Why cant you raise all factions back up?

how can u tell on what faction a mob is before u kill it?! I dont wanna have to "excuse" but i am not a native speaker and was playing a long time already that day so "villager" wasnt anything special to me at that time.. i didnt think much about it.

If you don't know what faction a "villager" is on, then a good rule of thumb would be if they didn't attack you, murdering them in cold blood might not be the best plan of action.
 
Humans make mistakes but if you cannot correct these mistakes its just BS.. this is a game and supposed to be fun.

True, the game is meant to be fun. If it is no longer fun because of a mistake YOU made and cant fix, well then you might have to ask yourself "Is it still fun, even without being 'perfect'?" If the answer is yes, then cool keep playing. If no, then quit again. I dont see this discussion going much further, and just recycling previous arguements. I think we're done here.
 
...you need to take aspects from Real Life. If you lived in a small village, and someone not native (or even native) were to come in an kill three members of your community... tell me how willing you would be to forgive them...

In real life you would be able to ask those people who they were associated with.

thats the thing. you killed members of those guilds/groups. there should be no ammends. Yuo kill a police officer irl you don't get to go help a kitten outta a try and build faction...

A police officer has an easily distinguishable uniform so that no mistake could be made.

Humans make mistakes but if you cannot correct these mistakes its just BS.. this is a game and supposed to be fun.

w0rd.

I was 6 hours deep into working on my UI when it happened to me, the difference between '1' and 'f1' was all it took to completely frak up the city of newport for me.

I don't think it's the realism that people are struggling to swallow, it is the pettiness of this system of things. This is like having the IRS audit you over a 50 cent pack of gum.

P.S. You get brownie points for catching the Battlestar Galactica reference.
 
ThreadNecromancer.jpg
 
You assume the thread was dead, late 08 is barely over a year old and I DID take it's age into consideration before posting. This issue is very much still alive and kicking. Would you rather I made a new thread so you could flame me for not using the search button?
 
Let Old Posts Lie
-Do not revive posts that are several months old. We do not care that you found some guy from 2005 who agrees with your proposal to rename all bards Frank - start a new post.
I'd say yes. It's in the forum rules that you should have read. See below.

http://forum.shardsofdalaya.com/showthread.php?t=8278

No need to thank me for helping, I'll just assume you read them and you don't need to be treated like a kid. Do not make me wrong.
 
I hate this offensive attitude I am getting from everyone on this board. Why am I immediately being put on the defensive? I have no proposal that this thread is in agreement with, I have not requested that any changes be made. All I did was acknowledge that this is still a PROBLEM; Not a solution or suggestion, I have offered no such ideas. And before you start quoting me rules, check them first, because you know what? I did. I don't need you pointing out dates, I already checked them. And now I don't need you pointing out rules, I checked them too before posting.

Speaking of which I found them to be kinda of lacking, for example ( oh and this is a suggestion ) There is not a subsection of "Suggestions & Requests Rules" that would be suitable for topics such as the faction system (unrelated to what this thread is discussing of course) Here are the list of rules for S&R, as provided by SoD, so you can review them yourself. If there is another magical rule set I hope the SoD gods help it find the way to the sticky button.

SPOILER ALERT: There is no "Let Old Post Lie" Rule.

List of things that are not going to happen:
http://forum.shardsofdalaya.com/showthread.php?t=11597

Suggestions & Requests Rules [READ BEFORE POSTING CHUCKLEBERRIES]:
http://forum.shardsofdalaya.com/showthread.php?t=11596

Regarding the Client [READ BEFORE POSTING]:
http://forum.shardsofdalaya.com/showthread.php?t=9651

I think J-ROC said it the best on TPB so I'll let him close the thread...
"What Tha Fuck You Talkin' Bout Inflatable Elvis!?"
 
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Let's not fight. TheVille, there is a 'Let Old Posts Die' rule in the forum rules - not in the S&R specific rules, but in the over-all rules (the link was provided.)

Anyway, since this thread has been revived...

The comparisons made with real life in this thread (cops and robbers and small villages) are a waste of time in this case, in my opinion. The 'cops' of SoD are quite easily recognizable (you know a city guard when you see one.) These were random people who were not KoS to the OP, which should have told him that their affiliation was with a group that was not hostile to him (yet) and he attacked and killed them anyway (out of greed or curiosity, it doesn't really matter.)

There have been some faction hits that directly effect progression, such as the Blackscale hit that was in the Rogue's Hood quest (see Blackscale faction fix?) that the devs have fixed in the past. If a class quest required a caster, a monk, a warrior, a cleric or paladin (assuming these are the classes associated with those factions, my information on the matter is a little sketchy) to kill those particular mobs, then it really could be a problem. Or even if they were KoS to begin with. But omg, can't take my bard into the warrior guild? Not really a problem, especially considering it was player error (ignorance is no excuse for stupidity, and killing everything you see amounts to that.)

