Endurance system: BST

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Zaela in another thread said:
Considering all the resistance from Warriors and Beastlords toward losing whatever one or two genuinely useful styles they have in favor of a completely new endurance system, I don't have a whole lot of faith in the concept any more. Plus I couldn't think of anything good to do with it for rogues.

But that is for another thread, maybe.
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Well first off I'm not completely sure why it has to be all or nothing, why couldn't you retain one or two useful stances along with a new endurance system? You might even be able to synergize active abilities WITH the stances. Secondly if you are talking about the endurance system you proposed in the first post of this thread the problem was you had zero control over it, at least with /s 7 you can activate it if you have taken aggro and you might live a bit longer but with the build-up meter you'd just be hoping to reach 100% at fortuitous times.
 
Wasn't bst runic 1 nerfed? I swear it used to last forever and stack with itself and now the pets eventually depop (I think?) and if you recast, it depops the first set.
 
The pets last 30s with a 90s recast, so unless there's some trick I'm missing there's no way to overlap them. The pets are great for groups and soloing, and not so great for raiding because of the constant AOEs.
 
It was changed to be that way - when the spell first came out it was broken (targeted self only for swarm pet). Then it got fixed to be infinitely overlaid upon itself, which lead to some serious dps and awesome alligator piles. (1500 dps of gators coming your way!)

Then it got made into its current incarnation.

edit: for a productive suggestion I've always wanted the beastlord to have some ability to ride the pet into battle. I also would like to suggest that whatever other boons might be given to the beastlord that they involve more pets or bigger pets because animal pets are cool.

edit edit: make the pet split into 2 pets when it goes below 60% health but depop the second if it goes back over 60%.
 
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fuwok said:
Wasn't bst runic 1 nerfed? I swear it used to last forever and stack with itself and now the pets eventually depop (I think?) and if you recast, it depops the first set.
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yeah, thats what Kjiel told me it used to be like, I think he even posted of a picture where he (and i thought you) both had out 2-3 casts. I thought the duration/recast were much closer (like both 60 seconds or something), but I could be remembering wrong or it has gotten changed in the year+ since i last played and used it.
 
Here's something that might be more doable -

in lieu of the endurance based stances what if beastlords got "spirit animal" totems that would be put out one at a time and give them abilities based on the form of whatever animal they put out. Maybe this could extend to group members as well.

fleshing out my half-baked idea some more:

[11:04] <@fuwork> maybe a bear to make you tank a little better
[11:04] <@fuwork> a gator for offense?
[11:04] <@fuwork> a snake for dot enhancement (is snake global?)
 
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fuwok said:
It was probably me and him since we are bst bros.
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Bst bros for life. On a fight in Thaz once I had like 44 pets up + Hypedog for some serious dps then it got nerfed...but I haven't played in awhile due to real life, but definitely still look over forums. Seems like the runic 2 that I wasted my life getting sucks now. The dps upgrade from the non-runic (a 60ish droppable spell) to this was horrible anyway (15dps), the only thing that made it useful was the hp and guaranteeing I had that extra constant dps. Sucks for the maybe 2-3 people who actually play beastlord on this server so I guess it will just further make the class be low populated and never desired except maybe a buff.
 
fuwok said:
Here's something that might be more doable -

in lieu of the endurance based stances what if beastlords got "spirit animal" totems that would be put out one at a time and give them abilities based on the form of whatever animal they put out. Maybe this could extend to group members as well.

fleshing out my half-baked idea some more:

[11:04] <@fuwork> maybe a bear to make you tank a little better
[11:04] <@fuwork> a gator for offense?
[11:04] <@fuwork> a snake for dot enhancement (is snake global?)
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you could make them based off the current BST pets making the global model not an issue, though problem then would be making 5 new abilities that were balanced and useful. Or have some that overlap for self+pet or group. Wolf gives +1% group crit, but scaled wolf gives +2% self/pet, bear/tiger both give hp/ac for self/group, and Gator shares the pets proc buff (at some adjusted rate) with bst?
 
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I think that pet thing could be super cool!

Wolf's Howl can be activated once every 3 minutes for 30 seconds of 50% overhaste and 100% runspeed.

Gator's Bite can be activated once every 2 minutes for 30 seconds of +500ATK

Scaled Wolf's Venom can be activated once every 2 minutes for 30 seconds of 100% DoT crits.

Bear's Roar can be activates once every minute for 30 seconds of +500AC

Cat's Walk can be activates once every 3 minutes of 60 seconds of no agro generation.

All abilities buff the BST and pet. Group buffs might be more fun but are harder to balance. BST can only switch pet form out of combat, or just per 10 min?

These ideas are kinda generic but they would make the player think about what would be best for any given fight, or just what matches their play style.
 
I suppose that sentence could have made more sense.

