGE, which destroyed what is still my favorite game of all time. SoD is my second favorite game, and I really don't want to see issues like I saw with the Company here. If it's a massive time expenditure to fix things, I'm more than willing to help if shown how to do so.

Clearly, we fix every problem by nerfing something. syduck:

 

[Pallish]

Nerf to Fit for the win :dance:

Moved this to: Classes & Gear, which is really the more appropriate place at this point.

My feelings on this subject of the Grp HoT change is that Paladin's should not have the ability to be a back-up healer and aoe tank with one spell alone.

I also feel that if a Paladin is taking on the tank role then they should have to give up some of their dps, for example change Guarding Blade and Cleansing Blade to:

(4) Guarding Blade 20 Puts you into a focused stance, increasing both hate and parry. Due to your defensive mind set, your accuracy will be reduced.



(5) Clensing Blades 35 Puts you into a focused state, increasing critical hits veruses all neutral or evil targets. Due to your offensive mind set, your hate, parry, dodge and avoidance will be reduced.

bro, have u even really checked /s5 despite what wiz says this shit doesnt work. make a clone of me, throw on the stance and make a parse you will see no dps increase. What u will see is 20 to 45 less dps. So how about we fix it or just change the damned thing.

 

[Mythryn]

Clearly, we fix every problem by nerfing something. syduck:

More often than not, yes. That's not to say all nerfs are bad or undeserving, but plenty of broad, sweeping nerfs have happened in the history of SoD. But, it keeps the masses balanced, to a point. (Wizards and Rogues lulz)
And his point still stands about the flavor of the month thing. Paladins have been that since their change, and have been that way for a reason.

 

[Tempus]

Nerf to Fit for the win :dance:
bro, have u even really checked /s5 despite what wiz says this shit doesnt work. make a clone of me, throw on the stance and make a parse you will see no dps increase. What u will see is 20 to 45 less dps. So how about we fix it or just change the damned thing.

According to wiz the style doesn't lower your accuracy http://forum.shardsofdalaya.com/index.php?topic=14086.msg125998#msg125998

Just for shits an giggles I did some parses once the server was back up.

Without the style I was getting 5.8% crits and 66.2% accuracy over 399 attempted swings(DPS was 86), with the style i was getting 24.5% crits with 65.9% over 317 attempted swings (DPS was 102.3)

EDIT:
So I took the time to make clone of you, and the results of the parsing were not what I expected. Style 5 doesn't lower your accuracy at all, but basically what it looks like to me (and I could be wrong) is someone at your level of aa's and crit strike gets more total DPS from the 10% haste in /s 2 vs the Critical Increase from /s 5. This was the opposite for the level 65 pally with 0 aa's or crit strike that I used for my first parse.

On a level 65 mob

Using /s 2, GoE, Acumen, Ancient: Sihala's Gift:
Slashing DPS: 265 Critical Hits: 24% Accuracy: 72.3%

Using /s 5, GoE, Acumen, Ancient: Sihala's Gift:
Slashing DPS: 253.7 Critical Hits: 34.1% Accuracy: 72.9%

Using /s 1, GoE, Acumen, Ancient: Sihala's Gift:
Slashing DPS: 238.4 Critical Hits: 24.5% Accuracy: 73.2%

 

[volvov2]

So Gonobn wasnt crazy!

Seriously thats incredibly weird but it makes sense, I wonder how many other stances are broken because of something like this.

 

[Pallish]

lol well, i guess i will now actively use /2 .

 

[Tempus]

So Gonobn wasnt crazy!

Seriously thats incredibly weird but it makes sense, I wonder how many other stances are broken because of something like this.

It is hard to call it broken when it is doing exactly what the style description says it will. With ZERO decrease in accuracy.

But that is just semantics. It would appear the the style is giving diminished returns at the highest levels of power. However, that is something that I can not know for sure as I am not a coder.

 

[Naethyn]

I found it incredibly odd that paladins get the soulfire quest and sk's don't. It just seems like the game designers do not like the SK here. The Sk epic from kunark is saved for a high end blade I see on a lot of 65 players.

It may be true that SK has better aggro, but I doubt you'll find a paladin with trouble holding aggro (stuns). In every other area I find a Paladin superior.

In any case, I cannot think of one situation where I would prefer a SK over a Paladin - even in live.

 

[Syalara]

It just seems like the game designers do not like the SK here.

Any credibility you *may* have had went out the window when you said the above.

 

[Manluas]

I found it incredibly odd that paladins get the soulfire quest and sk's don't. It just seems like the game designers do not like the SK here. The Sk epic from kunark is saved for a high end blade I see on a lot of 65 players.

It may be true that SK has better aggro, but I doubt you'll find a paladin with trouble holding aggro (stuns). In every other area I find a Paladin superior.

In any case, I cannot think of one situation where I would prefer a SK over a Paladin - even in live.

Soulfire is a midlevel paladin quest, rewarding you with a 1hand and a 2hand version of it. SK's get a different quest for 2 pieces of gear. Epics don't exist on here.

Other then that SK aggro is indeed more potential since every aggro toon a pally has can be resisted.

I think we don't need further into this discussion, it's already obvious, that something has to be changed. I hope SK's get some sort of unique boost, maybe via their pets.

 

[Naethyn]

Any credibility you *may* have had went out the window when you said the above.

