Charms

[Nodnal]

You don't get it...

Are you reading my posts?

Items now have a floor price because of the vendor value. They used to not have that. All Woldaff was saying is that the floor prices have made it less of an overall liquid platinum sink. That is all he was saying (or at least how I interpreted it).

Charms were put in place to take away liquid platinum from the economy. With an increase of items because of charm farming, vendor prices were raised to alleviate the item inflation. This created a floor price for the items and made the whole point of charms less worthwhile.

 

[stope21]

I get exactly what you are saying, but it is wrong.

A price floor, or rather the ability to vendor an item has NOTHING to do with how effective a charm is at taking money off the market.

1) If players can't sell their farmed items for a reasonable amount, they are going to focus on farming platinum. Money is still going to be brought on the market as the direct overall effect.

2) If the price flooring system is flawed, causing there to be an excessive amount of money put onto the market, that is a totally different topic. I personally don't think the basic principles (although highly misinterpreted by many) are flawed and that the system is great. Guiardo touched on how it possibly is flawed and possibly how to fix these (minor) flaws. I don't fully agree that his all his fixes are the best option, but I would say I agree with 2/3 of his statements. Either way, it isn't related to the effectiveness of a charm in taking off "x" amount of money.

 

[Mythryn]

It's not like charms are magically cheaper now. Their prices are the same they have always been. I don't see what is so complex about this.

So 2007, supreme charm buys for 1,200,000
Then in 2009, a very gloom day, where the factory line just isn't what it used to be, under the despot that goes by the name of "wiz", a supreme charm buys for... wait for it... wait for it... 1,200,000.

SOUND THE ALARM!

LOSS OFF EFFECTIVENESS!!!
LOSS OFF EFFECTIVENESS!!!
LOSS OFF EFFECTIVENESS!!!

Instead of taking off 1.2 million pp, we are taking off 1.2 million pp!!!!

Thread over thanks to stope's daunting logic.

 

[Nodnal]

I get exactly what you are saying, but it is wrong.

A price floor, or rather the ability to vendor an item has NOTHING to do with how effective a charm is at taking money off the market.

1) If players can't sell their farmed items for a reasonable amount, they are going to focus on farming platinum. Money is still going to be brought on the market as the direct overall effect.

2) If the price flooring system is flawed, causing there to be an excessive amount of money put onto the market, that is a totally different topic. I personally don't think the basic principles (although highly misinterpreted by many) are flawed and that the system is great. Guiardo touched on how it possibly is flawed and possibly how to fix these (minor) flaws. I don't fully agree that his all his fixes are the best option, but I would say I agree with 2/3 of his statements. Either way, it isn't related to the effectiveness of a charm in taking off "x" amount of money.

I am not saying that the floor prices are a reason to not make charms movable between characters, but if you honestly don't see how it makes charms less of a platinum sink, then I don't know how to explain it very well, or you just don't understand it at all.

 

[stope21]

There are more options than you listed, and that's the possibility that you are wrong.

New system:

Player A spends 1 hour farming.

He either farms 500pp or an item that sells to a vendor for 500pp.


Old system:

Player A spends 1 hour farming

He either farms 500pp or an item that he sells for 100pp.

He farms the 500pp.

Where does item price floor fuck up the effectiveness?

 

[Mythryn]

There are more options than you listed, and that's the possibility that you are wrong.

New system:

Player A spends 1 hour farming.

He either farms 500pp or an item that sells to a vendor for 500pp.


Old system:

Player A spends 1 hour farming

He either farms 500pp or an item that he sells for 100pp.

He farms the 500pp.

Where does item price floor fuck up the effectiveness?

Dear God I hope you're trying to troll everyone, because that is an example that would be given out by someone who doesn't know how the system works, or what they're talking about. Please be trolling Stope. Please.

 

[Waldoff]

Everyone is thinking of things nominally when that is not the way to do it. Charms are in fact cheaper simply because of the increased liquidity on the server. Even when a player farms for their charm any extranious non vendored/dropped platinum they get is sunk via that charm. Allowing charms to be traded creates a secondary market where supply will mitigate the platinum sunk.

