Weaken the anti-pug rule

Anti Eh said:
you can throw novus/exo/cw/prophey/dalaya beginner into this thread
the only ones that will benefit the most are ppl that are friends with fwf players.
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ngl, I think it would be kinda sick to have CW and exo team up for some raids. It would end up being a fucking pwn force. So no, not only the people who are friends with fwf would benefit from this!!!!!!!
 
Cinn said:
you know whats fun? killing things. getting loot.

twinking out a character in raid drops is awesome.

it's fun.

everyone likes it.

You know what people didn't like? Steel putting 6 level 20's or whatever in their raid and then CAMPING THEM OUT and bringing in 6 players OUT OF RAID to make 18 and letting their alts then log back in and get the loot.

That was bullshit.

That wasn't fun.

Instead of just making *that one thing* against the rules there have been giant sweeping policy changes in regards to low level looting, claim numbers and pug limitations.

It's not fun. It's stupid. It's restrictive.

These rules hurt people more than any of the twinking or PUG raids ever did.

Stop this.
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Level 20s! LOLOLOLOLOL (ps, we never used characters below 65, or at least not when I was there). People also only did this because there was no other content in the game that was finished and people got bored and then quit/got banned/etc.

It is funny that people cared about it since other guilds had done it/GMs had done it/etc until someone got upset about it. I don't care one way or another. I hate alts. The low end content in this game is awful. Most of the content is, and so is restricting any of it to make it even more unfun.

The fact that other people care how another toon gets geared is beyond me. Sure, the guild drama is fun. Shit talking is fun, but I have never cared about what pixels someone has on their toon. All that mattered to me was hanging with bros and slaying dragons. Trust me, I never stayed around for the content/rules/staff/most of the community.
 
Regarding the list of Raidzones, how many of thoose are T10+ and is PuGable versus how many are T10+ and NOT PuGable?

Just curious of what happens when you grow up on server with friends and old guildies spliting up in other guilds and raiding on tier or lower but not too low more or less gets impossible now.

If two guilds (or three or four) are flaged for content, why the hell cant they have the right to team up when they want to?
 
fae is way off topic here but it is not broken all fights are triggerable

tm really made it to mess with people like put a lot of effort into making it so even how to trigger is really a learning experience that you won't get the first time and it is in fact unlikely that even people who do the content regularly know exactly how it works!!!! get back in there and work it out!!!!
 
Slaariel said:
fae is way off topic here but it is not broken all fights are triggerable

tm really made it to mess with people like put a lot of effort into making it so even how to trigger is really a learning experience that you won't get the first time and it is in fact unlikely that even people who do the content regularly know exactly how it works!!!! get back in there and work it out!!!!
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This and if you think it is retarded and obscure then you are with the majority. Don't however think that because you didn't trigger the boss correctly that GMs are not favoring you. Dumb.

Also tier 13 will be easier for the next up and coming guild. Why? Because despite everyones best efforts strats will be leaked and you all wont have to deal with all the bugshit that the guild before you did ontop of learning said strat. "Custom raid content" lol... People who do raid stuff first on this server GENERALLY get the short end of the stick in terms of time invested. Truth.

Also I agree with Cinn, I hate all these stupid rules. End stupid rules.
 
Also to people encountering problems with raids/content in game. IRC really is the best way to get a hold of us. Including me. In fact its probably the only way to get a hold of me. Just saying.
 
Anti Eh said:
you can throw novus/exo/cw/prophey/dalaya beginner into this thread
the only ones that will benefit the most are ppl that are friends with fwf players.
which in most cases will be goon squad since most of fwf and gs are friends / play / irc / dev together etc..

if the probelm is ur guild doesnt want to raid a unpuggable zone for your last frag.
then chances are you should be looking for different friends.
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the only ones that will benefit the most are ppl that are friends with fwf playersI tried to bring in a lower tier friend of mine to Yclist to loot my rots couldnt do it even though it would have just been the 2 of us just because he was in a guild than me. I've known this dude a long time hell we even used to be guilded together, but I Joined a higher tier guild and he got left behind....

if the probelm is ur guild doesnt want to raid a unpuggable zone for your last frag.
then chances are you should be looking for different friends

My guild has helped me a SHIT LOAD! i mean a buttload! so don't get me wrong, and im not personally attacking you at all Anti. But trying to get even a SINGLE person from my guild to go to Yclist to help me kill trash for my r2 is next to impossible. Sure i can solo a couple slimes, at the entrance but i sure as shit cant do the undead guards. i hear there's other slimes in the zone but i have absolutley no idea how to get to them if trash is up because my guild simply doesnt raid the zone.


My personal opinions: Yclist shouldnt be on the dont pug zone just on the concept everythings a bitch and everyone hates it.

Abyss shouldnt be on the do not pug zone because FFS its 12 man not 18 man. QQ

Inner Sanctum i can see being a non pug zone, OP and IP i see targets up in there all the time that arent killed just because guilds arent strong enough or they are way past it. (pugs should be able to kill these)

Val B again trash and nameds are so stupid rough for that tier that pugs almost never win anything anyways. Should be puggable especially considering the work it takes any one person on that raid to key everyone in.