It's completely possible to be a totally normal player with plenty of the NPC guilds pissed at you. I was playing on an Iksar Necromancer alt for a guildmate a few months back, and I had to invis to take the front-way out of the Newport Sewers guild, because Cagemistress Crellnia was by default KoS - just meant I needed to invis or take another route. Or take a look at the Blackscale quests sometime - you'll tank several of the same guilds' factions that the OP mentioned. Should they all be redeemable? Why? As far as they're concerned, you are a bad person who killed people from their guild - that means they don't like you anymore. Adding faction redemption quests, or removing the faction hits from those particular mobs, is at the discretion of the developers, and as of yet, they haven't seen this is as being a problem. The choices you make should have weight; that's a pretty heavy theme throughout this game, certainly a large part of the immersion.

This whole thing is like someone QQing because they killed Grundar in Shrouded Isle and screwed their faction with Erudin - he wasn't bothering you, you made the random choice to slaughter him. And if you really want comparisons to real life (and it's be said previously in this thread) then there should be consequences for deciding to murder people who weren't bothering you in the least just because you thought they might be your ticket to phats.
 
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I'd say yes. It's in the forum rules that you should have read. See below.

http://forum.shardsofdalaya.com/showthread.php?t=8278

No need to thank me for helping, I'll just assume you read them and you don't need to be treated like a kid. Do not make me wrong.

I am going to agree with TheVille that the correction I have quoted is only slightly helpful and mostly hurtful. The tone of it's message is, "You're stupid. See, I know more and I am helping your dumb ass." Perhaps I should also refer to the rule about Backseat Moderation, but then I might be a backseat moderator. Damn! A catch 22!

A simple respectful, "I see your point and respect your questioning of the subject, but it is stipulated in our rules in this thread . . ." so on and so forth.

This brings me to a point in what this thread is about, making negative permanent faction. This community only hurts itself when it throws up huge walls and cuts large chasms between them and the new or newer players. We create bad faction that is hard to reverse. We will then potentially lose players. While the server is not empty, it is not hugely populated. We do a disservice to the player community by pushing away potentially good players because they rez a thread or two.
While the rez was against the rules, it is a minor rule and his argument is valid. Plus, let the mods do their job. They are much better suited for correcting people while keeping the insults to a minimum.

Edit: Sorry, I type and think slow. Rari had not posted when I started my reply.
 
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Let's not fight. TheVille, there is a 'Let Old Posts Die' rule in the forum rules - not in the S&R specific rules, but in the over-all rules (the link was provided.)

Anyway, since this thread has been revived...

The comparisons made with real life in this thread (cops and robbers and small villages) are a waste of time in this case, in my opinion. The 'cops' of SoD are quite easily recognizable (you know a city guard when you see one.) These were random 'people' who were not KoS to the OP, which should have told him that their affiliation was with a group that was not hostile to him (yet) and he attacked and killed them anyway (out of greed or curiosity, it doesn't really matter.)

There have been some faction hits that directly effect progression, such as the Blackscale hit that was in the Rogue's Hood quest (see Blackscale faction fix?) that the devs have fixed in the past. If a class quest required a caster, a monk, a warrior, a cleric or paladin (assuming these are the classes associated with those factions, my information on the matter is a little sketchy) then it would be a problem. Or even if they were KoS to the OP to begin with, somehow. But omg, can't take my bard into the warrior guild? Not really a problem, especially considering it was player error (ignorance is no excuse for stupidity, and killing everything you see amounts to that.)

It's completely possible to be a totally normal player with plenty of the NPC guilds pissed at you. I was playing on an Iksar Necromancer alt for a guildmate a few months back, and I had to invis to take the front-way out of the Newport Sewers guild, because Cagemistress Crellnia was by default KoS. Or take a look at the Blackscale quests sometime - you'll tank several of the same guilds' factions that the OP mentioned. Should they all be redeemable? Why? As far as they're concerned, you are a bad person who killed people from their guild - that means they don't like you anymore. Adding faction redemption quests, or removing the faction hits from those particular mobs, is at the discretion of the developers, and as of yet, they haven't seen this is as being a problem. The choices you make should have weight; that's a pretty heavy theme throughout this game, certainly a large part of the immersion.

This whole thing is like someone QQing because they killed Grundar in Shrouded Isle and screwed their faction with Erudin - he wasn't bothering you, you made the random choice to slaughter him. And if you really want comparisons to real life (and it's be said previously in this thread) then there should be consequences for deciding to murder people who weren't bothering you in the least just because you thought they might be your ticket to phats.
 
I apologize also for getting a little hot headed. Nice to see that diffused, most forums would let that spiral out of control.

