"Ask Not What SoD Can Do for You ..."
- Thread starter Ryst
- Start date
Haenir
Dalayan Master
I completely second this.
frankzappayay
Dalayan Adventurer
Why even waste your time debating changes when the administrators are unwilling or unable to do anything about it. Waldo and his minions are arrogant dick heads, they think their way is best, suggestions have already been made years ago, but they were never taken seriously because Zaela or whichever egomaniac moron was riding high that year, they always knew best, and Waldo would defend his team, all the way to the single digit populations you get today. They are incapable of swallowing any of their pride to try other ideas.
The problem with this game is not X or Y it is the entire alphabet. A server wipe wont work, the server will end up in the same state again. The problem with this game is that it strayed too far from the game we all came here for in the first place, Everquest... It was a hard game with a long tricky journey in a huge varied world with progression as horizontal as it was vertical. All of that is gone in this game. The starting cities got destroyed and everyone ended up in Newport and Athica and all the charm of the starting areas was destroyed too. The progression that was the hook for every new player got ignored by wannabe elitists who think the uber nerd raid game is the pinnacle of achievement and everything else is just a means to an end. The 1-65 is a one month inconvenience and only noobs with no account details take longer than that, by themselves in empty zones. The other 99% of the population hang around in the same 1 or 2 locations waiting for super important raid time so they can get their fix. The raid game is the obsession and it just isn't interesting or challenging or clever or special. I've played through 10 tiers of it a lot, and I've been engaged, challenged, and entertained far more from group content. But only chaotic pickup groups, not overpowered guild groups. The group content in this game is also lacking, both because of mob placement and stats (changes to sebilis etc from classic), but also because the gear in group content is made worthless by raid gear. The treasure maps is a great feature and fun to do, but it is seen as noob content by the elitist cunts that dominate the server. It is one small stepping stone, not something people can enjoy the intricacies of longer term, same as the group content. Ideas that are supposed to fix all this like the adepts are just half baked gimmicks.
The server not only needs a wipe, but the entire progression from level 1 onwards needs fixing. You can disagree all you want, cling on to your oh so important characters with 5 million tomes, but you'll lose it eventually anyway when you and the other 5 remaining players are finally booted off the dead server when it closes. Project1999 shows the potential for larger numbers, but even that server is run like shit. RMT is rampant, the high end is a nerd troll cockblocking nightmare, it has been stuck on Kunark for years, and boxing is strictly forbidden. ProjectEQ goes the other direction, pure freedom but consequently everyone uses macroquest and runs 30 characters all scripted. There are a lot of people crying out for a legit EQ experience, and nobody delivers it well. Early Winters Roar did a good job of providing improvements to the bits that obviously needed fixing, but still keeping it classic. But it has taken wrong directions and then sprinted in those directions and never been wise enough to look back. Players want more of the old starting areas back, and don't like being funnelled in to the one or two hotzones. It needs to take longer to level up and it needs to be harder. Mudflation needs to go, mobs need to actually kill people, people need to actually run out of mana, paladins need to not be pulling entire zones, blackburrow and crushbone need players, cazic needs people screaming train to zone, etc.. etc.. This game fucked all that up and wonders why only a handful of morons still play.
Not only does the content need changing, but the server's personality needs changing too. Every chatroom, web forum, private server, social media shit hole like reddit or whatever else, they all have their own unique personalities. The hive mind. Most people are desperate to fit in, so whatever personality style crystallises, that is how people will behave. And if there are authority figures present, they will shape the personality of that server whether they intend to or not. The only way to avoid that is to have silent discrete GM's, and then the server can develop its own personality.
Basically there are things you could do to relaunch this game, keeping the good unique features but reworking the rest, and I think it would stand of chance of being very popular, especially if it was advertised. But I don't think the SoD admin. are up to it.
p.s. I only read the first page. This post is just repeating what I already posted years ago but you were incapable of appreciating and you were still sure you were doing it all right. You weren't. Some of us were able to see that even 2 or 3 years ago when you had 500 players.
