Charms

[Bud]

*Unless said player farms areas for plat instead of drops.

Unless definitive new content has been added, there's not a zone in the game you can farm for pure plat more efficiently than drops.

Edit: I'm a bit thrashed. If the previous sentence didn't make sense, fuck you.

 

[Kazimir]

It STILL took longer to farm money for a charm when they were droppable because players were forced to sell items to other players in lieu of getting 10p from the vendor. Nowdays, people can just farm the fuck out of items and sell them immediately for 600+ plat to vendors. This method is way faster and more efficient than selling items to other players.

Actually, the liquid plat drops have gone down dramatically over to course of the last 4 years which is the only reason items are more worth farming now. But the old rates of raw plat you could bring in were far higher. And way back gem prices used to be far higher as well.

 

[darksabbath]

Because this is the Internet

/thread


As a guy who has cheap charms on his toons, I can say this. If I farmed enough cash to buy a 1.2mil charm, I would not want to do it again. I'd swap around if able. However, I agree that the swapping should not be allowed in general. The intention of the charms was to be a plat sink, if you could swap, it removes the plat sink. As you would only sink it once. You most likely keep getting cash while exp'ing, and that cash would just sit.
Also, how would you track the swapping? I, like most, have my toons on all separate accounts, so I can two-box at my leisure. I have several different e-mails I used, also.
Now, take into account taking over a friends account who quit. Instead of farming cash for his, you just want to swap a charm to his. Would that be allowed in your new system? How could/would that be tracked? The whole idea would just cause head-aches all around. And it would only take one dishonest person to "screw the pooch" on it.

And farming cash is easier now, I am not certain why you don't see that. More exp'd players, with more aa's, and the addition of tomes, kill stuff much quicker. And items vendor for more, that means more cash in the economy. Some people try to auction stuff to others, that is true, but I know that many, including my friends and I, would rather just vendor the stuff at the end of the day, and split the cash. Much easier than waiting on 3pp more from an auctioned item. Part of that is laziness on a part, and part annoyance at the player base that bids 3pp over a vendor price of 500, and thinks it is all good to let me wait 1.5days to get the cash from you, too.

To summarize: higher vendor price + greater toon power = more cash being farmed for similar (or less) effort.
Trading charms = head-aches + heart-aches

 

[stope21]

Budrick, items sold for more to players back in the day. People who were able to farm the same items we farm today were able to sell them on the market for good prices.. many times for much more than what they can be even close to vendored for. The vendored prices went in because the market became over saturated and the prices declined.

It is easier now because of what I said in my previous post, you are so unbelievably wrong its staggering.

 

[Mythryn]

It is easier now because of what I said in my previous post, you are so unbelievably wrong its staggering.

What?

It is so much easier to make money now than what it ever used to be. Just look at how long it took Felyn to farm his 1.2s, and how long it took Linken/Zhak to, and they had the benefit of selling their (and other) characters charms, to achieve it. Honch and Harney were some of the most dedicated, hard core players out there, just as Felyn is now.

Also, you can go back even further to when it took entire guilds -months- to farm for a tanks charm, and that now can be done by a single person. Back when you didn't have a viable tradeskill economy, or HHK, or relics dropping of 6 man content. But please stope, keep coming in here and telling everyone they're wrong without backing it up, and ignore any valid points people bring to the table. It really helps your worthless crusade to end the injustice of you not being able to swap charms to your twinks.

Good luck with that.

 

[robopirateninja]

Budrick, items sold for more to players back in the day. People who were able to farm the same items we farm today were able to sell them on the market for good prices.. many times for much more than what they can be even close to vendored for. The vendored prices went in because the market became over saturated and the prices declined.

It is easier now because of what I said in my previous post, you are so unbelievably wrong its staggering.

Back in the day, even when those items sold for more, plat entered the server's economy at a much lower rate. To get plat for items, someone else had to spend their time farming raw plat to pay you with. Now the only limit on how quickly you can farm items for cash is spawn timers, not other player's farming schedules/need for items. This makes it substantially easier and faster to farm the platinum for a charm.

 

[Bud]

Budrick, items sold for more to players back in the day. People who were able to farm the same items we farm today were able to sell them on the market for good prices.. many times for much more than what they can be even close to vendored for. The vendored prices went in because the market became over saturated and the prices declined.

It is easier now because of what I said in my previous post, you are so unbelievably wrong its staggering.

You cannot honestly be this stupid.

People still had to farm the money to buy items. Guess what. Just guess. That's right, it took longer for people to farm the money needed to buy said items because farming was so much slower compared to present day.

