Codex of Power Revamp

as it is now you can see people who have already grinded out all of the tomes possible (ie Ishlana) who are under tier 10. what would people like that do once they completed all of the possible tomes they could get? complain about wanting something else?

Plenty of games have terminal xp systems and do just fine. If the only appeal to logging onto a game and killing monsters is very very very slowly filling up tome xp bars then the game is shit.

as it stands right now the server doesnt get updated / worked on as much as the player base would like. all this would do is add more work to an already short staff.

This line could be used against any proposition.

I think the path of separating tomes is the best one as it would still give people a place to dump exp even though it doesn't really give them shit.

to take away tomes and not have something to take its place will just make the already exp grave yard even worse.

So punishing hybrids so people can accomplish nothing is a good option? Seriously?

If the xp "grave yard" is such a concern then maybe the endgame needs xp'able items or even some revision to adventure bands that allows a character to contribute xp without taking any back.
 
How about this:

Remove CoP.
Rebalance encounter HP from the top tier down.
Tell the crybabies to fuck off because they would've spent just as much time slaying virtual dragons regardless of whether or not there was an actual point to it.

"Baww I spent OVER 9000 HOURS grinding tomes."
"So?"
"Bawww"

I don't really see how this is a problem.
 
If this:

What was once meant as something for people to slowly accomplish (and that was expected only a few people would do) has become a near-necessity for a new player to get him or herself into a raid guild. Ironically, perception has it that even guilds that are in tiers that were released before CoPower even existed, require at least some time spent into CoPowers.

Even worse, the CoPower is boring as all hell. You just kill massive amounts of things, watch the little thing tick up, and gain uninteresting, base power bit by bit.

Said this:

What was once meant as something for people to slowly accomplish (and that was expected only a few people would do) has become a near-necessity for a new player to get him or herself into a raid guild. Ironically, perception has it that even guilds that are in tiers that were released before Charms even existed, require at least some time spent into Charms.

Even worse, the Charm Farming is boring as all hell. You just kill massive amounts of things, watch the little thing tick up, and gain uninteresting, base power bit by bit.

I'm not sure that anybody would bat an eye. I feel like codexes are around so the players have a tiny bar to watch move while they endlessly farm platinum for a charm. Other things that codexes and charm farming have in common: they cause high level players to hang out in low tier zones annihilating trivial mobs en masse.
 
I just hit lvl 64 today on my cleric and am very close to 64 on my beastlord. The only thing I can say on this topic is any time a 65 talks to me they have all said that at 65 prepare for the worst and most tedious grind of my life. I've already had two friends quit in their thirties due to the idea of tomes, hopefully I will make it up and over the wall. I have met some cool people that are extremely helpful(Thade, Lindstrom, and Habs!) so I'd really like to stick it out here and play with them. Am I excited to raid and grind tomes? Yes and no. I can't say for sure but I will probably end up finding another server/game to play once I have spent the time grinding my first Codex and realize I have another 4 to go + class tomes just to be even remotely close to another raiding beastlord or cleric.

Mindless grinds in games don't make a game hard or make someone better at their class. It is also a very poor excuse for "spending time with your friends" because if they were your friends you would have things to do regardless of needing to waste hundreds of hours grinding for tomes/charms. You could be playing alts or crafting or farming or going to zones you haven't gone to before, or questing. Time and time has shown game developers that when you put in something that could make characters that much stronger - it will end up a requirement. Budzone nailed my thoughts to the finest degree. People will sink as many hours as they want into a game with or without time sinks. As an outsider to the end game, this thread alone makes me hesitant on wanting to advance.
 
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Sorry, this post turned out to be longer than I expected but I felt this needed a reply. I hope this does not come off as negative, I just wanted to give another perspective as a response to your post. All emphasis is mine.