The problem with this game is not X or Y it is the entire alphabet. A server wipe wont work, the server will end up in the same state again. The problem with this game is that it strayed too far from the game we all came here for in the first place, Everquest... It was a hard game with a long tricky journey in a huge varied world with progression as horizontal as it was vertical. All of that is gone in this game. The starting cities got destroyed and everyone ended up in Newport and Athica and all the charm of the starting areas was destroyed too. The progression that was the hook for every new player got ignored by wannabe elitists who think the uber nerd raid game is the pinnacle of achievement and everything else is just a means to an end. The 1-65 is a one month inconvenience and only noobs with no account details take longer than that, by themselves in empty zones. The other 99% of the population hang around in the same 1 or 2 locations waiting for super important raid time so they can get their fix. The raid game is the obsession and it just isn't interesting or challenging or clever or special. I've played through 10 tiers of it a lot, and I've been engaged, challenged, and entertained far more from group content. But only chaotic pickup groups, not overpowered guild groups. The group content in this game is also lacking, both because of mob placement and stats (changes to sebilis etc from classic), but also because the gear in group content is made worthless by raid gear. The treasure maps is a great feature and fun to do, but it is seen as noob content by the elitist cunts that dominate the server. It is one small stepping stone, not something people can enjoy the intricacies of longer term, same as the group content. Ideas that are supposed to fix all this like the adepts are just half baked gimmicks.
The server not only needs a wipe, but the entire progression from level 1 onwards needs fixing. You can disagree all you want, cling on to your oh so important characters with 5 million tomes, but you'll lose it eventually anyway when you and the other 5 remaining players are finally booted off the dead server when it closes. Project1999 shows the potential for larger numbers, but even that server is run like shit. RMT is rampant, the high end is a nerd troll cockblocking nightmare, it has been stuck on Kunark for years, and boxing is strictly forbidden. ProjectEQ goes the other direction, pure freedom but consequently everyone uses macroquest and runs 30 characters all scripted. There are a lot of people crying out for a legit EQ experience, and nobody delivers it well. Early Winters Roar did a good job of providing improvements to the bits that obviously needed fixing, but still keeping it classic. But it has taken wrong directions and then sprinted in those directions and never been wise enough to look back. Players want more of the old starting areas back, and don't like being funnelled in to the one or two hotzones. It needs to take longer to level up and it needs to be harder. Mudflation needs to go, mobs need to actually kill people, people need to actually run out of mana, paladins need to not be pulling entire zones, blackburrow and crushbone need players, cazic needs people screaming train to zone, etc.. etc.. This game fucked all that up and wonders why only a handful of morons still play.
Not only does the content need changing, but the server's personality needs changing too. Every chatroom, web forum, private server, social media shit hole like reddit or whatever else, they all have their own unique personalities. The hive mind. Most people are desperate to fit in, so whatever personality style crystallises, that is how people will behave. And if there are authority figures present, they will shape the personality of that server whether they intend to or not. The only way to avoid that is to have silent discrete GM's, and then the server can develop its own personality.
Basically there are things you could do to relaunch this game, keeping the good unique features but reworking the rest, and I think it would stand of chance of being very popular, especially if it was advertised. But I don't think the SoD admin. are up to it.
p.s. I only read the first page. This post is just repeating what I already posted years ago but you were incapable of appreciating and you were still sure you were doing it all right. You weren't. Some of us were able to see that even 2 or 3 years ago when you had 500 players.
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Daffie
Dalayan Pious Diety
I saw y
you over on the p99 forums in R&F. Ewwwww
donfolstar3
Dalayan Master
Other than calling out Zaela, who has tons of good ideas and would make this game bitchin' given enough time/authority, you make a lot of good points. One of the things that I found particularly frustrating was that someone identified the whole "raising the level cap fucks the game up so lets not do that" but then proceeded to create such a gearing/power disparity at the endgame that the cap was effectively raised without changing the number. Or maybe that was just a technology limitation with the level cap. Either way the biggest lie perpetuated on this server was the first thing you addressed- this notion that player input matters.
Dinadass
Dalayan Pious Diety
Every now and then somebody asks for something and it does happen. Hell, pet weapons got added to the bounty vendors like half an hour after people were talking to Slaar about it in ooc. But then there are all the large imbalances in classes, worthless underpowered items, content that nobody does, etc that has all been this way for years now.
