Codex of Power Revamp

I'm just going to babble a minute, and insert questions that people in guild asked when I was going through this, hopefully to clarify stuff? Answers are MINE, not staff. Just hoping to condense stuff.

It's already been stated that the tomes will be going into old world exp zones prior to this change. I'm assuming that means level 65 exp zones.

Devs are smart. So I'm guessing your exp potion NPC will say, "You have finished CoP 1, 2, 3, and are 60% into CoP 4. Here are your exp potions."

Platinum reimbursement *should be* simple. You have finished all five CoPs, here's 8k for you. You have finished one CoP and are 40% into CoP two, here's 3.2k, and unused CoP you have bought have been labeled sellable to me for 1.6k (have no exp gained on them, but bought prior to change). Not positive on this, but seems like the easy way to do it.

You get a percentage of the damage/heal bonus for every X amount of exp spent on tomes. So it doesn't matter if you do resist 1 or class tome 1, it's exp based, not tome based. Your percentage will come as a message, as well as a fomelo (hopefully) thing.

NOW OFF TO UNADDRESSED!

I'm with Agik. I'm going to be stuck doing life tap, infection mastery, stat tomes, etc. Opus 1 should at least have another option besides being in Spires. Since you can already get class tome 2s from the refuge vendor via tokens, just make it super expensive (aka more trash/token tomes) & be able to get Opus 1. With tomes being added to old world zones, this should help keep the price DOWN, not up. Even at 1.8k each, 32 tokens would be 57600pp. So people wanting an Opus will be more likely to farm them, then sell ones that are "decent" and not considered "trash".

Additionally, the tome 2's should be given a chance to drop outside of the few places they do (yes, I know there's a couple camps that drop them that you don't need a T10 6 man group for, I'm talking higher availability for the masses). While those of us who have spent 20-25k on Tome 2's (yes, I'm in that category) will be annoyed, oh, well, shit happens. You can save your money from buying trash tomes for Opus 1.
 
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How about the ability to exhange a full cops worth of exp token
for players choice of 5 raid tomes aka opus/class 3/4s. Example trade in 1 completed codex in exchange 5 empty no drop tomes.
 
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Tome 2s are stupid hard to get imo...

Waldoff said:
Not sure about this as of yet. If people actually saved their tomes, this is easy. We just make the tomes droppable and give them a merchant value. Unfortunately I think a majority of people have deleted their tomes after completion. We might be able to give the money back depending on how much experience you put into the tomes, but if it proves too difficult it is not a fatal flaw to the plan.
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Just a thought, but maybe do some thing like:
1. Remove CoP from vendors
2. Check each char for the following:
a. CoP with any XP and reimburse cash for those. Mark each one of these CoPs in variables
b. Query for any banked or bagged CoP that are not in the variables, and give cash for any found.
c. Mark the char as tome check completed.

This should solve the problem without double reimbursing anyone (if the DB is set up so it can be checked this way lol.)
 
I see what people are saying, and it's pretty much, give us Opus 1 before spires. What Daffie said is pretty much what I said, regarding cash. I *do* realize that 8k is nothing to some. For others, that's an upgrade.
 
lynnettell said:
I see what people are saying, and it's pretty much, give us Opus 1 before spires. What Daffie said is pretty much what I said, regarding cash. I *do* realize that 8k is nothing to some. For others, that's an upgrade.
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Opus 1s do drop before spires. I haven't done much Thaz, but when I was there Opus 1s dropped. I'm sure people actively raiding this zone could confirm that still happens.

If there is an easy route to these books, what's the incentive to push into Thaz, Spires and Turruj? Why kill hard content at all if you can just farm platinum or trash tomes and get the books you want?
 
Nwaij said:
Gear.
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I apologize if this is dragging the thread off topic, that's not my intent and we could certainly move the "where do you get Opus 1/2 and Class 3/4" to another thread if that's a thing that should be discussed. I just want to understand the idea a bit.

So, at lowest tier raiding, the benefits are gear and ancients. Then gear and relics. Then gear and archaics. Then gear and runics. Then only gear?

I'm not sure that the gear improvement from Abyss/Yclist/Thaz to Spires is significant enough to make it the only benefit of raiding the zone. It seems similar to the earlier tier progression where the additional benefits existed. I wrote up a more effort, longer post comparing the gear itself as a caster, but deleted it since it got long and didn't feel like it belonged here.
 
Just speaking as a rogue who, through most of the progression you've just described, was doing it only for gear, and even in this instance has yet to get an opus or class III: yeah gear is enough.
 
JDJersey said:
Just speaking as a rogue who, through most of the progression you've just described, was doing it only for gear, and even in this instance has yet to get an opus or class III: yeah gear is enough.
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Whether you individually looted an ancient, relic, or archaic frag wasn't really the point of my post. People in your guild and raid did, and they benefited from those. You, perhaps slightly less directly, also benefited from those drops.

