Codex of Power Revamp

Well as a higher end raider i know that lookin at someone's fomelo , and seeing all 5 codex's done means that they actually play this game outside of raids. It gives me a great idea of how often this person plays. Whats next complaining about class tome exp? I personally don't want people for just raiding, this game isn't all about just logging in to raid. Everquest <~~~~make sure you read the first word in that before logging into this game.
 
We are leaning toward the 3 codex change. If anyone has anything to say, now is your final chance!
 
why not just reduce the exp required for current CoP without creating an imbalance of EXP required to perform at the same level as another class? seems like a super easy fix without creating any issues other than people who already did them getting mad.
 
Why not wait on 3.0 instead of doing codex change? Wasn't 3.0 going to have a higher AA threshold to mess around with so reimbursing would be more fun at that time?
 
So question on reimburse exp (assuming the 3 codex change).

Say I have CoP 5 all done. The 3 new Codex of Melee/Healing/Spell Dmg come in. With the reimbursement, will I beable to just rebuy all 3 and keep the 20% to everything that I currently have? Or will I have to only choose one to max out to 20%?
 
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Why would you mess with this at all? It benefits some classes more than others, but at the end of the day pretty solid for each class. You will make some classes 'require' all 3 codex and some only need 1. That seams more like an imbalace in req's than balancing.
 
Bad idea for the reasons already listed. To recap:

-unfair/creates class imbalance
-wasted effort when this can be better fixed in 3.0
-high probability of whatever reimbursement plan displeasing people
-easily the worst idea in the OP/entire thread

Doing away with CoP and putting the 20% into specializations was an ok idea. Increasing xp gains across the board (possibly based on server funds?) was a better idea as it helps with leveling all by yourself which is all too often the case. Even the forcing people to raid for the CoP bonus through hard flags was better than punishing multifaceted classes.
 
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After having a great disscussion in ooc today i would like to point out the one huge issue.
i have 40 tomes done there are a few left i can buy. exp pot are worthless unless we are going to be able to buy opus. another irk for me is the fact you trivialize all of my accomplishment finishing such a great task. Bottom line is for a handful of people mid way threw there tomes. this becomes a horrible idea you get nothing from the kickback. lost time exp and irritated players who quit. Is there not another way to help upcoming people with out ruining current format
 
Waldoff said:
Proposal 1:

CoPower goes away. Instead, we have three tomes: (The names do not matter yet.)

Codex of Battle: 20% Melee, Pet Melee and Ranged Damage. Same AA count as 1.6 old CoPowers.

Codex of Healing: 20% Healing increase. Same AA count as 1.6 old CoPowers.

Codex of Evocation: 20% to all damage spells and songs. Same AA count as 1.6 old CoPowers.

When the change goes live, we delete all CoPower and reimburse everyone who has done a CoPower their experience that has gone into it (most likely via a bunch of right click tokens). It is then up to the player to use their previously earned experience on all three new tomes, or to pick one or two new tomes and have some experience left over.

Most classes will only need one or two of these tomes. Even better, new players will be able to tackle the tome of most potency to their class first, instead of having to slog through all 5 old tomes to get their needed 20%. A guild looking for a druid will care first and foremost about the healing tome, and although the druid may want the evocation tome in the future, it is not an automatic prerequisite for high end raiding.
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Just wanted to voice support, since I am looking forward to the change. I think for catching new players up to older players it will be a great benefit. It will allow better prioritizing your exp (like you can already do with the various tomes). This seems like it brings the CoP more in line with the other sets of tomes.

For existing players with the CoP5 already done (or nearly there), it lets them put some of the exp toward something else that is more useful. I liked that this proposal kept the CoP an EXP thing rather than turning into yet-another-raid-thing or yet-another-quest-thing.

However, like mentioned in previous posts, the only potentially huge issue I can see is not having anything to put this refunded experience into. Not sure what to do about it at this point in time though.

Edit: For the class imbalance comments, I think the current implementation is already imbalanced. As a pure melee, you don't really care about the 20% healing and as a pure caster you really don't care about the 20% melee (except maybe priests). However, with changing them so that all 3 are no more experience than all five CoPs, as Jeanval said, its more of a repackaging into a more flexable package and refund (if you have them all done) than a monumental change. Because you can eventually get your full 20% using all 3 tomes just like doing all 5 CoPs.
 
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Not having anything to put this refund EXP into shouldn't be a problem. Worst case scenario you just pour it into all three new tomes and you're exactly where you are now. If you have no other new fancy tomes to work on then just use all three new tomes. If you absolutely positively don't need one of them, save the exp clickies till new tomes eventually come out. I don't see the problem here at all.
 
Where I do see a problem coming up is that certain classes are more or less pressed to finish all 3 tomes for full efficiency (hybrids, pet casters come to mind) while others will be set with 1 (and an optional second) which would probably lead to a certain kind of "imbalance" for the higher game.

Right know I can't think of a workaround for this w/o breaking the entire system (again).
 