I just hit lvl 64 today on my cleric and am very close to 64 on my beastlord. The only thing I can say on this topic is any time a 65 talks to me they have all said that at 65 prepare for the worst and most tedious grind of my life. I've already had two friends quit in their thirties due to the idea of tomes, hopefully I will make it up and over the wall. I have met some cool people that are extremely helpful(Thade, Lindstrom, and Habs!) so I'd really like to stick it out here and play with them. Am I excited to raid and grind tomes? Yes and no. I can't say for sure but I will probably end up finding another server/game to play once I have spent the time grinding my first Codex and realize I have another 4 to go + class tomes just to be even remotely close to another raiding beastlord or cleric.

Worst grind? It is all about what you enjoy doing. You don't have to be 50+ tomes to do things in this game. Hell, you don't even need tomes at all up to like t8-9 or w/e. Obviously, they make it easier though (as any character enhancement does). But before tomes (even the CoPs), there was nothing to dump the exp into after the original set of 400-500 aas and eventually, you need something to put exp into because to me, the worst thing is getting exp and having it go into *poof* thin air. At least having a huge wall i have someplace to put the exp that I get.

Also, a currently raiding beastlord already has a head start, if both of you were to progress in exp points at the same rate, you would never catch up until the other bst/clr were finished and didn't have a place to put exp points. So, you have to work much harder if you want to catch up, this is no different than any other game where there is established players (be it cornering the tradeskill market, locking down targets, economies).

Mindless grinds in games don't make a game hard or make someone better at their class. It is also a very poor excuse for "spending time with your friends" because if they were your friends you would have things to do regardless of needing to waste hundreds of hours grinding for tomes/charms. You could be playing alts or crafting or farming or going to zones you haven't gone to before, or questing.

Farm exp points, while farming for charms you gain exp (usually), while questing you usually get exp (from monsters you kill), would you rather it not go anywhere or have a place to put it? As you play this game, you eventually just get exp by doing things (raiding is another example). The problem that (as far as i understand, i wasn't around when they were first added or if i was i didnt know what they were) CoPs were to solve was this problem of having nothing left to put exp points into.

I like spending time with friends on this game but while i spend time, I like to do things to progress. I feel like your stance is you don't want too many things to put your exp into because it is too daunting? I am not sure I get what you really want. There are many people who just enjoy the game and don't grind tomes but for the people that do or the people that have been around long enough that run out of things to do, they have the "daunting" tasks. Sometimes, just exping with friends IS the "things" to do.

Time and time has shown game developers that when you put in something that could make characters that much stronger - it will end up a requirement. Budzone nailed my thoughts to the finest degree. People will sink as many hours as they want into a game with or without time sinks. As an outsider to the end game, this thread alone makes me hesitant on wanting to advance.

So, putting stronger/better items/things in the game isn't desirable? You basically said to the devs to stop developing and adding new things because it eventually ends up as a requirement (i.e. relics are good examples of this other than cops). But when there are nice things in the game that are challenging to get, people decide to not hang out with the people that don't have those nice things yet, it is the choice that some players make (unfortunately). Also, quite frankly sometimes if you don't have nice things, you can not do content that requires those nice things in order to not waste time dying repeatedly.

tl;dr - Don't fret, dont need tomes for a lot of the raiding content anyways, tomes are there so that you don't run out of things to do, just kill pixels with friends.
 
He is right in that you can't make raid-friends appear out of nowhere if you want to raid but haven't got the time to fill tomes or buy charms. I wish those things were genuinely skippable (you're lying if you argue that someone would let this fresh 65 person into a raid where you want big juicy heals on your tank) so that Detroit could experience some of the great, memorable raid content.
That is really what my good memories of this game are about. Not grinding 60+ tomes (mostly other people gathered exp on my paladin), and certainly not farming money alone. The raid content. Learning strategies. That's the meat and potatoes of SoD. Just sucks that you have to eat 50 pounds of uncooked grits before getting to that delicious meal.
 
