Endurance system: BST

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Zaela cool idea the endurance system could help beasts become more popular, and useful overall. I've played a beastlord forever and before ikisith they were horrible. After ikisith the class gained some nice spells which are all highly useful and have improved the class. Of course through ikisith my gear/tomes increased and my dps is solid, but I agree they still need a boost...especially pre-tome and newbie beast because it takes forever to enjoy playing one when all you're good for is your buffs.

Rorne said:
On the bst refuge spell note it might be a cool change to convert Bitter Cold into a better pet proc that works on the same principle (pet proc on mob gives recourse to bst) this could be teamed up with the pre-existing Harsh Winter.
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This is a really cool idea I love it, but there are times when bitter cold/harsh winter proccing without your control through a pet proc could eat a buff slot at the wrong time. I don't know if this is possible, but making the effect go into the song window would make more sense. This would also help the high costing dot of venom be more useful and worthwhile after achieving the point of refuge access in the game.

I plan on checking up on this forum, and will try to make useful suggestions. I don't have time to play as much as I used to, and I want to see beastlords go in the right direction. The class is amazing at the high end, and overlooked a ton.
 
You could probably just have it be a scripted thing with no buff recourse at all for the pet proc. I mean I assume anyways.
 
If that happens, it would be nice to shorten Harsh Winter's cast time from 3s to 1.5s (to match what Bitter Cold is now). It always bugged me that I was losing a combat round by casting Harsh Winter.

Also, another cool idea might be to carry the recourse on the pet - landing the spell would increase the pet's proc damage for the length of the recourse.

Also, just to get them in this thread, two quick helpful beastlord fixes would be to increase the duration of Spiritual Vigor to match SSS, and to remove the 30 second cooldown on the pet haste spells line, ending in Sha's Ferocity.
 
I dunno about making the pet proc do the recourse effect simply because at 65 you're talking about a proc around every ~15 seconds or less on average; either the effect would be on full-time or the duration would have to be so short that you'd constantly be spammed with messages about it. Also not really keen on having to work around to make sure it doesn't stack with the real recourse if it's a non-buff slot thing.

Looking at durations and things, any thought on doubling the duration and reuse of Savagery? On the one hand it would make it a little less annoying, but on the other I don't want to make the reuse so long that it takes forever to reapply it to people after a wipe.
 
I understand about the pet recourse, I was trying to save a precious buff slot if I could. As it is I don't cast Bitter Cold on fights where there are raidwide debuffs, since it won't land or it'll be overwritten when the debuff hits.

As far as Savagery goes, the cooldown would still be roughly half what cunning is, so I think it would be manageable. As long as SV gets extended too I'd call it a win.
 
Zaela said:
Looking at durations and things, any thought on doubling the duration and reuse of Savagery? On the one hand it would make it a little less annoying, but on the other I don't want to make the reuse so long that it takes forever to reapply it to people after a wipe.
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atm it can be applied to 3 chars at the same time with dur inc on. Aslong as this doesn't change, having to cast it less often would be nice.
 
as long as the duration/reuse ratio remains the same it would stay at 3 people. I think it would be a nice change. Since you're bringing up savagery: How about either A) Giving beastlords some regent con gear (unless this happened since i quit) or B) removing the requirement for peridots. Though even just increasing the duration/reuse would help with that annoyance.
 
Also this may not still be the case but summoned gruplok collars were not allowing pets to crit like spectral silks.
 
As a random thought here at 4am after thinking about Druid group healing for a minute: pet group heal proc. Not enough to carry a group and certainly lower (though stackier) than pally group healing. Taking owner Healing Increment into account. Little break-the-mold kind of idea. "Sub-par melee with BUFFS!" isn't very exciting--I was kind of hesitant to increase buff durations because in my mind it actually kind of lowers the chance of a group bringing a BST to 6-man stuff since they can just get the non-Savagery from a buff bot now that the durations are longer. But their DPS is never going to be huge (minus their runic which might be overpowered but we largely ignore really just because BSTs were and are so screwed before getting it) so what the hell.

Maybe that and a more reliable/cooler pet damage proc to choose between the two.

Spirit of Soothing - level 65 - pet proc makes the beastlord proc a 200 (?) point base group heal.
Spirit of Tearing - level 65 - pet proc deals 200 damage and reduces target AC by 50 and resistances by 15 for 1 (maybe 2) ticks, disease (?) based -100 adjust

Also think I'll make pet haste slot count stats unless someone stops me cuz why not.
 
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I didn't know pet haste didn't count stats until I read this thread, so yeah it makes sense that they should count.

The changes implemented so far are excellent, especially the cast time reduction on pet heal. Very very much appreciated!

New pet procs would also be terrific, since right now I use one of two based solely on the mobs' fire resist. Having more choices would be fantastic.
 
