Codex of Power Revamp

my biggest issue is this, I don't have enough tomes banked that need exp in them when we get all the CoP exp back.

sure I could buy tomes but the only ones left are the $$$$ tomes and when my goal is to finish off the supreme (about 100k left) I'm not gonna knock myself back 20-75k in tomes just to put the exp some where and with Gargates AA already at 549 at least half of the CoP exp will go unused.
 
my biggest issue is this, I don't have enough tomes banked that need exp in them when we get all the CoP exp back.

sure I could buy tomes but the only ones left are the $$$$ tomes and when my goal is to finish off the supreme (about 100k left) I'm not gonna knock myself back 20-75k in tomes just to put the exp some where and with Gargates AA already at 549 at least half of the CoP exp will go unused.

I think this will be a big issue for a lot of people.
 
my biggest issue is this, I don't have enough tomes banked that need exp in them when we get all the CoP exp back.

sure I could buy tomes but the only ones left are the $$$$ tomes and when my goal is to finish off the supreme (about 100k left) I'm not gonna knock myself back 20-75k in tomes just to put the exp some where and with Gargates AA already at 549 at least half of the CoP exp will go unused.

Let me put it this way...

At one point you thought that spending hours of your life was worth getting the 20% benefit you gain from all five of the Codex of Power.

They are taking nothing from you. You still have your 20% power increase.

They really are just making it more easy for new people to get into the, raiding, game AND they are willing to give us free exp to spend on a later date in anything we want.

It was once 25% power increase and they RIPPED IT AWAY without giving anyone anything. Maybe we should just be happy they are willing to give us something for our time. Other then the fun-with-bro-time we have already enjoyed!
 
Let me put it this way...

At one point you thought that spending hours of your life was worth getting the 20% benefit you gain from all five of the Codex of Power.

They are taking nothing from you. You still have your 20% power increase.

They really are just making it more easy for new people to get into the, raiding, game AND they are willing to give us free exp to spend on a later date in anything we want.

It was once 25% power increase and they RIPPED IT AWAY without giving anyone anything. Maybe we should just be happy they are willing to give us something for our time. Other then the fun-with-bro-time we have already enjoyed!

Who says said anything about not being able to raid without codexes being done? I know for a fact that up through The Eternal Well can be raided without any codexes or tomes. Codexes and tomes did not even exist when we were ripping this stuff up in <Ruin>. If people think that codexes are necessary to raid, then they are quite simply wrong. Maybe they are necessary for later raid tiers, but even that is debatable (there's no doubt they help, but that's a far cry from "necessary"). Personally, I think codexes are fine, it's people's over-emphasis on their importance that should change, heh.
 
Not I. Lets not put words into other peoples posts that are simply not there.
Don't think he was implying that you said it, but it's pretty much the reason this thread was created (see first post: )

Codex of Power (...) has become a near-necessity for a new player to get him or herself into a raid guild. Ironically, perception has it that even guilds that are in tiers that were released before CoPower even existed, require at least some time spent into CoPowers.

Yeah, I still haven't heard of any guilds requiring CoP to raid anything. Not sure what guild is or was requiring completed CoP to raid ToT-like content (or earlier), but looks like that mythical guild is going to be partially responsible for having some pretty great experience sinks removed from the game. A shame, in my opinion.
 
Who says said anything about not being able to raid without codexes being done? I know for a fact that up through The Eternal Well can be raided without any codexes or tomes. Codexes and tomes did not even exist when we were ripping this stuff up in <Ruin>. If people think that codexes are necessary to raid, then they are quite simply wrong. Maybe they are necessary for later raid tiers, but even that is debatable (there's no doubt they help, but that's a far cry from "necessary"). Personally, I think codexes are fine, it's people's over-emphasis on their importance that should change, heh.

the problem is that the quality of player has gone down and thats why people "NEED" to have codex of power done.
 
Pretty much the entire staff feels that the Codex of Power has been a bit of a failed experiment. What was once meant as something for people to slowly accomplish (and that was expected only a few people would do) has become a near-necessity for a new player to get him or herself into a raid guild.

Not to be rude, but to be honest.
The reason this happened is because the vast majority of people who were not hardcore (Play alot) got chased off. CoP's fit perfectly in a game where the only people playing or who will continue to play, play ALOT. I have never seen anyone quit because of the tomes of power, but I have seen people quit because they cant play the game the only way it can be played to progress your character. If the goal is to get new players or not chase people off, you need to cater to more than just one specific type of player. I do not see how getting rid of the CoP's will do anything to help the server, but potentially waste many peoples time because they have nothing to put the xp into.

Yale
<Exodus>
 
Not to be rude, but to be honest.
The reason this happened is because the vast majority of people who were not hardcore (Play alot) got chased off. CoP's fit perfectly in a game where the only people playing or who will continue to play, play ALOT. I have never seen anyone quit because of the tomes of power, but I have seen people quit because they cant play the game the only way it can be played to progress your character. If the goal is to get new players or not chase people off, you need to cater to more than just one specific type of player. I do not see how getting rid of the CoP's will do anything to help the server, but potentially waste many peoples time because they have nothing to put the xp into.

Yale
<Exodus>

The great thing about this game is that it can be played any way you want to play it. You do not have to exp or raid to have fun. If that is what you want to do then do it. I know plenty of people that the greatest draw to the game is the social aspect and tradeskilling. They invesnt the amount of time they want and do what they want and have plenty of fun.
 
