We All Love Monks, Here

If you think the parses are wrong, you are invited to show up and beat up a mob. You have, in fact, been invited for several months now. I have built up a lot of data for many different classes and many different tiers on parse mobs. I agree that real raid mobs are different from a static parse mob, but I am not balancing vs. raid mobs, I am balancing class vs. class. Monks do great damage now.. better than they ever have. If your parses do not reflect this, I can only apologize that your single data point conflicts with a very large accumulation of data. I have given up trying to convince anyone at this point--you can either accept that you do more damage than you did under any other system at any time in SoD history or you can keep posting about how your raid parse is all messed up. I know the truth and would prefer you all live in the real world along with me. The monk focus thing is an extra cherry on top of a very large and extensive ice cream sundae.
 
I haven't bothered parsing much lately. The parses I have done or seen show a significant drop from pre-change. I just know that when I do play my monk these days, he's worse in pretty much every aspect besides the /s 6 always being on, which I'd love if it didn't come at the expense of making everything else worse. You say it's all great now. We can agree to completely disagree. Any data I'd post is obviously not gonna do anything to sway you. Thanks for your time and effort. I'm sure you had better things to do.
 
logged on today and the changes were noticeable without parsing. tanking and dps seemed much improved compared to a couple weeks ago.
 
Slaar your patch notes say monk tankability is at an all-time high. What do monks have now that is better than S15 + Avoidance/Lifetap combo? I'm just curious because from the various patch notes I don't really see anything that would replace the sizeable avoidance boost we lost.
 
Dinadass said:
Slaar your patch notes say monk tankability is at an all-time high. What do monks have now that is better than S15 + Avoidance/Lifetap combo? I'm just curious because from the various patch notes I don't really see anything that would replace the sizeable avoidance boost we lost.
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i really wish you played a shaman instead..... I would be healing like a cleric by now
 
Nebi said:
i really wish you played a shaman instead..... I would be healing like a cleric by now
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It's an honest question man. I don't plan on playing again any time soon regardless of how good monks are, it just seemed like an odd patch note based on my understanding of the class changes. Maybe his math shows the slight mitigation boost from the aux changes (since they apply when the monk is tanking I think?) outweighs the avoidance boost from s15 and avoidance combo which also included a self heal, I'm dubious though.
 
Dinadass said:
It's an honest question man. I don't plan on playing again any time soon regardless of how good monks are, it just seemed like an odd patch note based on my understanding of the class changes. Maybe his math shows the slight mitigation boost from the aux changes (since they apply when the monk is tanking I think?) outweighs the avoidance boost from s15 and avoidance combo which also included a self heal, I'm dubious though.
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i think he means they tank better overall and not tanking one specific way for a couple of minutes.
 
Also I must agree with Dindass. What makes a Mnk more tanky? Before I had S15, now I have s3 which is obviously less than S15. It was also my understanding that because you don't want Mnks being such OP tanks you didn't allow the bonus you get from auxing while to even been given while tanking. That was why it was worded "while auxing" while deflecting dmg but not tanking.

Maybe I misunderstood this, but if that is true then Mnks cant tank worth a dime compared to before, especially if this is not true as S15 u could activate while ramp tanking, takin WW, Tanking, and during PS. Not to mention S15 lasted a long time. So unless those bonuses are enough to cover S15, and are received while tanking the statement "Mnks tank better now than ever!" is incorrect.
 
Jaec said:
Also I must agree with Dindass. What makes a Mnk more tanky? Before I had S15, now I have s3 which is obviously less than S15. It was also my understanding that because you don't want Mnks being such OP tanks you didn't allow the bonus you get from auxing while to even been given while tanking. That was why it was worded "while auxing" while deflecting dmg but not tanking.

Maybe I misunderstood this, but if that is true then Mnks cant tank worth a dime compared to before, especially if this is not true as S15 u could activate while ramp tanking, takin WW, Tanking, and during PS. Not to mention S15 lasted a long time. So unless those bonuses are enough to cover S15, and are received while tanking the statement "Mnks tank better now than ever!" is incorrect.
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i tank perfectly fine on lowako and have absolutely disgusting aggro, but between the /s 3 and taps, and the aux bonus and taking way less damage on ramp i'd consider it an overall gain to the old system in terms of not dying. tbh i havent parsed but the dmg numbers seem pretty okay (although weapons scaling from shaman stats and buffs is kind of lame, but i hate buffs in general so). Conceptually, this system is pretty good but just needs a little tuning in terms of gear itemization.
 
