Codex of Power Revamp
- Thread starter Waldoff
- Start date
DernipDaGnome
Dalayan Adventurer
Mega tanks might be available to some folks but usually not to new folks coming up. Speaking to back in the day experience, one probably would find oneself in a similar situation being fresh to the server, not having access to the resources and xp spots that you do now. Regardless of how codex experience was, I want to stress how important these reforms could be at paving the way for the next generation of SoD nerds. I personally know of folks that either stopped playing for a good while or quit the game entirely once reaching CoPs. That is no good in my book.
So, they reached CoP and quit? The quitting I can certainly understand, I've taken breaks myself. There can be any number of reasons a person stops playing. I'm just trying to understand and maybe discuss some of the why, and what we can do to reduce those before just making a knee-jerkish reaction of "CoP is too hard, let's make it easier"
Could they have quit because each Codex of Power (and tomes in general) is a large jump in xp requirement from AA?
Could they have quit because upon reaching the 18-man raid game, there's a significant jump in time commitment that is required to complete a raid (talking start to finish time, not log in 5 times a week time)?
Could they have quit because they were unable to find a raid spot on tier due to class or lack of xp?
Could they have quit because they just had more important things to do in their life away from SoD?
I imagine that the answer to all of those is yes. I'm just not sure that the xp requirement jump is the thing that makes people quit. Without any facts to back it up, I think it's the jump in commitment. Being in game for the time to see progress in CoP or on an 18-man raid can be a lot higher than to fly through a few AA and tick off Innate Magic Protection 5.
That being said, if that really is the problem I currently have no idea how to fix it. We make our own raids slow. A quick number change probably isn't going to make it better.
The COPs shouldn't be changed. The reason they take a lot of exp is because they give such a huge gain, even if your toon capitalizes mostly from one component of the COP. In the end every toon will want to have them all done and be able to take advantage of every aspect. The most important component is that each COP makes you overall 4% better. Compare that to another tome like avoidance that takes about half the xp And only gives a 1% gain or cold mastery that gives 2% gain. It seems to be fair in regards to the exp.
If CoP is to be revamped.
1: wait for 3.0
2: convert the exp/aa's needed now to AA's (reducing the wall by gaining benefits of the exp faster)
3: change CoP effects to be better tailored to each class there by giving every class an equal benefit.
If the goal of the revamp is to reduce the wall (each codex is a grind not just all 5) then making the tomes take 60% longer to finish 1 will not help. Further more even though overall exp would be reduced it would create a gap (another wall) between class's because some would get the full benefits faster.
Win win yes no?
1: wait for 3.0
2: convert the exp/aa's needed now to AA's (reducing the wall by gaining benefits of the exp faster)
3: change CoP effects to be better tailored to each class there by giving every class an equal benefit.
If the goal of the revamp is to reduce the wall (each codex is a grind not just all 5) then making the tomes take 60% longer to finish 1 will not help. Further more even though overall exp would be reduced it would create a gap (another wall) between class's because some would get the full benefits faster.
Win win yes no?
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Dinadass
Dalayan Pious Diety
CoPs already give bonuses before they are complete. If you're halfway through CoP1, you are getting a 2% bonus, for example.
I know this as well Susvain but when newer players that might be discouraged by the slow movement of the tome (which I guess the revamp is aimed at), it would give them more of an accomplishment feel to say "hey sweet I finished rank blah blah of w/e aa line" "then ok 4% down."
Delete COPs and turn them into more class tomes and finish the missing class tomes.
Cops are too powerful to pass up and too much exp for most people to do. They also are not exciting at all, the changes are so small and gradual that you never really feel them working.
Starting AA is really fun, you char gets much stronger very quickly and you get exciting new abilities. As you finish your fun and important AA it becomes a boring grind but you finish them up and look forward to tomes. I personally always looked forward to class tomes the most because like those early AA they changed/enhanced/added something new to the class and that is much more exciting to me then a passive increase like +5str or like CoP and many other tomes.
When someone finishes there 500 or so AA grind they jump into a CoP and watch the exp bar not move. They probably check their fomelo often just to make sure they are actually getting exp it moves so slow. This is not an exciting transition to tomes, this is a nightmare of a wall people run face first into.