Why do you feel there needs to be something to "put" your exp into? I probably put more hours into playing Scars of Velious than I did any content with AA's that Sony release and we had nothing to "put our exp into". It sounds like you just need justification for the amount of time you play this game. either way, I'm not going to argue with you or anyone. You have your opinions and I have mine. If I had played this server almost since 2008 I would probably want to protect things I "put exp into", too.
 
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If I had played this server almost since 2008 I would probably want to protect things I "put exp into", too.

I want to protect the things I would like to accomplish in the future (I am not finished with the CoP yet), yes. I enjoy this game and I do not really want to reduce the amount of things I can do (I am not exactly the biggest fan of questing in everything, though I like doing it some). I'm sorry you feel that I am being biased, my fomelo should have been proof enough of my intentions.

Anywho, for a dev/admin, is there any new information regarding the CoP revamp? I am curious. Thanks.
 
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Why do you feel there needs to be something to "put" your exp into? I probably put more hours into playing Scars of Velious than I did any content with AA's that Sony release and we had nothing to "put our exp into". It sounds like you just need justification for the amount of time you play this game. either way, I'm not going to argue with you or anyone. You have your opinions and I have mine. If I had played this server almost since 2008 I would probably want to protect things I "put exp into", too.

Honestly, doing CoP/Tomes/Charms is not nearly as fun as doing your first 250-300 AA. The problem isn't the tomes/CoP, it is the fact that you get really cool stuff from AA and when you are done with them you are ready to raid. Raid xp rewards are null compared with the amount of xp needed to complete even 1 tome or CoP (and you are most likely not going to get your charm from raiding.) This is in conjunction with the fact that people say you are pretty much required to work CoP/Tomes/charms outside of raid times.

This means you are forced into the same few xp zones for almost all of your Tomes/CoP/Charm farming, and if you are raiding on top of it you better not have a job and/or family.

It is ultimatly the fault of the way live EQ was structured, and then how SoD built on that. If you want to get rid of the long XP grinds IMO the raid game needs to be fully revamped to accommodate a more casual player and also each raid needs to scale with the number of players at the raid. If these things happen, you can give up the long grinds. Until then, play SoD!
 
EQ was never structured, in any way/shape/form, into requiring players to grind platinum for charms and doing anything like grinding tomes. Each expansion had the small amount of AA's and that was that. The only extension of AA's I can think of are leadership AA's and the only platinum sink I can even think of was spells/combat ability tomes and even then, you weren't grinding for months. This is solely an SoD feature. The raid game shouldn't need a full revamp to accommodate casual players at all.

Either way, it is what it is. The developers of this server ultimately make the decisions and we go with what they pick.
 
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Just puttin this out there: http://shardsofdalaya.com/fomelo/fomelo.php?char=gargate

I don't raid anymore, just plat grind when I have time since most of CW is off climbing the murder mountain of FF14 but as you can see I have almost 30 tomes, an ethernal (236k until supreme) runic 1/2 complete, fomelo doesn't show my murk spell or murk gate clicky, nor my dreadlands gate clicky, bunch of other gate clickies, combine armor, alot of gear that required a good bit of questing , AND a bunch of trade skills. Not to mention my 2 other toons that have 250 mining and 250 fishing.

The reason why I list such things is that if you are smart with your play time you can raid 2-3 days a week, grind, quest, and still have a job where you work close to 50hrs a week and be a single parent. Its all about time management. (and yes I was a scrub fresh 65 once to, its all about gettin to know cool people)

P.S. the plat grind is boring but like many others posted before, long after I retire from SoD I will remember the strats, my fellow guildies and the good times we had together.
 
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EQ was never structured, in any way/shape/form, into requiring players to grind platinum for charms and doing anything like grinding tomes. Each expansion had the small amount of AA's and that was that. The only extension of AA's I can think of are leadership AA's and the only platinum sink I can even think of was spells/combat ability tomes and even then, you weren't grinding for months. This is solely an SoD feature. The raid game shouldn't need a full revamp to accommodate casual players at all.

Either way, it is what it is. The developers of this server ultimately make the decisions and we go with what they pick.