On my T3-T4 monk I'm parsing a little higher then my highest parses under the combo system. In terms of tank, my shaman stays at fm a lot more while duoing as I don't have to nerf my evasion for full dps. On the whole it feels like an improvement over the old system for my tier and style of play. Thanks for the continued effort Slaar.
 
If you are so displeased with the state of the game and the way the staff treats the players, the solution is to find something else to do. There are lots of activities that are more fun than building up impotent rage at a video game :'(
 
Just for some reference, I was boxing Gegen in CoD other day for some ringer raiding.
I mostly only used /s 2, but when I had agro I used /s 3. No predator and no cunning, but otherwise raid buffed. Using the weapons and gear he currently has equipped.

My exp and some numbers for you guys to chat over:
-In /s 2 he gets his ass handed to him if he gets agro. A bit harder than before because prior to the combo removal he could do some heavy self healing in /s 2. With the type of raid we did, this wasn't the end of the world. I wasn't the only one in the raid that noticed this though.
-In /s 3 he tanks decently well for ringer content. It seems fairly similar to what he was doing before the changes. No clue how he would do on tier :(
-Using /s 2 and flying kick is a fuck ton of agro. I'm not use to FDing/holt/etc. when Jauth tanks, and I've boxed several characters that put out substantially more DPS without taking agro. He was seriously generating a lot of agro. Again, I wasn't the only one that noticed. (I realize some of the named mobs cast DA... I'm not talking about those instances....)
-He was floating around 500 DPS on trash/named from behind, more like 400s from the front (but in /s 2 he gets eaten by ripostes from the front.) xaltec and madelin were more in the range of 900-1050 and 750-100 respectively. (They very much out gear and out tome Gegen, but everyone was boxing dudes so really precise numbers are going to be tough...)

I don't have any parses from before to draw any conclusions, but overall it seemed not a bad. I think Gegen would have ended up with substantially less DPS due to needing to FD more often if a ringer SK wasn't the tank. Honestly, I'm not sure if he would have been able to pull agro using the attack combo considering how much agro jauth was putting out.

I'd like more time to play with the endurance portion of the changes and the other /s, but it feels like I would have lost quite a bit of DPS trying to save up stamina by not using flying kick, so that I could burn later. It is nice to not be able to go to zero stamina because on the rare times you need to jump, you still can. (I don't think any single mob lived much longer than 30 seconds to check out the DPS boost.)

Over all it wasn't a bad experience and felt very similar to playing the monk prior to the combo system. Mash flying kick every pop. I'll try to play him some more to get a better handle on how the changes feel.
 
Hey I don't mind people posting strong opinions or being against things. I tend to find such input contains some of the best things to ponder, even when you disagree. After all, if you can't defend your stance in the face of questions, perhaps it isn't right.

But rants about how staff is out to make peoples' lives miserable with absolutely nothing useful to contribute in them I find annoying. C'mon folks, you're better than that. Have a suggestion or gripe? Great, make it - we try to consider as much input as possible, even when we don't respond. But simply saying how much things suck doesn't really help anyone.

Finally, just a personal note, because this whole topic just gets me thinking. I dev for this game because I enjoy it, and because I like the folks who play it. Not once in the now couple years I've been doing this have I said, or heard anyone say "man I can't wait to make this person's life miserable with this change." We're trying our best to make a compelling, entertaining game. Do we fail sometimes? Yep, and for a lot of reasons. But please understand that "to make people unhappy" does not once appear on that list. I swear it.
 
I generally like where monk is atm, the 30s extra damage does A LOT, the str/dex requiring the shm buffs to be truly effective is annoying b/c of the limited buff slots, but is workable and IS working. I don't aux from the front too much, but when I do, its cool, it reduces damage. What I still don't understand is why the monk bonus effects require you to have >= 40% endurance, and yet only take <=20% to perform, making the 0-20% of my endurance bar effectively non-existant, there is literally no ways for me to use my endurance bar from 0-20%, monks effectively have 80% of their actual endurance bar.
 
I also have a few questions about the actual mechanics of the after 30s bonus damage, such as do I have to have my auto attack on for 30s or is it 30s of me being counted in combat and if i fd to lower aggro but stand back up before it completely resets does this restart the 30s or does it stop when i'm completely off the aggro list?
 
Tevinter said:
Conceptually, this system is pretty good but just needs a little tuning in terms of gear itemization.
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As a thought for maybe improving the new life for monks, maybe some specialized gear drops catering to post-change monk system could be added in. I'd recommend Ethereal Dojo because ... 1) obvious for monks 2) the zone could use some polish/finishing.
 
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