To change direction from the last couple of posts:

I'm wondering why we are talking about giving XP back at all once CoP goes away? The PP refund I 100% understand, and high level ideas for solutions have been put forth that sound like they may allow a refund to occur in an automated way.

What the staff has stated: CoP is going away, and the bonus it use to give is going to be distributed across completion of other tomes. Basically, this allows CoP to go away without a full retooling of the raid game. It makes a lot of sense to make the change this way. Characters who have already completed any portion of CoP will keep bonuses they have already earned.

The keeping of the current bonus is, I assume, why the idea of an XP refund came into play. What was discussed is that players can reallocate this 'banked' XP to new tomes in order to keep their previous CoP bonus. Depending on the way the CoP bonus is distributed across tomes, this could cause hardship for players to get back to their current power level.

Why not handle all the XP 'refund' on the back end in an automated way?
1. Have a database field that indicates the current 'CoP' bonus % per character with a max of 100%. This field will drive all eq 'CoP' calculations and/or trigger other flags as needed.
2. On cut-over to the new system, populate this field with each Character's current bonus %.
3. Put CoP bonus across the other tomes as per the current plan.
4. Create an XP ratio between new tomes/cop bonus % in order to increment the CoP bonus % field while players are working on new tomes. Once a character reaches the 100% max bonus they stop earning toward a 'CoP' bonus % but can obviously keep XPing tomes.

Outcome:
-This would allow new players to start earning CoP bonus from 0% when starting tomes. (The whole point of the change.)
-It would give current players who are working/completed CoP their bonus right away since they already worked it. This would also allow them to start new tomes 1 at a time instead of potentially needing tons of tomes in bulk to dump XP refunds into... Cash issues, tome availability issues, etc.
-Additionally, this does NOT refund 600AA worth of XP that can be put into other tomes/AAs/XP content down the line. Obviously, we want people to keep playing the game, not have a fuck-ton of refund XP they can insta-use on any new expansion.

I think the downside of my way of doing things is that it kind of hits dudes on switch over who have CoP completed and enough tomes to say the bonus is maxed in the new system. They may have the perception that they are losing XP. I don't really think this is a good way of looking at things, but to each their own. Maybe give this people something special like an "I did CoP when it was hard, and all I got was this stupid T-Shirt" title, or something. I don't know. I do know that not everyone is going to be happy no matter how things are changed, and I clearly don't think almost 600 AA worth of banked XP refund is the right way to do it.


EDIT - I also think my suggestions can be implemented in such a way that allows for new tomes to be implemented in the future without causing the system to collapse.
 
my biggest issue is this, I don't have enough tomes banked that need exp in them when we get all the CoP exp back.

sure I could buy tomes but the only ones left are the $$$$ tomes and when my goal is to finish off the supreme (about 100k left) I'm not gonna knock myself back 20-75k in tomes just to put the exp some where and with Gargates AA already at 549 at least half of the CoP exp will go unused.

Just another reason to give the xp back as tradeable potions. not only would it be a grand experiment but low end players would, in general, surge in power and endgame players would have a temporary source of charm revenue. maybe people would roll alts or just give new players xp for not sucking... anything is possible.
 
I guess "the powers that be" need to make more clear their intentions when it comes to CoP removal. My understanding of things isn't that you get xp potions (or whatever) to xp new tomes to get your bonus back, but that a set amount of tome xp earned will equal a CoP. Implied is that your already completed tomes will be applied for this new system. So, if you have completed level 1 and 2 of your three class tomes (approx 480aa's worth, compared to 550aa's worth for 5 CoP), you would have about 17.5% CoP bonus.
I can't see it requiring you to do new tomes to get your bonus, as many long time active players just won't have the tomes to do, even "junk" tomes. The new system would require another 7 class tomes worth of new tome, per class, to come out at the same time, if that is the case. Considering how long some classes have waited for a non-placeholder tome (or bst, to even get that), that seems unlikely.
 
it was already said as you complete tomes you get the bonus, for those of us already finished with enough tomes beyond CoP to earn the bonus we will already get it, for those with only the CoP finished or parts of it that exp will be able to be put into other tomes there by finishing the CoP bonus or part of it.

the purpose for the refund in exp is players put the time in to get the exp just for CoP, now you get CoP bonus while getting the exp towards completing other tome's doubling exp gain in a way.

If you only gave them the bonus you pretty much rob them of many hours worth of exping.

CoP is what equal to 110AA, most tomes are 50-80 AA. A new player finishs off the 550AA worth and instead of just CoP bonus also gets the other 12 or so tomes bonus.
 
with this refund in CoP exp can you guys also implement the other class tomes that have place holders? that would give me a few other places to put exp and I'm sure it would help a lot of folks.
 
It is - they got a little sidetracked and I think the specifics are still being worked out. To the best of my knowledge, it's still the plan though. Wold or slaar can step on me if I'm wrong about that.
 
I just started my alt on his CoP4. He's only 6 % done with it. Should I switch him to some other tomes or keep pumping that exp into the CoP. I don't particularly want to lose any exp.
 
I just started my alt on his CoP4. He's only 6 % done with it. Should I switch him to some other tomes or keep pumping that exp into the CoP. I don't particularly want to lose any exp.
They have discussed ways of making sure people get reimbursed for the xp pumped into CoP.
 
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