Codex of Power Revamp

[huey]

While I'm not a big fan of massive changes like this, I personally don't feel nearly and strongly as others towards either end on this. I see positives and negatives. As was mentioned, one of the major measuring sticks in determining a player's committment to his or her character will be lessened/lost. I also worry that it's a little op (from the perspective of my wizard that was about to start codexes) for some classes to be able to get a huge 20% boost only spending a third of what it took before. (kinda cheap for a 20% boost basically)

Really though I can't shake feeling like you're eventually gonna end up doing the lesser needed ones anyway if you make it that far (I'm just gonna buy the new ones all back on the monk, as I was close to tossing xp into heal tomes anyway..). If you're running out of stuff to do then don't only buy the wizard ones, etc. I've always been personally on the less popular end of the arguments where I thought that people need to have to do the same work the rest of us did, but between all the tier jumping and in general the population loss at least at the higher half of the game, I'm a lot more indif on it all, and kinda feel like this won't really hurt anyone unless they're just worried about class and character competition or something.

I'm sure there's a plan in place, but how's it gonna work as far as having to buy all the new ones over? Between some type of refund on this and on all the xp, this seems like it's gonna be a massive pain in the ass for the dev types, and something large enough in scale that it has pretty large potential for something horrible happening with it, lol.

 

[Bridger]

Mages already have to do something like 11 extra tomes compared to say a Wizard.

To say that they have to do 2 more of the new CoP's over and above what a Wizard would need is utterly ridiculous.

Good way to kill the class off.

 

[Animand]

That's blowing things a bit out of proportion. It's not that great a discrepancy, and it's definitely not going to kill off a class.

 

[Gargate]

Mid tier hybrids/pet class's will be under a sever disadvantage to their pure caster/melee counter parts. IMO fail waiting to happen.

 

[Raxton]

If the proposed new system looks that bad to hybrids perhaps the staff would be kind enough to allow those disgruntled hybrids the choice to stick with the current system instead of being forced into this apparently unwelcome new codex system.

 

[Nwaij]

Mid tier hybrids/pet class's will be under a sever disadvantage to their pure caster/melee counter parts. IMO fail waiting to happen.

Hybrids, who by the very name are capable of doing more then one thing, need to do more tomes then classes who are based on doing one thing explicitely. What a surprise.

Mages already have to do something like 11 extra tomes compared to say a Wizard.

To say that they have to do 2 more of the new CoP's over and above what a Wizard would need is utterly ridiculous.

Good way to kill the class off.

I remember you crying out loud over mage pet heals being unable to keep the pet up in any scenario. So this leaves me to question why you think heal tome is in any way required for mages?

Now pet classes, priests, an hybrids need all 550 aas to maximize effectiveness.

Healers, if they want to do their main job, only need one of them - the healing tome. If they decide that they need to maximize things wich aren't in their original job description (like DPS), then they do need to do extra tomes.

 

[Dinadass]

Monk dps is 30-50% spells depending on weapons so anyone that thinks they can just do the melee dps tome and call it a day is wrong. Rogues too but to a lesser extent.

I'd be happier if the exp requirement for CoPs was just reduced but the proposed system is still better overall than what we have now.

 

[Gargate]

huh I always thought a hybrid by its very nature could do more then one thing but the trade off was that you can't do either of those things as well as the pure version of those class's. guess I was mistaken, they have reduced versions and must work harder.

 

[Bridger]

Hybrids, who by the very name are capable of doing more then one thing, need to do more tomes then classes who are based on doing one thing explicitely. What a surprise

Well it is a surprise really.
There is absolutely NO reason why that HAS to be the case.

The fact that past (poor IMO) decisions have lead to this unsatisfactory position in NO WAY justifies making it even worse.

 

[Moraelintz]

Healers, if they want to do their main job, only need one of them - the healing tome. If they decide that they need to maximize things wich aren't in their original job description (like DPS), then they do need to do extra tomes.

Then why not take away their nukes and dots. Shamans can put some pretty decent dps out melee ing and dotting.

 

[Nwaij]

Then why not take away their nukes and dots. Shamans can put some pretty decent dps out melee ing and dotting.

Never said they couldn't, but it is not their main job on raids. And as Woldaff stated in the initial post, this change is meant to dismantle the CoPower iron raid curtain. Pretty much, SHM DPSing falls in the same lane as DRU DPSing - not their main role on raids.

So yes, I'm convinced this change can and will lower the entrance requirement into the raid scene.

A guild looking for a druid will care first and foremost about the healing tome, and although the druid may want the evocation tome in the future, it is not an automatic prerequisite for high end raiding.

Same could be said about shamans.

 

[Gargate]

You can't balance around just raids or even as a main balance point. As it stands a beast lord does 5 cop the same as wizard, the new system a wizard will only need roughly 30% of the same cop exp to be effective. A beast lord will have to do roughly 95% of the current 5cop exp to get the same effectiveness. That's of course factoring in more then just raids , you know since most of the game isn't just raids.


Edit I hate typing on touch screens, these buttons are not made formen

 

[Gargate]

And like other posts shm/druids will have even more disadvantages at mid tier versus clerics, every good shm/druid I know are solid heals and decent dps.

 

[Nwaij]

You can't balance around just raids or even as a main balance point. As it stands a beast lord does 5 cop the same as wizard, the new system a wizard will only need roughly 30% of the same cop exp to be effective. A beast lord will have to do roughly 95% of the current 5cop exp to get the same effectiveness. That's of course factoring in more then just raids , you know since most of the game isn't just raids.