Having 5-6+ class tomes instead of 1-3 would give people plenty of things to exp but not be a huge wall like CoPs but a collection of choices people could make similar to AA. People who solo/duo can get the tomes more useful for them first and raiders can power through raid tomes/ all of them as raiders always have.
We would take a 20% hit but the staff seems to think people are scaling too much past t11 anyway, that is mostly due to CoP. Removing them would sharply decline the power ramp up while new class tomes would let classes have new, exciting abilities people would look forward to and let the classes be balanced on a class by class base with tomes tailored to fill gaps. Also CoP like tomes could be added that are smaller and more specialized to help balance melee vs casters. Right now melee feel weak? add a new tome:
Tome of melee mastery ranks 1-5, 1% dmg inc to melee per tome
Melee still undertuned?
Tome of piercing strikes ranks 1-5, 10 ac pen per tome
ect ect, if you want to get rid of CoPs get rid of them, don't let them linger around as a half fixed problem by splitting them into 1/3s, delete them and make something new and better, yeah yeah yeah 3.0 I know.
Cops are too powerful to pass up and too much exp for most people to do. They also are not exciting at all, the changes are so small and gradual that you never really feel them working.
Starting AA is really fun, you char gets much stronger very quickly and you get exciting new abilities. As you finish your fun and important AA it becomes a boring grind but you finish them up and look forward to tomes. I personally always looked forward to class tomes the most because like those early AA they changed/enhanced/added something new to the class and that is much more exciting to me then a passive increase like +5str or like CoP and many other tomes.
When someone finishes there 500 or so AA grind they jump into a CoP and watch the exp bar not move. They probably check their fomelo often just to make sure they are actually getting exp it moves so slow. This is not an exciting transition to tomes, this is a nightmare of a wall people run face first into.
Having 5-6+ class tomes instead of 1-3 would give people plenty of things to exp but not be a huge wall like CoPs but a collection of choices people could make similar to AA. People who solo/duo can get the tomes more useful for them first and raiders can power through raid tomes/ all of them as raiders always have.
We would take a 20% hit but the staff seems to think people are scaling too much past t11 anyway, that is mostly due to CoP. Removing them would sharply decline the power ramp up while new class tomes would let classes have new, exciting abilities people would look forward to and let the classes be balanced on a class by class base with tomes tailored to fill gaps. Also CoP like tomes could be added that are smaller and more specialized to help balance melee vs casters. Right now melee feel weak? add a new tome:
Tome of melee mastery ranks 1-5, 1% dmg inc to melee per tome
Melee still undertuned?
Tome of piercing strikes ranks 1-5, 10 ac pen per tome
ect ect, if you want to get rid of CoPs get rid of them, don't let them linger around as a half fixed problem by splitting them into 1/3s, delete them and make something new and better, yeah yeah yeah 3.0 I know.
Salarus
Dalayan Master
Don't mean to chime in too late here, but have been away for awhile.
I never liked CoP, and i honestly think replacing a % per significatn achievement would really help the xp gap.
For instance:
Finish MQ part 5 - 1% incase to power
Hit 200 AA - 1% increase to power
Things along those lines. A full balanced list of streamlined objectives not too diffiuclt of course would need to be supplied, but I can't imagine that would be much of a problem to come up with.
I never liked CoP, and i honestly think replacing a % per significatn achievement would really help the xp gap.
For instance:
Finish MQ part 5 - 1% incase to power
Hit 200 AA - 1% increase to power
Things along those lines. A full balanced list of streamlined objectives not too diffiuclt of course would need to be supplied, but I can't imagine that would be much of a problem to come up with.
Salarus
Dalayan Master
Its a 1% increase at a certain artibrary mark. As a bonus. Just really a way of finding mainstreamed milestones to advancing a character and adding the bonuses at those points.
Nebi
Dalayan Pious Diety
why would there be a bonus for not doing anything? the bonus you get from AAs is because you worked on getting the AAs. Getting a just because seems rather silly.
I think the real reason why people are bitching about codex is because it takes more time than regular tomes and makes the time to get to the "end game". same high end people will get the same buff and the distance is still going to be the same.
people want to get there faster not have the same gap.
Salarus
Dalayan Master
I think you may be missing the point i'm trying to make on this, let me try to clarify.