You haven't been playing here very long if you think the amount of money entering the economy ever eclipsed its current rate. Do you not understand that vendor prices introduce a fuck truck full of money into the economy?

 

[stope21]

People still had to farm the money to buy items.

People still had to farm money to buy items? You know, I'm glad you pointed that out to me.

That's right, it took longer for people to farm the money needed to buy said items because farming was so much slower compared to present day.

So you're saying: It took longer for people to farm money to buy items because farming was slower. Thank you for backing up your argument with the same argument, that aids this discussion tremendously.

You have brought nothing new to the discussion, other then restating the same exact shit over and over again. Bring up something new, with proper supporting reasoning or shut the fuck up. Thanks.

 

[stope21]

Back in the day, even when those items sold for more, plat entered the server's economy at a much lower rate. To get plat for items, someone else had to spend their time farming raw plat to pay you with. Now the only limit on how quickly you can farm items for cash is spawn timers, not other player's farming schedules/need for items. This makes it substantially easier and faster to farm the platinum for a charm.

I agree completely with you tyrone. However, this was a problem with game design that has since been changed.

See the problem here, as I addressed earlier in other more complex terms, was the following:
With a limited amount of money entering the market, and a less limited amount of items entering the market. Item prices were driven down. This is because when you start with 2 items on the market and 10k to buy these items from players, the average selling price will be 5k. However, when you now have 5 items on the market, and the same limited 10k to buy these items, the price dips down. The devs (as well as many of the players) didn't think it was optimal for newer players to be able to buy these nicer items for so cheaply. So, changes were implemented.

Essentially, price floors were set through the utility of vendor prices.
This ensured:
a) that players farming items, which in many cases are quite hard to get, are going to get at minimum a reasonable amount of money for their efforts
b) that up and coming players have to pay at least a certain amount of money for a certain quality/rarity of items

Disclaimer: This is a very basic way to explain this, there is far more factors contributing to this. Feel free to bring up Bind on Equip. I'd be glad to discuss this with anyone curious as to the effects of the system.

 

[Bud]

People still had to farm money to buy items? You know, I'm glad you pointed that out to me.

So you're saying: It took longer for people to farm money to buy items because farming was slower. Thank you for backing up your argument with the same argument, that aids this discussion tremendously.

You have brought nothing new to the discussion, other then restating the same exact shit over and over again. Bring up something new, with proper supporting reasoning or shut the fuck up. Thanks.

Um, what?

Here, I'll state a fact; an absolute fact: it's far easier to farm money now than it ever was before. This cheapens the effect of charms overall.

 

[stope21]

What?

It is so much easier to make money now than what it ever used to be. Just look at how long it took Felyn to farm his 1.2s, and how long it took Linken/Zhak to, and they had the benefit of selling their (and other) characters charms, to achieve it. Honch and Harney were some of the most dedicated, hard core players out there, just as Felyn is now.

Also, you can go back even further to when it took entire guilds -months- to farm for a tanks charm, and that now can be done by a single person. Back when you didn't have a viable tradeskill economy, or HHK, or relics dropping of 6 man content. But please stope, keep coming in here and telling everyone they're wrong without backing it up, and ignore any valid points people bring to the table. It really helps your worthless crusade to end the injustice of you not being able to swap charms to your twinks.

Good luck with that.

Are you going to totally disregard the point I brought up that characters are across the board far more powerful than they used to be? That characters can much more easily do what they couldn't before? That players know far more about the game than they did back then? Then you're going to tell me I am not supporting my "claims" with evidence?

Please, Jose, deny the fact that the average high end character of today is so significantly more powerful than what it was "back then." Deny the fact that significantly more powerful characters farm at a significantly higher rate. Deny the fact that significantly better knowledge of drops, farm spots, etc contributes directly to a players ability to make money. When you can do this, you can call my arguments unsubstantiated.

You think that I just waltzed in and grabbed my 1.2 with no effort? Ask any high end players the difficulty it took for them to farm their (first) 1.2. Believe me, this wasn't as simple a matter as you are making it out to be.

You do not have a 1.2. Budrick, you do not have a 1.2.

Yet ya'll say OMG IT SO EASY TO GET MONEY.

If it is so easy: Why are your charms so fucking horrible?
If it is so easy: How come every 1.2 is owned by hardcore, dedicated, good players?

The end.

 

[stope21]

Um, what?

Here, I'll state a fact; an absolute fact: it's far easier to farm money now than it ever was before.