Edit I hate typing on touch screens, these buttons are not made formen

The main point you are missing here that the ONLY scenario CoP is really needed for is raids, and even there they aren't really needed before ~t10. So I think balance around raids (and just raids) is exactly what needs to be done when it comes to CoP. Heck, I'd even suggest to make it so that they only take effect in raid zones (and maybe 6man zones, since these follow raid rules for the most as well...) if that was possible.

 

[Dinadass]

Heck, I'd even suggest to make it so that they only take effect in raid zones (and maybe 6man zones, since these follow raid rules for the most as well...) if that was possible.

That is a horrible idea given that exp is too slow already. Then again the revised new area bonus system was supposed to be an exp buff and ended up being more of a nerf so what do I know.

 

[Moraelintz]

The main point you are missing here that the ONLY scenario CoP is really needed for is raids, and even there they aren't really needed before ~t10. So I think balance around raids (and just raids) is exactly what needs to be done when it comes to CoP. Heck, I'd even suggest to make it so that they only take effect in raid zones (and maybe 6man zones, since these follow raid rules for the most as well...) if that was possible.

The problem is that isn't the reason cop are needed. We in leadership of guilds use that as a measuring stick of dedication and how much one will work outside of raids. That way we don't waste 3-6 months gearing and teaching someone for them to just quit or go elsewhere. By removing this will just put a bigger emphasis on charms or time count. We will go from saying hey if you are on cop 4 an working and have 106k charm that isn't bad we can try and fit you in, to saying well with this change we will now want 20 tomes and eternal or it just isn't worth it for us we can just box class x, or have one of the people waiting to get in play it for us. Or have one of our guys that play a class we have a bunch of refill since its faster to catch them up now.

 

[Nwaij]

The problem is that isn't the reason cop are needed. We in leadership of guilds use that as a measuring stick of dedication and how much one will work outside of raids. That way we don't waste 3-6 months gearing and teaching someone for them to just quit or go elsewhere. By removing this will just put a bigger emphasis on charms or time count. We will go from saying hey if you are on cop 4 an working and have 106k charm that isn't bad we can try and fit you in, to saying well with this change we will now want 20 tomes and eternal or it just isn't worth it for us we can just box class x, or have one of the people waiting to get in play it for us. Or have one of our guys that play a class we have a bunch of refill since its faster to catch them up now.

That is a point I can't argue against, since I did this myself. The question is if this argument outweights the arguments for CoP to go away/change, and looking at the first post, the answer seems to be no.

So if you have any idea how to take out the boredom and iron curtain aspect of CoP, while retaining the showing dedication aspect, I'm sure we all would like to hear it!

 

[Aphex26]

The whole idea of removing/changing CoP is that new players are considered "earlier" to get into raiding guilds/higher tier exp right?

Lets take a look at some exp places:

Kaesora
Doesnt need a super group to get some decent exp going. COP is not needed at all, even a 4k druid can heal without too much trouble here. I assume that the newly 65 drood has about 4k just for an example. If you are CoP'ed, it surely adds to the comfort level to taking down the mobs faster/heal better/tank better, whatever. However CoP is not a prequisite.

Blood Quary
Now here you need a descent tank, healer and some dps to break through the higher hp of lets say the elites wing.
4k Mana druid? Nope, no chance.
4k Mana druid with CoP? Nah, i pass

While Cop increases your character by a nice 20% in total, its not where the actual "wall is"

The wall is the gear.
How to get gear at freshly 65? Either you farm money and buy stuff from vendors, farm cmal for class armor, do treasure hunts or raid.

Mixing Cmal, with some treasure hunting and some stuff he bought, he can easly crack 5k mana.
With 5k mana, i used to heal T6/T7 groups with my cleric. Not too much of a problem.
Did i had CoP? Nope
AA's? About 200.

What i want to point out is: CoP are not the root of the problem or the imaginary wall that Woldo sets up here that prevents new players to get into content.
There are 2 solutions in my perspective: Get new players to get stuff done and progress (prolly the hardest part). Or use /ooc finding people to do cmal (i do not know any higher tier player who doesnt wanna do cmal, cause the exp there is just awesome), do treasure maps and join some pugs.

I do not see why the removing or altering of the current CoP will change anything at all. 20% more power with a 4k drood wont make me invite him into a blooded quarry group or whatsoever.

There is a curve of getting AA's, gear and preparing to raid. Once you have some solid mana, 200 AA's i dont see why you shouldnt be able to actually participate in a t5-t7 raid.

 

[Moraelintz]

That is a point I can't argue against, since I did this myself. The question is if this argument outweights the arguments for CoP to go away/change, and looking at the first post, the answer seems to be no.

So if you have any idea how to take out the boredom and iron curtain aspect of CoP, while retaining the showing dedication aspect, I'm sure we all would like to hear it!

There has been similar suggestions throughout this thread, but by either globally increasing exp rates or decreasing the exp cost of the tomes will go much further. If you are trying to get more new blood then a global exp bump should be in order bc that will speed 0-65, 0-500aas, and 0-20+ books.

 

[enasc]

I suppose that I don't understand why the CoP being slow, long, and a bit tedious is a bad thing.

If those three things cause you to quit, then you are going to quit this game. Whether you quit because of codex, charm farming, questing, or continuously backgearing newbs like myself, does it really matter? Most of the people I've seen quit do it when their progress goes from a super-accelerated catch up phase to on-tier grind fest. That referring to gear and xp-wise progression.

Maybe I'm just a glutton for punishment, and a bad example of what a typical casual SoD player would do, but I really enjoyed the CoP. Being able to significantly improve my toon while being unguided, outside of a raid setting, kept me playing this game. Without it I would have probably quit when I felt that I was done with AA. Yes, it took me a while, but finishing it felt like a real accomplishment.