Zaela said:
Maybe that and a more reliable/cooler pet damage proc to choose between the two.

Spirit of Soothing - level 65 - pet proc makes the beastlord proc a 200 (?) point base group heal.
Spirit of Tearing - level 65 - pet proc deals 200 damage and reduces target AC by 50 and resistances by 15 for 1 (maybe 2) ticks, disease (?) based -100 adjust

Also think I'll make pet haste slot count stats unless someone stops me cuz why not.
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This would all be great! I wasn't aware that no hp and crit strikes counted on the bst murkspell (that's kind of false marketing :p) and changing this so the stats are actually useful would be wonderful.

The two procs sounds like great options to switch between as well!
 
Sounds like nice spells! Ty Zaela in advance!

Also, yeah didnt know the stats on collar didnt count, would be awesome if that changed =D
 
With runic 1 and 2 and max class tomes, Beasts are hard to out dps by most class's (and with Horok or other high end weapons).
Then factor in Cunning on the casters, thats alot of dps. SV and Savegery also adds some passive dps, and Savagery can give those 50 extra resist your tank just have to have or w/e.

They buff mana regen, then can slow, both magic and disease. Paragon is a nice boost when your clerics or casters just need a little more mana...

Im not sure why Beastlords needs a boost, imo they are a very well rounded class, who serves a major purpose on raids, 6 man and exp groups (being the 2nd best slow cass, doing lots of dps, and has nice buffs).


Oh, they do need 1 thing, a way to manage there aggro, poor bsts cant really do anything to controle there aggro, and with the dps they can do, they sure need it (atleast at later tiers).
 
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If we remove the runic1 and runic2 spells from this conversation instead, since thoose are higher up in game.

A beastlord that is 65 and working on AAs do not have the priviledge of beeing a awesome DPS or even a awesome utility. Before 65 its the same thing.

To compare the class and what needs to be done you cant go compare with the highest tiered beastlords, you need to see it from level 1 and all the way, not the "runic1, runic2 and fully tomed" beastlord, cus most beastlords on server will never get there.

Too much high end thoughts are put into the class changes, nomather what class is beeing discussed.... We cant just look at that, cus then ppl in the startups will lose intresst and quit cus it takes time for most to get to the end tiers.
 
Snake said:
With runic 1 and 2 and max class tomes, Beasts are hard to out dps by most class's (and with Horok or other high end weapons).
Then factor in Cunning on the casters, thats alot of dps. SV and Savegery also adds some passive dps, and Savagery can give those 50 extra resist your tank just have to have or w/e.

They buff mana regen, then can slow, both magic and disease. Paragon is a nice boost when your clerics or casters just need a little more mana...

Im not sure why Beastlords needs a boost, imo they are a very well rounded class, who serves a major purpose on raids, 6 man and exp groups (being the 2nd best slow cass, doing lots of dps, and has nice buffs).


Oh, they do need 1 thing, a way to manage there aggro, poor bsts cant really do anything to controle there aggro, and with the dps they can do, they sure need it (atleast at later tiers).
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I feel like I posted saying this recently already but I can't find it to quote myself, but anyway: Runic: Pack of the Hunter is pretty ridiculously overpowered in any situation where they aren't getting AE'd (which is surprisingly often due to the way a lot of high end scripted AEs work) and really the only reason it hasn't been nerfed multiple times already is because Beastlords are so sad without it. If they were in a better state it would probably be toned down at least.

Savagery is nice, sure, Cunning is good--but decidedly less impressive if you already have a Bard around giving everyone a 13% spell damage modifier that doesn't stack with it--SV I wouldn't really count since long-duration buffs don't usually get looked at that way (and now that it lasts a decent amount of time it's extra SB-and-forget-able, as I mentioned worrying about) Bliss is cool but unless I'm misremembering it tends to be the first Mana Regen buff to be dropped for space and/or because it just isn't needed to hit the cap. Paragon is nice.

Slows, well, nice to have but mostly irrelevant on a raid when you already have a Shaman doing better slows and landing them easier to boot.

In terms of things they actually do in combat, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot and I think I'd have to agree that they do seem to lack a certain something that they are indispensable for; they aren't even the best at shortish combat-enhancing buffs which is most of what they get. And the fact that buff slots aren't cheap will always kind of hamper that kind of contribution with our client.

The stuff I'm doing so far doesn't really fill any of the gaps, I don't think, but I dunno. So long as they are as underplayed as they are right now I don't think we can call them "perfectly fine."
 
Well runic 1 is not very hard to get, and it does do alot of dps.

Also as we where going thrue tier 6-12 the Bsts that we had come and go, they all scaled very well with the rest of the DPS, all but the wizards, who was always, and still is, in a league of there own.
 
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