This is just my view of content, itemization, and utility for the SK and Paladin pre 60. May this change at high end? I wouldn't know. But my experience from live tells me no.

Soulfire is a midlevel paladin quest, rewarding you with a 1hand and a 2hand version of it. SK's get a different quest for 2 pieces of gear. Epics don't exist on here.

Other then that SK aggro is indeed more potential since every aggro toon a pally has can be resisted.

I think we don't need further into this discussion, it's already obvious, that something has to be changed. I hope SK's get some sort of unique boost, maybe via their pets.

The gear rewarded from the thurg sk quests pales in comparison to what the paladins receive.

I cannot remember a time after Kunark where SK was not balanced well with other classes. Priest class + tank > Int caster + tank. It was the itemization, utility, and content that gave the SK the usefulness that we do not find here.

The soulfire is a perfect example of how the balance is even thrown further off.

 

[Ikaa|LoveYums]

my experience from live tells me no.

Your experience from live has 0 relevance here. Stop comparing the two.

 

[Naethyn]

Your experience from live has 0 relevance here. Stop comparing the two.

Any credibility you *may* have had went out the window when you said the above.

This is just my view of content, itemization, and utility for the SK and Paladin pre 60. May this change at high end? I wouldn't know.

Soulfire is a midlevel paladin quest, rewarding you with a 1hand and a 2hand version of it. SK's get a different quest for 2 pieces of gear. Epics don't exist on here.

Other then that SK aggro is indeed more potential since every aggro toon a pally has can be resisted.

I think we don't need further into this discussion, it's already obvious, that something has to be changed. I hope SK's get some sort of unique boost, maybe via their pets.

The gear rewarded from the thurg sk quests pales in comparison to what the paladins receive.

Priest class + tank > Int caster + tank. It is the itemization, utility, and content that gave the SK the usefulness that I do not find here.

The soulfire is a perfect example of how the balance is even thrown further off.

*fixt

 

[Manluas]

The gear rewarded from the thurg sk quests pales in comparison to what the paladins receive.

I have never played a shadowknight but from the pure stats that are found on the Wiki the items seem quite on par. Helms are sort of copycats with different effects and different Mods but I'd say Stun resist is > Mind Shield for sole tankage. Not too sure what the bracer effect does but it's not too shabby compared to the Soulfire. Don't think this statement is really true.


Also, please line out how Soulfire screws the balance.

 

[Thinkmeats]

This is just my view of content, itemization, and utility for the SK and Paladin pre 60. May this change at high end? I wouldn't know.

Soulfire is one of your sticking points but you're saying it's pre-60 experience you have? You must be very fiesty, to be able of completing such a lofty quest pre-60, which you'd have to be able to do for it to be relevant :toot:

Get 65, go rumble some harder dungeons, and see how you feel then.

 

[Naethyn]

Lets examine the soulfire quest.

1. Kill a trash mob in red sun peaks. Loot an uncommon drop.

2. Pick up a ground spawn with IVU in freeport.

3. Granted, high keep is a 65 zone, but your only goal is to zone in and kill a trash mob at the iz for another uncommon drop.

All in all that doesn't seem terribly difficult to me. Especially considering the reward. Two weapons better than most anything buyable. Almost every non raid 65 pal still uses soulfire from what I've seen.

The helms may be similar, but try and compare a 20/20 +3fr 1h AND 36/30 + 3fr 2h with the shadowknight 35/35 bracer with a proc... it just isn't there. How can anyone honestly say the items are nearly comparable is beyond me.

Name something remotely close that a shadow knight has access to. I've yet to find it.

 

[Thinkmeats]

I've yet to find it.

And we've come to the problem! You've only experienced a small portion of the game. If you spend less time being envious of paladins and more time playing, you'll find your complaints to have been misguided.

Also, I thought that by 'soulfire' you meant the old paladin pseudo-epic, which is why I thought you were a very saucy newbie indeed, but I see that one of the paladin's starfall2 is named Soulfire, so you've got my apologies there. But if your entire gripe about your class is that you'd really like another class's starfall2 reward, you have no ground to stand on at all.

 

[Naethyn]

Sorry for the confusion, but I play a Paladin. =)

And you're right, there is a lot more for me to see. That's the reason I'm here. And don't get me wrong. SoD is by far the best Game experience I've ever seen. But with no innate crits, a weaker spell base, poor itemization, and marginally better aggro, I see no reason to play a shadow knight in terms of what class is more capable

 

[NeoReloaded]

marginally better aggro

Aggro spells that can be chain casted.
an AA aggro spell with instant recast

poor itemization

Paladins get a 20/20 1HS sword that is convertable to a 30/36 sword with +3 fire damage, a HI 2/Recovery 1 necklace, a shield that procs a +5 HP buff, and a HI 4 helm with +2 mind resist.

Shadowknights get a bracer with a mana drain proc, a pretty nice BP considering that it can be used effectively at 29+, a damage increment 4 helm with +2 stun resist, and an okay 1HB. the staff is pretty much the worst reward out of the others.

a weaker spell base

Leech Tap AA (2k+ damage, like 5k if you crit), but with a longer recast
Shitty DoTs and DDs, a spell that drains HP and mana from your target and gives it to your group, etc
Feign Death
Gimp pet

no innate crits

They don't get Innate crits. But they do get a lifetap proc buff, not to mention +crit AAs

Also, Rotblades > Soulfire 1HS