I'm thinking something like wow's shaman totems but animal themed.

From the wow wiki:

A totem is the primary tool used by a Shaman as an instrument of war. Characterized by their immobility and area of effect, the totems embody the Shaman's mastery over the elements. Some totems possess destructive power while others aid and assist allies. Shamanistic cultures outside those of the Horde and Draenei also possess the ability use totems in battle.
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So basically, a physical manifestation (stationary pet or taking the form of the animal maybe) that grants you some powers.
 
Okay then. I guess I don't get it, because I don't see what benefit having a limited radius has over a style.
 
I thought the radius thing could be a cool mechanic that falls into the beasts role as a buff class.

A style is definitely fine. I just wanted some aspect of looking cool to be associated with it. If you make cool looking styles or even just regular looking styles everyone will still like that a lot!

CH1Rx.gif
 
Here is a wishlist for the class:

-Increase the duration of short duration buffs to be reasonable (NOT under 30 minutes)

-Make Rage of the Wild a good spell worth casting OR

-Remove Rage of the Wild, lower the level beastlords get Plague, and replace Rage with a bst only Plague upgrade

-Give bst Pack Spirit or Spirit of Bih`li so they don't have to sow every damn person one at a time

-Make Flurry of Blows actually worth using and better than /s 2

-Lower Venom of the Wild mana cost to still be more than Envenomed Bolt but not almost 500 mana

-Find some solution to having to dedicate two spell gems to Cunning and Savagery due to short duration and dumb dumb recast

-Give bst a pet upgrade before Runic 2 or give them that pet earlier it is ridiculous you have to rely on the 63 pet until tier 12

-Smooth out bst damage and general progression along the tiers so there is not such a drastic upward leap in the very late game (which is skewing overall balance discussion for the class).
 
Wish list looks good, all things that I remember annoying me when I played. The other big one was lack of Reagent Con and using a period every 3 minutes, glancing at wiki that appears to been addressed.

Could Cunning be made so it can only affect 6 targets that aren't the BST at a time? So casting it on Group2 if Group3 already has it would make it land on G2 (and BST), but fade instantly on G3 (and refresh the duration on BST). A possible downside to this is (when I last played at last) the cooldown/duration with some DI&AAs was enough that you could cover 2 groups for about 10-15 minute overlap, which while not ideal (your caster group would then not have it for a while) was at least possible and semi-useful. In exchange for freeing up a spell gem (and the ability to fix accidentally casting on the wrong group), I'd of taken it in a heartbeat.

With Savagery it would be a bit trickier since BST starting off only being able to keep it on 2 targets but eventually can juggle 3 (make the limit2 and DI6+ or 7+ increase it to 3?). The duration would also have to be massively buffed or the gem would still have to be dedicated or constantly swapped.
 
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Yeah I don't know what could be done but there has to be some alternative other than dedicating two spell gems to high recast low duration buffs
 
Rorne said:
Here is a wishlist for the class:

-Increase the duration of short duration buffs to be reasonable (NOT under 30 minutes)

-Make Rage of the Wild a good spell worth casting OR

-Remove Rage of the Wild, lower the level beastlords get Plague, and replace Rage with a bst only Plague upgrade

-Give bst Pack Spirit or Spirit of Bih`li so they don't have to sow every damn person one at a time

-Make Flurry of Blows actually worth using and better than /s 2

-Lower Venom of the Wild mana cost to still be more than Envenomed Bolt but not almost 500 mana

-Find some solution to having to dedicate two spell gems to Cunning and Savagery due to short duration and dumb dumb recast

-Give bst a pet upgrade before Runic 2 or give them that pet earlier it is ridiculous you have to rely on the 63 pet until tier 12

-Smooth out bst damage and general progression along the tiers so there is not such a drastic upward leap in the very late game (which is skewing overall balance discussion for the class).
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Just giving this thread a boost back up the list. I think there are some simple tweaks that could make the class friendlier/better but I mean even if you disagree lets get some more posts in this thread.
 
I don't disagree with any of that (though if there's an implied priority in that list I'd reorder them a bit).

If that last one is the sticking point for the entire discussion, then I'm disappointed. If and when beastlords get really good it's in the context of other classes getting similarly really really good, so I don't think it's unusual to see that leap. T12 anything is an order of magnitude better than T9 of the same class.

So I'm not sure if the lack of response is a fear of beastlords actually being OP as it is just apathy toward the class. A quick search comes up with several threads full of good ideas that have just slowly sunk to the bottom of the ocean. Some of the recent minor changes have been helpful, especially the pet heal reduction time and the SV buff extension, and I'm grateful for those changes, but overall there seems to be some unease as to what the beastlords' role really is, and it's hard to incorporate serious changes to make beastlords a competitive and wanted class without that greater vision.
 
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