Pecannius
Dalayan Elder
Comparing the progression of a game where you're paying for expansions 1 to 2 times a year and a monthly subscription fee per account vs a game that is free-to-play with volunteer staff isn't reasonable.
WARNING: I'm going to say something positive. I know it goes against the vibe of this thread, sorry.
To have a game with volunteer staff last this long (7 years or so?) is impressive in itself. With no paid expansions coming out they made a game that is playable and can be enjoyed for quite some time. That's no easy task. The way live worked where every expansion antiquated the gear before it is much easier to do imo.
Of course there are major things that can greatly help the server (as seen in this thread and similar). I don't know the intricate details of the server well enough to know if angry frankzappayay knows what he's talking about, but holy crap, irregardless, take a moment to at least acknowledge some of the great stuff this server has done over the years. Even if the playerbase of people playing isn't huge right now, the playerbase of people who care enough to spend hours complaining on the forums shows that SoD did a great job before and still has a lot of potential.
frankzappayay
Dalayan Adventurer
That was partly due to me forgetting everyone elses name, but partly due to her dumbing down spell resists and whatever else.
I'm not, I bailed on EQ early on, expansions were never important to me. And that's what is the biggest shame, this server set out to improve on EQ but ultimately I would just rather play the world in P99 - ie the original game only, maybe just 1 or 2 expansions. I don't think this game ever had a trouble with quantity, in fact I was always amazed at what the people who worked on this game over the years came up with. Being able to mail stuff to each other, the treasure maps, etc.. it was all like playing classic EQ but with some bonus features and glaring deficiencies fixed. But I think some kind of god complex got in the way and the fundamentals of the game got changed and now it is just like WoW in an EQ engine.
When SoD/WR started, EQ was still doing fine, people like me didn't leave because this was free, we left because EQ had added PoK and stuff that was expansion after expansion screwing the integrity of the game with overpowered items, becoming raid obsessed, neglecting the rest, etc. This server came along and attracted the classic-EQ refugees, it provided the original experience again, let us go to old school zones again and get blasted around by tentacle terrors. But since then it ended up changing everything and ended up doing the same thing that made people leave EQ looking for an emulator in the first place.
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Hesyous
Dalayan Elder
I agree....
I played in 2011, loved it, left because of RL. Came back, loved it, now....bleh. There is no way a casual player can stick with this and have fun. If I were hard core, and could dedicate time, I would love it because those players are so few and I'd be part of a tight crew, but still I'd miss 50% of the content that is out there because casual or not, no one does it.
Ultimately I do see this wonderful creation dying, and I saw it in 2011, but it wasn't AS evident as it is now. I am the type of person who sees and believes. 2.5? lol I'll believe it will bring people back to this game when I see it. People hang on to hope WAY too much. WHICH is perfectly natural for humans btw...don't get me wrong.
Hesyous
Dalayan Elder
On another note:
I think SoD is a much better game than EQ ever was. The Verant & SoE staff were F'ing A$$holes who only cared about what their bosses cared about, money. Plus, the bugs....constant bugs and 'exploits' where rampant. They would last up to YEARS before they were so-called fixed and the fix wasn't a fix, it was, most of the time was a break of content.
Some HardCore dedicated people put a ton of time and effort in to this game and I am amazed at the change from EQ and the beautifully designed content. The staff needs.....the BOSS needs to loosen up on particulars. What they are...honestly I don't know, but I know it would help bring people to this game and especially allow the people who don't have tons of time to play to enjoy playing with others.
Waldo.....yes, you, let it go bro. You can do it!
Give in to your hate.....wait, wrong game.
I think SoD is a much better game than EQ ever was. The Verant & SoE staff were F'ing A$$holes who only cared about what their bosses cared about, money. Plus, the bugs....constant bugs and 'exploits' where rampant. They would last up to YEARS before they were so-called fixed and the fix wasn't a fix, it was, most of the time was a break of content.
Some HardCore dedicated people put a ton of time and effort in to this game and I am amazed at the change from EQ and the beautifully designed content. The staff needs.....the BOSS needs to loosen up on particulars. What they are...honestly I don't know, but I know it would help bring people to this game and especially allow the people who don't have tons of time to play to enjoy playing with others.