I agree that guild factions will get screwy and it will make life harder but it has to be accepted as a part of the game. I can find a way to accept the reasoning for it being permenant. My issue (and this is why I got caught up in all this and resurrected the thread) is how it happened, why it happened, and my point of progression in the game. In my mind when this happened: I am in the middle of the newport ring quest, I am in the middle of some hardcore tradeskill grinding, and my primary route of transportation is Sewers->WarGuild->MOP,Docks,The Gate (I know the exits, that is the most central one in my opinion to those 3 destinations). I am dependent on things such as the pottery wheel which are in the open near guards (sewers do not provide every merchant or device for tradeskills).

Yes, I have to accept that all of those luxury's are gone and should not be given back. I just don't feel like it was and eye for an eye (even though literally this is) but damn, in eq prospective, would you expect a major faction shift to occur after 1 accidental killing? 3? Hell I think 5 is still reasonable before becoming KOS. And in my mind it is even worse, because in my mind I wasnt even playing, felt more like working than playing. Damn UI.
 
Well, you could always look into an item that will let you invis past the NPCs who are now KoS, assuming your class doesn't have that spell available already, and that they don't see invis (in my experience, the ones you are talking about specifically shouldn't.) So if using that route is your only real concern here, that might be your best bet. Sure, it's bit of a pain (especially if invis drops or you forget to use it, but you'll get a nice, deadly reminder!) but not the end of the world. ;)
 
If you want to make a realism argument, then killing some random person in the middle of nowhere with nobody around to see it happen and somehow getting a faction hit makes no sense. Or killing everyone in sight shouldn't either, because how does anyone know it was you? There are lots of people traveling through a given area, and it would be nearly impossible to figure out who did it. I am not saying that these things should not give a faction hit, just that it is silly to make RL comparisons. I agree there should be a way to max ally any faction. It is more realistic to believe there is a way to improve your standing with any group than having a group that will never allow you to get involved with them. Plus the game is not just about raiding, some people like questing, some like TSing, and I have known some people who are interested in maxing as many factions as possible, that option should be there (even if there are opposing factions that can never be maxed at the same time).
 
If you're one of those people who want to max as many factions as possible you probably shouldn't go around killing non-kos NPCs, huh?
 
That has nothing to do with the fact there are factions that cannot be raised, does it? I am not one of those people, nor do I go around killing non-KoS NPCs so I fail to see your point.
 
Please calm down. Reiker was referring to the issue that was being discussed in the thread, he wasn't attacking you. No one here knows what you do in game, Pkin1, only what's been discussed. In context, his response made sense. You'll see that if you read the previous posts with a level head.

As to the matter you're nerd-raging over:
... have known some people who are interested in maxing as many factions as possible, that option should be there (even if there are opposing factions that can never be maxed at the same time).

The guild factions are related to your class. You chose a class when you created a character. You can raise your faction with that class' related guilds by doing quests. I don't see any reason a warrior would give shit about the caster guild's business, other than a player's completionist attitude. There are plenty of factions that can be worked on in game within the game lore. Just because a faction exists, doesn't mean you should be able to max it. You can look at it like this: Everyone has CLASS faction they can work on. That faction has a different name (or possibly several?), depending on the class. You can screw the CLASS faction. You can screw other factions (again, Blackscale faction quests should be mentioned) or you can maintain whatever default faction your character started with. There are ways to raise certain factions. Cult of Entropy, the faction tied to the sewer necromancer class quests/gradalsh quests comes to mind; You can raise this faction by killing certain NPCs, but this will lower your faction with a certain opposing CLASS guild. So again, this falls into the 'you can't max everything' category.

Since I have an agenda, and there is obvious vexing on the matter of factions, I'd like to mention that the Faction pages on the wiki are still terribly incomplete. Everything found on those pages is added remotely - you can add faction information to NPC and Quest pages to update the information found on them. If anyone is interested in helping, please do. If you'd like to help and aren't sure how, let me know by leaving me a note on my wiki talk page, or asking in #sod on our IRC server if I'm available.
 
Simple solution to the pottery wheel problem. /cm housekey
Pay for and install pottery wheel. never worry about guards while TS-ing again.
 
I suppose this can be a problem especially if a mob that gives factionhits with mobs you might wanna befriend starts out kos to you (hi ikisith). I'd love to see a spell (possible to mem and on some easy to get item for melee classes) that lets you target a mob and see what his alliances are: ie what faction hits killing him will give you. This would save so much pain.
 
I suppose this can be a problem especially if a mob that gives factionhits with mobs you might wanna befriend starts out kos to you (hi ikisith). I'd love to see a spell (possible to mem and on some easy to get item for melee classes) that lets you target a mob and see what his alliances are: ie what faction hits killing him will give you. This would save so much pain.

Sweet idea. :dance:

Maybe some sort of clicky (or tome skill?) Maybe from The Grand Library? Just thinking this sounds like a cousin to Bard AA Jayla's Insight.
 
Sweet idea. :dance:

Maybe some sort of clicky (or tome skill?) Maybe from The Grand Library? Just thinking this sounds like a cousin to Bard AA Jayla's Insight.

clickie book buyable from grand library sounds like a sweet idea for it.
 
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