Spires: don't make me lol. oh noes a FWF and Exo pug, or an CW and Exo "pug" or maybe exo and SB" lolz lolz lolz.

Turuj HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

These rules were put in place to make "progression" zones guild only....

Now this arguement goes both ways... but i put this here cause im against it.

WTF is a "progression zone?" Whats the difference between a pug Killing mobs in lower ToT and Val B? loots about on tier? whats the difference between Frost and IP? etc etc etc
 
oozu1234 said:
My personal opinions: Yclist shouldnt be on the dont pug zone just on the concept everythings a bitch and everyone hates it.
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A guild wouldn't be allowed to raid in there prior to killing The Ward Come Alive, why should it be any different for a PuG?

oozu1234 said:
Abyss shouldnt be on the do not pug zone because FFS its 12 man not 18 man. QQ
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Abyss was designed with guilds in mind, to give them extra targets on this tier. So opening this to PuGs would destroy its original purpose.

oozu1234 said:
Inner Sanctum i can see being a non pug zone, OP and IP i see targets up in there all the time that arent killed just because guilds arent strong enough or they are way past it. (pugs should be able to kill these)
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Again, a guild wouldn't be allowed to raid OP unless they killed GotSS, IP unless they killed Taeshlin, Sanctum unless they killed Nexus of the Ward. Why should it be any different for a PuG?

oozu1234 said:
Val B again trash and nameds are so stupid rough for that tier that pugs almost never win anything anyways. Should be puggable especially considering the work it takes any one person on that raid to key everyone in.
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A guild wouldn't be allowed to ValorB before they beat ValorA, why would it be any different for a PuG?

The exact same reasoning goes for spires and Tur'rujik.



oozu1234 said:
WTF is a "progression zone?" Whats the difference between a pug Killing mobs in lower ToT and Val B? loots about on tier? whats the difference between Frost and IP? etc etc etc
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A progression zone in the context of this rule is a zone that you can only enter after you have progressed through some specific other content.
 
Nwaij, this rebuttal squarely misses the point that two guilds working together to do content for which they are both flagged is not a pug raid and is totally outside of the scope of what the original, overly broad and extremely harsh rule is aimed at preventing.

That's what this thread is about, not all these panicky posts about what-if that the opposition keeps bringing up.
 
If we're at the point where the only thing standing in the way of doing this is that "It sure is easy to keep things the way they are" then this should be changed right away.

This rule is an impediment to fun and friendship. Somewhere it is making a GMs job less than 1% easier to just tell everybody don't help each other.

/who all raidzone
6 Guild A
12 Guild B

GM brain gears start turning
Is Guild A flagged? ok yes
Is Guild B flagged? ok yes

Job done.

This isn't an unreasonable request by any stretch of the imagination.
 
Nwaij said:
I dunno, current rule is sure easier to enforce then what you suggest.
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It is not any different than the effort required to enforce the current rule.

/who all

HARD.

Also, I find it entertaining that you are continuously ignoring the fact that this thread is NOT asking for these zones to be puggable but rather that two guilds that are flagged to do the zone can cooperate to raid that zone.
 
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There is a staff meeting this weekend and in all honesty we already have a lot of changes to PUG rules coming down the pike. The holiday and staff vacations really put us behind on switching some of these collaterally damaging rules (that are good intentioned regardless of what tinfoilers think) around. I ask that you wait to repost anything about the PUG stuff until the post staff thread announcement.
 
As the mouthpiece of the internet I can speak for everyone when I say that we are waiting with bated breath. Also baited breath, because we spend so much time on the internet playing video games that we can only afford to eat fishing bait. Mmmm. Worms.
 
this post is not tinfoiling its the way it is.

top teir guilds are not supposed to stay around forever.
suggesting for changing of rules so top teir guilds can have fun with lower teir friends
and still stay top teir cause atm their guild is out of content but is the only guild that kills content they want loot from
instead of disbanding and joining said lower teir guild like everyone else whos has guildies that stop playing
seems to just promote an inner circle at the top that is able to sub in ppl of their choice
without having to /ooc guild recruiting like all other guilds.
 
Ruin players getting bored of the game, running out of content, leaving the guild and making new friends
outside of Ruin. And in turn joining lower end end guilds and beinging the server teir in general up.
Is part of a cycle that should not be interupted by asking for edits to rules that are in place to
Promote Fairness, over fun.
 
I'm not in FWF and will bash any ideas that support them in any way.

( because i was removed from their guild for being a dick )
(not really)
 
@ Nwaij: Then why can't a pug go and kill GoTSS if its up (which it is ALL the time) and then go raid OP?, Personally i LOVED the 3/4 rule! . i understand it was hard for staff to enforce and i see why it was changed. I just wish we had something similar to the old 3/4 rule. i don't believe pugs should be able to just run rampant in every zone. but i also don't think any zone should be STRICTLY OFF LIMITS!

@Waldo: Thanks no more input from me!
 
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