I don't follow what I think I'm reading here. I agree with Banj. If you are for example a warrior or rogue without many ways to heal yourself, save the experience you earned, and throw it in other tomes. If you lack tomes, save them for 3.0 where you will more than likely end up with a far more massive xp refund, and blow it all on what we have heard will be a large number of AAs and entirely new ways to utilize xp.

If you need to do all three forms of codices, enjoy the awesome benefits you get! This is an effort to help lower the massive xp amount young players require to catch up. It is not a fix for every class, but for most classes which have a primary role, this is a very positive change that hurts nobody in the LONG RUN.
 
Moraelintz said:
You will make some classes 'require' all 3 codex and some only need 1. That seams more like an imbalace in req's than balancing.
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My thoughts exactly when reading the proposed change.

As said by others earlier in the thread, completing the CoP is not required for raiding because of the bonuses they give, but because it demonstrates the dedication to completing something that takes both time and effort. If this hurdle is removed, I expect another to simply take its place.
 
I can see that this idea is bringing in its fair share of discontent, but don't let's forget that Waldoff posed the figure of each of these new codices requiring 1.6 times the exp of a single Codex of Power. Let's look at the numbers:

Current Codex of Power System
Each of the five CoP requires 110 AAs.
5 codices x 110 AAs of exp = 550 AAs total to complete all five

Proposed Three-Codex System
Each of the three codices requires 160% of the exp currently required to fill a single CoP.
3 codices x (1.6 x 110 AAs) = 528 AAs total to complete all three

This is a net reduction in the exp wall for all classes, even those that "need" to do all three of the new codices.

Furthermore, the three-codex system would allow a class like Beastlord, for instance, to prioritize his options in order to receive the most important bonus first (such as Codex of Battle: 20% Melee, Pet Melee and Ranged Damage). This flat 20% bonus for melee and pet damage, which used to be achievable only after finishing a whopping 550 AAs worth of CoP exp, could be earned by the Beastlord after plowing through the fractional amount of 176 AAs. Should he wish it, he could then go on to pursue the Codex of Healing next, and after another 176 AAs (352 AAs total), he would have earned a 20% bonus to all his healing output, a bonus that, again, would only have been achievable after having plowed through 550 AAs worth of Codex of Power exp.

As long as the three new codices are coded to give partial bonuses while the player is working through them in order to stave off boredom and encourage their completion, I see this as a positive change.
 
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Yes but you are looking at an overall point of view.

Take rogue monk warrior instead of needing 550aas they now need 176 to get the same benefits.

Wizard chanter are in same boat at or 176 to maximize effectiveness and go to other books first.

Now pet classes, priests, an hybrids need all 550 aas to maximize effectiveness.

This is where the class imbalance lies.

The way balancing an classes are now these are still the greatest benefit per exp thank any other books. If that change gets put in the melee book becomes superiorly overpowered. With the way the system currently is with those books it is more of a linear progression through the books. Yes it is more beneficial for some classes than others in the current system but the time vs reward vs class balance is there. Even for pure melees the cop are the best investment in exp.

If anything really needs done for the system is not cop being modified but overall exo gain be modified and expedited. If you give a 10-20% global exp boost will help new players catch up much faster than a codec revamp. It will also decrease the 0-500aa time and get people working on books sooner.
 
Grinkles said:
I can see that this idea is bringing in its fair share of discontent, but don't let's forget that Waldoff posed the figure of each of these new codices requiring 1.6 times the exp of a single Codex of Power. Let's look at the numbers:

Current Codex of Power System
Each of the five CoP requires 110 AAs.
5 codices x 110 AAs of exp = 550 AAs total to complete all five

Proposed Three-Codex System
Each of the three codices requires 160% of the exp currently required to fill a single CoP.
3 codices x (1.6 x 110 AAs) = 528 AAs total to complete all three

This is a net reduction in the exp wall for all classes, even those that "need" to do all three of the new codices.

Furthermore, the three-codex system would allow a class like Beastlord, for instance, to prioritize his options in order to receive the most important bonus first (such as Codex of Battle: 20% Melee, Pet Melee and Ranged Damage). This flat 20% bonus for melee and pet damage, which used to be achievable only after finishing a whopping 550 AAs worth of CoP exp, could be earned by the Beastlord after plowing through the fractional amount of 176 AAs. Should he wish it, he could then go on to pursue the Codex of Healing next, and after another 176 AAs (352 AAs total), he would have earned a 20% bonus to all his healing output, a bonus that, again, would only have been achievable after having plowed through 550 AAs worth of Codex of Power exp.

As long as the three new codices are coded to give partial bonuses while the player is working through them in order to stave off boredom and encourage their completion, I see this as a positive change.
Click to expand...

So, assuming one has all the CoPs finished, when this change goes in they need to find a place for only 22 AAs worth of exp (assuming they desire to complete all 3 of the new tomes to get exactly what they had under the 5 CoPs).
 
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