Edit: on my blackberry and didn't see page three. This has been explained more simply above.

 

[Manguadi]

Nice product placement sir.

Btw as far as plats for the rl server goes whatever happened to hats and fanny packs and customizable headbands for sod? There are lots of artists that would do awesome stuff for fame.

 

[stope21]

Dear God I hope you're trying to troll everyone, because that is an example that would be given out by someone who doesn't know how the system works, or what they're talking about. Please be trolling Stope. Please.

You refuse to answer my request for you to elaborate on your simplistic statements of support, now you say I'm trolling... thank you for your contribution.

Please respond with something more thoughtful then, "I support this" or, "I do not follow your logic, are you trolling?" All my posts are well composed, use mostly proper spelling and grammar. It's the least you can do man.

Its pretty simple what I am saying and have said.. people are going to farm what is most economically beneficial to them. Plain and simple. Any act of farming brings money into the server, it doesn't matter if its an item that gets regurgitated and eventually sold to a merchant, or if its raw platinum. They're going to chase what brings in the most platinum to them personally. I agree items used to be less economically significant in terms of pure platinum, as they sold to lower teir people from higher teir people and were never vendored for a decent amount like they are now. However, that was a flaw in game design that has now been addressed. However, these items still held a general ammount of platinum they were supposed to be worth. This value, was then passed on from player to player, so no player really got stiffed losing the full value of the item (once they were done with an item they paid 1k, they sold it for 1k generally). The problem here is this eventually makes an over-saturated market, that drives prices down due to the over saturated environment. This is the flaw in the game, and likely what you are referring to when you feel I do not understand. My friend, If this is the case, its not that I do not understand, I ensure you I do. But it gets FAR more complex than just this.

Everyone is thinking of things nominally when that is not the way to do it. Charms are in fact cheaper simply because of the increased liquidity on the server. Even when a player farms for their charm any extranious non vendored/dropped platinum they get is sunk via that charm. Allowing charms to be traded creates a secondary market where supply will mitigate the platinum sunk.

How would there be a market for a charm when you can only use it between your own characters?

 

[stope21]

Most people who post on the forums have charms, and spend a considerable amount of time playing SoD. If other people are interested in chiming in, nobody is stopping them.

Being able to trade my charm to my other melees is only going to make me go from having the best alts to having the best alts.. while also allowing people who change mains a great benefit.

I feel this is a good position between old style charms and new style charms.

Back in the day, anyone could trade anyone a charm. This has problems including people liquidating others charms, and stealing charms. I believe this was one of bigger reasons charms were made to stick on a character. This is something that wouldn't add into the problem of people theifing charms, as a) it is VERY loggable and b) it can't be stolen.. only moved from 1 of your own characters to another.

 

[Bud]

You refuse to answer my request for you to elaborate on your simplistic statements of support, now you say I'm trolling... thank you for your contribution.

Wow.

Two years ago it took way longer to farm a charm because items were vendored for very cheap. Now that item prices have been inflated, get this, more people are buying charms at a faster rate.

How the fuck is that hard to understand?

__________

Example A:
Before vendor prices were tweaked, it took over 9000 hours (rounded up) to farm a 1.2m charm.

Example B:
Since the the new vendor prices and the ability to unenchant have been implemented, more money is entering the economy at a faster rate. This allows more people to buy charms faster, effectively cheapening their value as a plat sink.
__________


For normal people, this conclusion is the product of logic. Here, I'll translate it into real life terms:

You spend five years killing babies in Africa to farm their organs so you can purchase a shiny new BMW. The current market value to "retailers" is as follows:

-$5 for a kidney.
-$10 for a liver.
-$25 for a heart.

However, if you sell the organs you harvested to private buyers their payment reflects the following:

-$500 for a kidney.
-$1000 for a liver.
-$2500 for a heart.