Elminating grinding 5 codex's while still giving people the 20% bonus from them would in fact decrease the time it takes to get end game. The issue was how. By randomly distributing the bonuses out to things players will be doing *anyway* it would reduce that time.
Yes, the 200 aa mark was artibrary, but that is a random example. There are plenty of milestones while advancing your character where the % gain could be implimented.
Elminating grinding 5 codex's while still giving people the 20% bonus from them would in fact decrease the time it takes to get end game. The issue was how. By randomly distributing the bonuses out to things players will be doing *anyway* it would reduce that time.
Yes, the 200 aa mark was artibrary, but that is a random example. There are plenty of milestones while advancing your character where the % gain could be implimented.
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Nebi
Dalayan Pious Diety
as it is now you can see people who have already grinded out all of the tomes possible (ie Ishlana) who are under tier 10. what would people like that do once they completed all of the possible tomes they could get? complain about wanting something else?
as it stands right now the server doesnt get updated / worked on as much as the player base would like. all this would do is add more work to an already short staff.
I think the path of separating tomes is the best one as it would still give people a place to dump exp even though it doesn't really give them shit.
to take away tomes and not have something to take its place will just make the already exp grave yard even worse.
as it stands right now the server doesnt get updated / worked on as much as the player base would like. all this would do is add more work to an already short staff.
I think the path of separating tomes is the best one as it would still give people a place to dump exp even though it doesn't really give them shit.
to take away tomes and not have something to take its place will just make the already exp grave yard even worse.
Salarus
Dalayan Master
Now that we are finally on the same page -
I don't really disagree with the first 3 points. Tomes are still being added into the game, which would give said people more things to do in its place was my thinking on that. I would however also point out that completeting *every* tome takes an insane amount of time, and very few newer people are going to come up against that wall. For people who already have compelted them, it takes nothing away either. And for those who do eventually come up against that wall, I really don't think 1.6 (current) tomes worth of xp would delay them that that long from hitting said wall again.
On the point of decreasing the level gap between fresh players and high end would benefit from the remove of these tomes entirely. It would let people who can't find groups as they are fresh receive greater benefit from finishing quests (Faction, Main Quest etc) which are all things that should be completed if they wish to make it to that high end game anyway.
tl;dr
Pros:
- The fallout of removing the tomes entirely would have a very minimal impact
- It would decrease the xp require to advance further than the split to 3 tomes idea
- It would give more incentive for fresh players to pursue quests
Cons:
- Dev time? I don't know how hard it would be to implement flags or rewards for finishing these. I'd imagine for quests it would be simple, but compiling and coding a list may take awhile?
- A player who has done *every* other tome in the game would be denied the opportunity to put 1.6 (current) tomes worth of xp into something.
Moraelintz
Dalayan Elder
I don't like that idea at all. What then would be your theoretical milestones that you want to implement as the new places to get the power gain?
1% every time you get an updated MQ aug?
1% for each banner in the vah?
1% for each rank of trader quest?
I do not think 'forcing' people to quest is the answer either. There are those of us that HATE questing and would much rather kill monsters with our friends over and over again and get yellow messages.
1% every time you get an updated MQ aug?
1% for each banner in the vah?
1% for each rank of trader quest?
I do not think 'forcing' people to quest is the answer either. There are those of us that HATE questing and would much rather kill monsters with our friends over and over again and get yellow messages.
Tevinter
Dalayan Pious Diety
Pretty much this. If questing was required to get CoP upgrades I would not play this game.
Salarus
Dalayan Master
While I see the point, the idea isn't entirely based around only questing. I would keep the MQ on it, as well as the faction aug since those are things that really *should* be done.
Beyond that, you can throw out things like "killed xxxx mobs" "reached xxxx AA's"
However the idea seems fairly unpopular so while I still think it would be amazing, i'll drop it ^_^
Beyond that, you can throw out things like "killed xxxx mobs" "reached xxxx AA's"
However the idea seems fairly unpopular so while I still think it would be amazing, i'll drop it ^_^
DetroitIsCold
Dalayan Beginner
Just curious if the developers have somewhat chosen a path for this decision. Being a 5 man crew leveling up, we are pretty interested in this decision. I have grouped with --two-- people so far from 1-28 so anything that increases that I am in full support of. The server has been enjoyable so far so either way we will continue to play here regardless of the decision.
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