Again, you are restating the same thing you have now said 3 times.

You can't just say something is a fact and expect people to agree with you.

 

[Bud]

Are you going to totally disregard the point I brought up that characters are across the board far more powerful than they used to be? That characters can much more easily do what they couldn't before? That players know far more about the game than they did back then? Then you're going to tell me I am not supporting my "claims" with evidence.

Please, Jose, deny the fact that the average high end character of today is so significantly more powerful than what it was "back then." Deny the fact that significantly more powerful characters farm at a significantly higher rate. Deny the fact that significantly better knowledge of drops, farm spots, etc contributes directly to a players ability to make money. When you can do this, you can call my arguments unsubstantiated.

You think that I just waltzed in and grabbed my 1.2 with no effort? Ask any high end players the difficulty it took for them to farm their (first) 1.2. Believe me, this wasn't as simple a matter as you are making it out to be.

No. Just no.

There's lower tier people who are farming higher end charms. Not because their characters are better, but because it's easier to farm. Do you realize the only advantage newer players have is content? Which is a huge advantage, but it's still not as definitive as the vendor prices.

It's not hardware that makes farming easier.

You do not have a 1.2. Budrick, you do not have a 1.2.

Yet ya'll say OMG IT SO EASY TO GET MONEY.

If it is so easy.

Why are your charms so fucking horrible?

The end.

1.) I got banned.
2.) I bought four different people their 200k charms.

/discussion.

Again, you are restating the same thing you have now said 3 times.

You can't just say something is a fact and expect people to agree with you.

I really don't care if you agree with me or not. It still does not change my statement's status as a fact.

 

[stope21]

There's lower tier people who are farming higher end charms.

Names of low tier people with 1.2's or 500's?

Do you realize the only advantage newer players have is content? Which is a huge advantage, but it's still not as definitive as the vendor prices.

So you agree, more content = huge advantage. I agree with you for the first time. Better gear is a big advantage.

However, So are tomes. So is diety spec. So is better knowledge of zones.

It's not hardware that makes farming easier.

I thought you just said more content (assuming you mean better gear by this) is a huge advantage. No?

I bought four different people their 200k charms.

Good sir, do be so kind as to tell me the names of these individuals so that I may verify the legitimacy of this.

 

[Bud]

Names of low tier people with 1.2's or 500's?

Like I remember that...

Even still, you cannot conflict its viability. There's several lower tier zones that can yield huge amounts of cash through item drops and tradeskill materials.

So you agree, more content = huge advantage. I agree with you for the first time. Better gear is a big advantage.

However, So are tomes. So is diety spec. So is better knowledge of zones.

I thought you just said more content (assuming you mean better gear by this) is a huge advantage. No?

In this metaphor, gear is the hardware; content would be the software.

There's more content to farm cash from now. Pretty much the same gear is available, with the exception of maybe some ToT and Sanctum.

Good sir, do be so kind as to tell me the names of these individuals so that I may verify the legitimacy of this.

Why would I bring them into this? They were gifts. It'd be pretty cheap to kiss and tell. You seem to be under the delusion that I need or feel compelled to prove anything to you.

 

[stope21]

In a discussion, you actually do have to back up what you say. Otherwise what you say is empty, I am not going to repeat this again as I have driven this point into the ground.

I am done discussing with you.

 

[Manguadi]

Way to take the high road, stope.

 

[Allielyn]

I'm a little confused by the conversation here. It looks like everybody involved agrees that it's easier to get a high level charm now than it was before, but you're all arguing heatedly about why that is, as if it matters really?

Also,

The intention of the charms was to be a plat sink, if you could swap, it removes the plat sink. As you would only sink it once. You most likely keep getting cash while exp'ing, and that cash would just sit.

This is pretty much what I meant when I said

It wouldn't inflate the server by adding cash, but it wouldn't promote additional removal of plat from the system by encouraging you to [buy] another charm, so in a roundabout way it kind of would.

Also,

In any case, not going to happen - we would like charms to stay on the characters for whom they were purchased.

Stands

 

[Nwaij]

Ask any high end players the difficulty it took for them to farm their (first) 1.2. Believe me, this wasn't as simple a matter as you are making it out to be.

Actually it WAS simple. Timeconsuming, but simple.

 

[GuiardoTuneweaver]

And way back gem prices used to be far higher as well.

Gem prices were halved, but the drop rate was doubled at the same time. This was done to make high-end jewelcraft more achievable. It didn't affect the money coming in to the economy.