Weaken the anti-pug rule

pugs are a really good way to meet people that you wouldn't normally, pugs let people make friends outside of their social circle and promote inter guild relations rather than rivalries. I still do not understand why anyone at all cares about ringers. everyone is just so upset that someone else didn't have to do it the same way they did. big fat hairy deal.
 
jew_nose_it said:
I don't understand why you are so upset you can't raid with GS in every zone, raid with them in the zones you can and enjoy your time spent doing that.
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Probably because FWF doesn't kill anything that drops wisdom archaic fragments and GS kills everything that drops wisdom archaic fragments. This was discussed maybe a page ago.
 
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jew_nose_it said:
I don't think it's fair to allow T13 toons to be doing IP mobs regardless of whether or not the guild they are raiding with can kill the content..
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WHY, why is this not fair? is it because you had to do it the hard way and someone else is going to not have to? Is it because you feel like your in game "accomplishments" are worth anything at all? who cares, get over it. why does it matter if some people choose to take the easy way. I think you'd be hard pressed to find any guild or person on the server that has never benefited from off tier characters on their raids anyway.

I legitimately do not understand this argument of "fair"

edit: I might understand it but I do not hate humanity enough to really believe that i am right.
 
meyers said:
Probably because FWF doesn't kill anything that drops wisdom archaic fragments and GS kills everything that drops wisdom archaic fragments. This was discussed maybe a page ago.
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Any of the wisdom based toons in FWF can duo trash in w/e zone they need to get a fragment in with the right box, be it a Monk, SK, Paladin, or Warrior. I did read every post in this thread but I probably forgot most of them, sorry.
 
burt6 said:
WHY, why is this not fair? is it because you had to do it the hard way and someone else is going to not have to? Is it because you feel like your in game "accomplishments" are worth anything at all? who cares, get over it. why does it matter if some people choose to take the easy way. I think you'd be hard pressed to find any guild or person on the server that has never benefited from off tier characters on their raids anyway.

I legitimately do not understand this argument of "fair"

edit: I might understand it but I do not hate humanity enough to really believe that i am right.
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True fair might be relative, but from what I can tell, devs like it when their content is killed by on tier toons, not run roughshod over by a bunch of ringers.
 
jew_nose_it said:
True fair might be relative, but from what I can tell, devs like it when their content is killed by on tier toons, not run roughshod over by a bunch of ringers.
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god forbid someone does something in a way contrary to how it was envisioned years and years after the content came out. this is something that every single mmo ever has had to deal with. putting shackles on the playerbase and saying do it my way or else usually goes over pretty well.

But I do not want to put words into the devs mouths. I'm sure if any of them are really upset by someone beating their content off-teir they will come into this thread and say that. maybe within a few weeks of it being posted who knows we will see.
 
also whats the deal with your forums name, people get banned from the game for less than that and you've posted it 790 times. That's like spamming a racial epithet in every thread you've posted in.
 
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burt6 said:
WHY, why is this not fair? is it because you had to do it the hard way and someone else is going to not have to? Is it because you feel like your in game "accomplishments" are worth anything at all? who cares, get over it. why does it matter if some people choose to take the easy way. I think you'd be hard pressed to find any guild or person on the server that has never benefited from off tier characters on their raids anyway.
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pretty much no one who likes these not good anti-pug rules had to "do it the hard way" of learning how to kill things themselves and/or doing things completely on-tier without absorbing better geared characters/players from a dead guild. it's more a self-interest internet loot thing. hope this helps
 
There is a total of 147 zones in this game. Out of these zones, a mere 7 have PuG limitations. Is that really so waaaah unfair and unreasonable that you need to make thread after thread bitching about it?
 
Nwaij said:
There is a total of 147 zones in this game. Out of these zones, a mere 7 have PuG limitations. Is that really so waaaah unfair and unreasonable that you need to make thread after thread bitching about it?
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How many of those zones are raid zones?
 
Nwaij said:
There is a total of 147 zones in this game. Out of these zones, a mere 7 have PuG limitations. Is that really so waaaah unfair and unreasonable that you need to make thread after thread bitching about it?
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obviously yes. that is why people have made "thread after thread bitching about it."
 
fuwok said:
The anti-pug rule was designed to prevent pick-up raids (hereinafter "pugs") from running roughshod over the mid/low tier guilds in search of quest drops. It was also put in place because the former rule where 2/3 of the raid had to be flagged for the content was time-consuming for the GMs to enforce.

What I propose is that the GM staff amend this rule to include a Guild Mixer Provision wherein a majority of one guild and a minority of another guild (both guilds flagged/keyed for the content in question) would be allowed to cooperatively raid together.