Waldo.....yes, you, let it go bro. You can do it!
Give in to your hate.....wait, wrong game.
Daffie
Dalayan Pious Diety
I'll keep playing because this emu is the best out there. It's better than live currently. If we can get the population, life will be a joy. I think the devs have done well up until the content I have played.
I hope more 6 man stuff is added because I'm old and can't play as often anymore. Non-raid advancement +1
I hope more 6 man stuff is added because I'm old and can't play as often anymore. Non-raid advancement +1
I just thought it was funny becuase I've always been so gung-ho in favor of changing and experimenting with anything and everything at the slightest excuse (would make a terrible leader). And there were times I was actually warned about giving contrarian opinions (relative to "the staff") in public too much -- can probably chart the point where I started losing interest to that moment, actually. I haven't really contributed anything to the server in at least two years, so you can probably stop holding me up as anything now.
Not my idea there actually, I just implemented it and offered what arguments I thought there were in its favor when it came time to justify it (don't remember how it came up or what the initial argument was). Would describe my feelings on it as non-commital; not especially worth doing and it does create a bigger inconsistency between nukes and debuffs. Resists could work much much differently and more interestingly, in my opinion, but probably not without going too far from EQ.
frankzappayay
Dalayan Adventurer
It wasn't non commital at the time, it was more like "this is going to be better and if you don't see that then you are a dumb none raid noob, AMIRITE guys?!" and then the hive mind jumped in to defend their game against the evil naysayer. I used to have this same problem with Vanguard, I would make suggestions and the fans jumped on me for being negative about their perfect game. I argued the population was terrible and there were simple changes that could improve that, but the fanboys were scared of change and I told them they would have to accept change one way or another because if they didn't change things the game would die. And now here we are a few years later, that game is gone forever. They got what they deserved, but it is sad (and it was explicitly predictable for me) that the most argumentative fanboys who trolled anyone with a contrary opinion or different ideas, would ultimately be responsible for the destroying their own game. I remember calling it a sinking ship, and the fanboys protected it from the doomasayer's hurtful truth words, meanwhile the ship sank. (I also noticed how those same people would play the game less and less and even quit, but still rallied against any non-SOE ideas.)
The difference between that game and this though, is that this game did make a lot of changes, it's just that they were narrow minded ones and none of the staff ever cared about the average players' opinions. It was all about the old boys club.
The difference between that game and this though, is that this game did make a lot of changes, it's just that they were narrow minded ones and none of the staff ever cared about the average players' opinions. It was all about the old boys club.
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Nebi
Dalayan Pious Diety
what game are you working on now? i'll play that one.
Vitali
Dalayan Master
I think this is particularly funny, because you can go through dozens of posts on these forums (likely far far more) where the population at large would love to see massive extreme changes just to see how things would work out. People want the game to last as long as possible, and don't mind things changing that would retain or attract new players. Problem is, when changes affect so many you can't just make huge changes on a whim otherwise there will be a backlash. All in all, Codex change has been great and people love it. But for changes like that we also have universally disliked changes too. Change is slow in either case, good or bad. Lots of consideration to be made as well as implementation. Things don't just miracle themselves into existence.
Yeah, looking back at that thread I was a pretty big asshole about it. But that was less because I thought it was the best thing ever and more because I was pissed that I had to be the one to defend it knowing it was going in regardless and that I had to make up my own not especially great or well-thought-out arguments for it because it basically came up as a matter of "we should do this, just because," as far as I remember. Implementing it was at least slightly interesting...
But I'll take whatever blame you want, sure. I did a lot of crappy things -- failed experiments that should have been removed a long time ago (lookin' at you, bounty hunting). I'm unstable, bad at dealing with people and especially bad at taking criticism. But I did post a lot back in the day. I was passionate and cared about the game and I hated to see opportunities to try new things squandered. But in the end, having a committed person who at least tried to engage with players on a regular basis was deemed bad for "PR" (seriously). That's kind of where this thing has gone.
Waste of time. I wouldn't know how to make one anyway.
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