I don't know about sod being the only grind. I did many key quests on live including vp and vt. I'd call those time sinks. I also remembering aaing when they first came out and xping them were brutal.
 
My personal experience on grinding tomes...

The first two tomes went pretty slow. I tried to get the best xp for the time spent, and ended up travelling around quite a bit. Like most, I did more worrying about it than actual work for it.

Before starting the third tome, I did some thinking. I watched my progress on fomelo. I tried to make sure I got 2% xp in the tome everyday. It was really no problem. Even with my play style at that time, which was on again off again all day, I could get the 2% pretty easily, and in some days even more. In less than 50 days I finished COP 3.

I did the same thing for COPs 4 & 5.

At that rate you could finish all 5 tomes in 250 days. Which is 8 months and a few days. For the power difference between no tomes and 5 tomes, I didn't think this was such a huge grind. My opinion.

A further note: For my first 3 tomes I was not even in a guild at all. Shortly after finishing #3 I joined Exodus as a non-raider. It wasn't until I finished COP 5 that I started raiding with them, so I did all my COP grinding in BOE gear,
 
Maybe there is a way to help out the more casual players thereby increasing or resetting their xp mods the longer they are not logged in. For example if player A xps one day and gets his xp mods on a couple zones down to 25% maybe if he hasn't logged on for ~2 weeks they get bumped back up to 50% and 2 weeks after that it gets bumped up to 100% which is max.
 
My personal experience on grinding tomes...

... wasnt that bad,I did what I always used to do,runnin CMal for alts/alts of friends/newbies,
grinding faction in Murk,camping QS (without luck),playing my 55 box (a lot),rarely doing pure
xp groups.Took me ~ a year until finishing CoP5,overall it wasnt that bad,I felt rewarded
every time I finished a CoP.
Now what left me really disappointed was my 1st class tome,manual of condemnation,ability
is almost completly useless,adding a *melee* "proc"(?) to a class which has no melee crit AAs
but spell casting fury.

Generally it might be better to make it so that AAS take longer to get and CoPs need less xp,
overall xp needed for CoPs and AAs should stay as it is.
 
The problem is someone who plays almost every day wouldn't benefit from that at all Atada. As BlackHeart said, he grinded at least 2% every day and it took him 250 days to get his 5 tomes done. Moving to the new client may give this server some new tools and such but I really hope there is a change to the tomes/charm idea. People keeping telling me charms and tomes don't matter but leach xp groups are the only groups I ever really find and they only want my Beastlord and you all know leachers don't see loot/split. Nobody replies when I send tells for any other kind of xp group. I haven't gotten a reply yet on any pug that I have tried to join(whether it was a couple T4 relic snipes or T6/T7). So I'm finding quite a large disconnect between the forums and the game. Perhaps I am going about this progression entirely wrong but I'll give this server another week or so before I head back to P99.

Could remove both or somehow have a basic charm "evolve" that gives the specializations as you progress through your MQ and Ikisith content. Takes care of charms + the five CoP's in one shot. Don't get me wrong, I don't think anyone should have power taken away from their characters or feel their time spent grinding should be stripped away. I am just trying to help throw ideas around so when the server sees the client upgrade and possibly join the other login server, new players don't run to the forums and read about these things and quit before trying.
 
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Either remove both or somehow have a basic charm "evolve" as you progress through your MQ and Ikisith content.

This is basically the seeker aug you get from the MQ. It advances through the refuge Ikisith content when you complete certain stages.

Edit: Now, maybe the stats for the augs need to increase more between each aug version from what they are so it is more like a "charm" or something, idk.
 
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Perhaps I am going about this progression entirely wrong but I'll give this server another week or so before I head back to P99.

Don't do it man. I know they revamped the raid scene over there, but it is still awful. SoD really blows it away.

I have seen a lot of action in the SoD guild forums lately, and I know there are several guilds willing to take cool guys who have play time for grouping. Once you make some friends and are in an active guild, raiding will be no problem.
 
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