Those drops even helped get people on raids, even if they may not admit it. A chance at a relic spell might help push a tier 2 guild to try a tier 3 monster. Why can't a chance at an opus motivate a guild farming Yclist to step foot into the basement of Spires or try a Thaz mini? A group unwilling to push their progress is going to run out of things to do at their tier. That's kind of how things work, right?
 
enasc said:
Those drops even helped get people on raids, even if they may not admit it. A chance at a relic spell might help push a tier 2 guild to try a tier 3 monster. Why can't a chance at an opus motivate a guild farming Yclist to step foot into the basement of Spires or try a Thaz mini? A group unwilling to push their progress is going to run out of things to do at their tier. That's kind of how things work, right?
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I'm not aware of any guild that ever said "Guys let's do Yclist, that zone is awesome!", instead every guild I ever talked to only went to Yclist with one goal: to progress through it asap so that they could hit Spires, most of them being fully aware that there are pieces needed from Yclist for Runic2. So the will to progress is there, with or without bonus incentive in form of tomes/spells/whatever, gear seems to be enough.

And yes, every group unwilling to push progression will eventually run out of things to do at any given tier. No matter what tier, no matter what is available at that tier.
 
Honestly, for a long time, besides obviously helping my guild progress, the only reason I had any personal interest in Spires or Thaz was the chance at opuses. With the exception of a few pieces, my main personal interest in Tur Ruj was the same, adding class tomes. Keep in mind this is personal interest. I honestly always envied the caster classes that got a side form of progression (various forms of spells) (which maybe why I've given the shaman and wiz shots at being the main). I see both sides in this new argument, but I don't think you should dismiss so easily the suggestion that spreading these tomes out or giving an alternate path to getting them could diminish the alure of the higher raid zones. I'm not even sure I'm against it, but take emberflow for example. How much less attractive would that zone look if you could token those 9 tomes? (well, I suppose you can in a way, but you know what I mean...) I guess a counter-argument would be that once you get that high up in progression, if you don't think those zones are worth it since you can get the tome side of it easier, what else are you gonna do?......
 
Sorry to derail the derail, but I just wanted to say that after thinking about the CoP change a bit I am 100% on board. (Not that my opinion matters.) There are a bunch of reasons why I feel this way, and this is much better than some of the changes proposed early in the thread.
 
Simply put, of all the alternatives mentioned over the years as an alternative to CoP, this is far and away the best solution. The CoP bonus still exists, it is just earned while doing tomes that are more specific in their function than just a bonus. This way, all the vets with the CoP long done maintain their bonus, and newer players/toons can "catch-up" quicker. Only those who have done every available tome already will not gain anything in the short term from this. But, when new tomes come out, they will have the xp potions banked to fill them up. The best thing would be for new tomes to come out with this change, to fill that gap for those people also. (If possible.)
 
The one issue I haven't seen brought up with this change is how cheap Codexes of Power are. This made it feasible to work on your codexes and grind charm money. Now players will need to spend significantly more as they try to work on their charms. Charms which are harder to farm due to the numerous cash nerfs. Overall though this seems like a great step in the right direction.
 
I am all about getting rid of tomes, and codexes of power being gone ( even if they are just worked into your total xp gain in other tomes) is a good start.

Also now i will have a bunch of XP potions.
 
More derail! ;) can we have patch notes for these patches mentioned? Also a section on the forums for just patch notes would be great.
 
I don't understand why CoP's are being removed. Is there a real reason, or at least an imagined one? I do see a problem with giving people exp potions for their CoP's if they are removed. The CoP's aree a great deal more exp than other tomes. It would be easy to waste potion exp on a tome that can't hold all of a particular potion when used. So, use a potion until you're at 90%, then go grind to finish it? Then repeat until all potions are used up in order to avoid this loss? The other problem is that many people re already running out of tomes to exp so removing the CoP's and providing exp potions will push them that much closer to hitting the "why bother logging in" point. My paladin, for example, is adventure banded with 5 others for the express reason to slow his exp down so I don't run out of tomes. Can we make adventure bands bigger - say 12 or 18 (lol)? In my opinion, keep the CoP's and increase the amount of exp in all other tomes to at least match what is required of a CoP.
 
Ryst said:
I don't understand why CoP's are being removed. Is there a real reason, or at least an imagined one? I do see a problem with giving people exp potions for their CoP's if they are removed. The CoP's aree a great deal more exp than other tomes. It would be easy to waste potion exp on a tome that can't hold all of a particular potion when used. So, use a potion until you're at 90%, then go grind to finish it? Then repeat until all potions are used up in order to avoid this loss? The other problem is that many people re already running out of tomes to exp so removing the CoP's and providing exp potions will push them that much closer to hitting the "why bother logging in" point. My paladin, for example, is adventure banded with 5 others for the express reason to slow his exp down so I don't run out of tomes. Can we make adventure bands bigger - say 12 or 18 (lol)? In my opinion, keep the CoP's and increase the amount of exp in all other tomes to at least match what is required of a CoP.
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The exp potions were already stated to be a small amount each (think, like 1-2AAs worth) so the scenario you're talking about shouldn't be much of a problem. I don't think this change is aimed at players like you, the point is probably to remove the perceived barrier CoPs posed for a lot of classes before they feel competitive/can get in to Ikisith tomes. I assume your paladin is either a very old character, a character used by lots of people, or you have a lot of play time - maybe a combination of those but if you balanced things against people on the extreme end of time investment capability it is bad for the majority of people on the server.. or well, what used to be the majority before they all gave up and left.
 
Ryst said:
In my opinion, keep the CoP's and increase the amount of exp in all other tomes to at least match what is required of a CoP.
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CoP are long because they were the best tomes in the game. CoP length tomes for 2 magic resist sounds silly.
 
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