The problem with private purchasers is that they're afraid to get caught, so it takes longer to sell your inventory. Now what happens if, by MAGICAL SUPER POWERS, the "retailers" conveniently increased their flat payment for each by 500%? That's right, you'd be able to buy your BMW five times faster. Why? BECAUSE YOU'RE MAKING MORE FUCKING MONEY. Everyone knows it's more efficient to sell baby organs to a retail store in lieu of peddling them to private stock.

What everyone is trying to tell you is that you are a moron. Too bad they won't man the fuck up and say it.

 

[Cinn]

I am a high level player and I don't like the idea of trading charms at all.

It was dumb before and it would be dumb again, and I see absolutely no reason for it other than "lololol dude check out my alts fomelo hi5 bro"

 

[stope21]

Wow.

Two years ago it took way longer to farm a charm because items were vendored for very cheap. Now that item prices have been inflated, get this, more people are buying charms at a faster rate.

How the fuck is that hard to understand?

Have you considered the fact that the characters of 2 years ago are NOTHING in comparison to the characters we have now. Lets see, the best geared toon from back in the days.. didn't they have sick charms anyways? Don't be a dolt and think before you post. It's always been roughly the same difficulty to get charms, however due primarily to the refinement of farming strategies and the increase in strength of characters have made it somewhat easier. In other ways, however, things have become harder overall to farm.

 

[Loxo]

Magicians are ruining the economy. Charms and items persist or have a redeemable value when expended. Expensive reagents are the only true plat sink, but no one needs them.

Magicians are ruining the economy. Those assholes.

 

[Dzillon]

The idea goes against anything that was ever brought in concerning charms. It would bring a lot of headaches. I call against it too.

 

[Ekyu]

Wow.

Two years ago it took way longer to farm a charm because items were vendored for very cheap. Now that item prices have been inflated, get this, more people are buying charms at a faster rate.

How the fuck is that hard to understand?

It's called, selling retired players charms, duh?


Who had the first 1.2 mil charm? Zhak right?

http://forum.shardsofdalaya.com/showthread.php?t=8714

http://forum.shardsofdalaya.com/showthread.php?t=7901


This happened a lot back then.

 

[Kelval]

Just a question: why are people arguing so hard over a subject an admin basically settled at post #6? To be able to say "I am right and you are wrong"? :tinfoil:

 

[Kirin Folken]

Because this is the Internet

 

[Bud]

Have you considered the fact that the characters of 2 years ago are NOTHING in comparison to the characters we have now. Lets see, the best geared toon from back in the days.. didn't they have sick charms anyways? Don't be a dolt and think before you post. It's always been roughly the same difficulty to get charms, however due primarily to the refinement of farming strategies and the increase in strength of characters have made it somewhat easier. In other ways, however, things have become harder overall to farm.

You can't seriously be trying to argue using statistics.

I remember TWO (2) people "back in the day" having their 1.2m charm -- Linken and Zhak -- and only a few others having their 500k. You're probably thinking, "well, given that much time, anyone has enough to farm 1.2m."

Wrong. There's countless people who didn't start farming until the vendor prices were increased, including myself, who currently (and for some time) have their 200 or 500k charms. Why? Because it's just fucking easier to farm these days. That's a fact.

It's called, selling retired players charms, duh?

Who had the first 1.2 mil charm? Zhak right?

This happened a lot back then.

Wait, what? This result is the purpose of making charms no drop. Also, how the hell is that even relevant to my post?

It STILL took longer to farm money for a charm when they were droppable because players were forced to sell items to other players in lieu of getting 10p from the vendor. Nowdays, people can just farm the fuck out of items and sell them immediately for 600+ plat to vendors. This method is way faster and more efficient than selling items to other players.

 

[Untasid]

Nowdays, people can just farm the fuck out of items and sell them immediately for 600+ plat to vendors. This method is way faster and more efficient than selling items to other players.

*Unless said player farms areas for plat instead of drops.