Here are some perks of this plan:

1. It promotes social interaction between guilds.
2. It is easy for the Staff to verify that both guilds are flagged/keyed and does not send them on a flag/key-checking wild goose chase of 18 individual people.
3. It allows the friends who have been split up by guild tags to have raids together that are not backfarming raids.
4. Members of a friendly guild could help fill out an inadequate raid in lieu of boxing the same tired characters

What this plan won't cause:

1. Pick-up raiding sanctum all tank loot claimed
2. Diminishment of mid-tier targets
3. The general feeling of being excluded by virtue of players or by virtue of rules

This, my internet friends, is a proposed rule designed to let Novus and Goons cooperate in yclist if they wanted to, or my internet friend Nwaij come to Abyss with me if he wanted to. This promotes harmony between the guilds in the "non-puggable" areas and could also help minimize rotted high-end quest pieces, which are forced to rot at this point because it is forbidden to bring in a high-end buddy from a similarly keyed guild to take the piece.

Ladies and gentlemen of Dalaya: I am not asking you to open the floodgates and to bring back the Bad Old Days. I am merely asking you to amend this rule so that on tier players from keyed guilds can work together in the keyed zones.
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Quoted so that people that clearly do not understand the request can misinterpret it again and continue posting Grupo-esque what-ifs
 
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Obscenitor said:
How many of those zones are raid zones?
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There is a total of 30 explicit raid zones with multiple targets:
Code: 
Azmaen, The Heart of Frost 
Azzerach, the Forsaken Realm 
Caverns of Darkness 
Caverns of the Deep One 
City of Mercy 
Dragonhorn Keep 
Everchill Caverns 
Grobb Undercity 
Haegra Malath 
Halls of Misery 
Plane of Air 
Plane of Earth 
Plane of Entropy 
Plane of Nightmare 
Plane of Valor 
Prison of Admyrrza 
Prophet's Landing 
Sepulcher of Darkness 
Stormkeep 
Storm's Eye 
Stronghold of Enthann 
The Abyss 
The Rust 
The Spires of Saitha 
The Temple of Elael 
Tower of Tarhyl 
Towers of Agony 
Tur`Ruj 
Western Wastelands 
Yclist, The Veiled City

Then there are another 21 zones with raid targets:
Code: 
Cauldron of dawn 
Dragon Necropolis 
Dreadfang Spire 
Dreadlands 
Eastern Wastelands 
Faentharc Woods 
Field of Bone 
Fire Grottos 
Gorge of the One-Eye 
High Keep 
Kedge Keep 
Mielech's Lair 
North Freeport 
Shar Vahl 
Steamfont Mountains 
Thazeran's Tower 
The Eternal Well 
The Murk 
The Remnants of Old Ikild 
The Tears of Elael 
West Freeport

And then there are also all those zones with 6man stuff that may or may not count:
Code: 
Catacombs of Elthannar 
Citadel of the Claw 
Cyrtho Malath 
Emberflow Caverns 
Ruins of First City 
The Bloodied Quarry
So that leaves us with 51 zones (57 if you count 6mans), 7 of them being unpuggable. So my question still stands, is it really that bad?
 
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cian2 said:
people in flagged guilds should be able to accompany people in different guilds if both guilds are flagged. ie. FWF and goon squad should be able to raid IP together. exo/CW should be able to raid spires together (lol) etc
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agree
 
Nwaij said:
So that leaves us with 52 zones (58 if you count 6mans), 7 of them being unpuggable. So my question still stands, is it really that bad?
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Thank you for demonstrating that if you add 7 zones to that list, people that might raid those zones will not be distraught when a two guild co-op gets in there first, as they will have 58 other zones to choose from (64 if you count 6mans).
 
Obscenitor said:
Thank you for demonstrating that if you add 7 zones to that list, people that might raid those zones will not be distraught when a two guild co-op gets in there first, as they will have 58 other zones to choose from (64 if you count 6mans).
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Fist pump irl
 
Obscenitor said:
Thank you for demonstrating that if you add 7 zones to that list, people that might raid those zones will not be distraught when a two guild co-op gets in there first, as they will have 58 other zones to choose from (64 if you count 6mans).
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1) the 7 unpuggable zones are in the list allready, so it doesn't get any higher then 57 zones atm.
2) why has the so-called guild co-op (lets call it PuG instead?) to go on one of the 7 zones that are not puggable when there are so many other zones to choose from? Is it that far fetched that some places simply aren't meant to be visited by any number of people who aren't in the same guild?
 
Nwaij said:
2) why has the so-called guild co-op (lets call it PuG instead?) to go on one of the 7 zones that are not puggable when there are so many other zones to choose from? Is it that far fetched that some places simply aren't meant to be visited by any number of people who aren't in the same guild?
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Because otherwise you wouldn't be able to do those zones unless your guild did them -- is it that far fetched that a dude wants to raid something that he is keyed for but their guild doesn't/will never raid?
 
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