Tradeskill Armor

[robopirateninja]

Uhm . . .
I have no doubt you can think of "good reasons" (from a radier's perspective, of course) why your level of armor for a new member is justified. But, sorry, it's still no argument to lower the power of TS armor, which is a different category of armor altogether, which helps non-raiding players who work hard at farming plat, and which is the end of the line for these players, not the beginning as in the case of raiders. LOL; No, they should have access to TRADESKILL LEVEL gear--and that's EXACTLY what they get with Deepmetal.

Nope. If this was the case this thread wouldn't be needed, as it is the TS gear is a viable replacement for too much raid content's drops.

If that happens to overlap the first 3 levels of raid gear, so what! It's a different category of armor targeted to a different type of player. I just don't know why you cannot understand that.

syduck:

What? Are you speaking of the non-raiding player who coordinates groups of people each day in order to to farm enough plat after a few weeks to afford one piece of armor? How is that "mindless clicking in a tunnel"? Or are you just confused on this point? And please, the strategy of raiding usually comes down to the strategy of one or two guild leaders/officiers, not that of all players in the guild or even in the raid. I've been in a raiding guild. The "non-thinking" members of the guild (and there are a lot of non-thinking high-end guild members--beleive me, I have been in groups with them) are simply mashing buttons and yet they still somehow deserve very nice armor.

No, I'm speaking of tradeskillers, who by and large sit in one spot and click a button farming materials or repeating combines. The fact that some peopel farm money slowly doesn't make tradeskill gear more balanced. As for the second part, just no. If people fuck up, you die, especially in an 18 man raid setting. If you wipe farming plat you lost 10% of your profit while you rebuff and run back, if you fail on a raid mob nobody gets anything.

Wow, how could anyone be this ignorant? It's not always a matter of not wanting to or not enjoying raiding. Some of us are casual players because we are married with kids, jobs and other commitments, and we don't have the luxury of doing nothing other than sitting in mom and dad's basement eating pizza with pimple-infested mouths and and playing computer games for hours at a time. At least in my case, I have very specific days or evenings that I can and cannot be online. Raiding guilds typically require a commitment to at least three nights a week, at a specific start time, with an open-ended end time. If someone with RL commitments cannot make those specific times, he's out. And, as I mentioned before, raiding guilds are not looking to recruit certain classes that require only one or two to complete a guild. A person who spends the same amount of time in game as other raiding players may still not be able to raid because the time he is online is outside the parameters of the times guilds typically raid. There are all kinds of reasons someone might not be able to raid even if they would like to raid.

You seem really angry about something. You choose to prioritize whatever you do in your time, over SoD. That's fine, more power to you. I admit I probably spend too much time playing. If you don't have the time to play a game where time invested is pretty important to your progress maybe you would enjoy Tetris or something on the limited days you have to enjoy playing video games.

 

[moghedancarns]

It is not like I worked my character up through most of the tiers to know what I am talking about.

You joined a guild that was already doing the content that picked you up and carried you along. On the ride, things fell in your lap. You never worked your way through crap.

 

[Spiritplx]

You joined a guild that was already doing the content that picked you up and carried you along. On the ride, things fell in your lap. You never worked your way through crap.

Fusion was still doing DHK/SK/Misery when I joined. I even raided DFS with them. So please don't post shit when you have NO clue what you are talking about. I also said most tiers.

Sorry the guilds I join know what they are doing and progress faster than yours.

Edit: I forgot to mention that Fusion's progression was enhanced by overpowered tradeskill items.

 

[robopirateninja]

Seriously, despite his short time on the server Felyn is probably one of the few people who has fought just about every mob in every zone, the only exceptions being whatever back content we can't kill that Steel hasn't farmed to gear him up. He was with Fusion for a substantial part of our progression which was from the ground up and included almost every "new" zone in the raid progression, PoN, Rust, PoW, as well as all of the old favorites up to and including everything in IP but Farg. A lot of people in upper tier guilds have never done those newer encounters, or never did them in tier-appropriate gear.

He's in a unique position to know what he's talking about.

 

[ryutakin]

Having been the test monkey for PoN pretty much fusion has a leg up on a lot of progression for the know how

 

[lynnettell]

Well, as a tradeskiller, I can see both sides. I can agree that some "tweaks" might be on order, and am just sincerely hoping it is "tweaks", and not the nerf bat from hell coming out.

I am one of those who spend a lot of time TSing, always have, due to RL, and the fact I refuse to park my ass for 6-8 hours to raid. Been there, done that, not doing it again. I am sick & twisted enough to *most* times find it relaxing. I can get up & grab a beer & not worry about anyone dying... just getting pissed because I'm still standing at the forge. As stated, I see both sides, yet I truly hope the changes are for balancing, and not just to make TS stuff as not a viable option to raiding Tier 1/2, or even having to do Tmaps over & over.

People play for different reasons, and I'd hate to see TS items *underpowered* to the point that the non raiders aren't even well equipped enough for decent exp groups.

It's already been established, In This Thread, that the price for a full set of tradeskill armor with double augs has actually gone down - and that's not even resales, that's from original creators.

But, but, I haven't even started dropping the price of DM armor yet, like I did most of the rest of the ores! /em runs away very fast.

 

[Enlityn3]

Aren't you guys the ones who told the lower end guild they didn't know wtf they were talking about when they asked for a change in the respawn timers and then went and asked the staff to shorten the respawns when it affected you? These guys know their shit.

 

[Spiritplx]

Aren't you guys the ones who told the lower end guild they didn't know wtf they were talking about when they asked for a change in the respawn timers and then went and asked the staff to shorten the respawns when it affected you? These guys know their shit.

The respawn timer change went in before I started raiding, so.....nope! I haven't done much research, but I doubt any raiding guild would want the respawn timer changed to longer than what it was, at any tier.

 

[Dllshockk]

Don't fix what isn't broken. Just because you raid doesn't mean you don't use TS gear. Even Fighez has a shadowsilk piece on he has raided for quite a long time. My druid has full shadowsilk and wouldn't even have 4,000 mana if it wasn't for a few raid items I looted. How is that overpowered? How much mana SHOULD he have for having 50 AA's? Lower tier guilds would suffer too much, and it's hard enough getting 18 people to a raid.

-Fighez

 

[Grailoch]

Not knowing exactly what is planned, I won't comment much. But I hope to still get some good TS gear for the slots I am lacking in with dropped gear.

Hopefully it is still worth the 1000s of plat a piece that they cost.

 

[Spiritplx]

Don't fix what isn't broken. Just because you raid doesn't mean you don't use TS gear. Even Fighez has a shadowsilk piece on he has raided for quite a long time.

Fig, you kind of prove my point seeing as you and other Fusion members still use SS pieces and you are doing Lower Thaz. It fills in slots all the way up to Valor A and even some beyond that. That right there is a good enough reason to lower the power level.

 

[shebearcub]

Unless a guild commits to staying in a place untill each member gets what they can from each level they pass through, people will stlil have tradeskill peices - not cuz it's good enough to match the guilds tiered gear, but because there isn't any other choice.

 

[robopirateninja]

Not only that fig, none of the pieces on your druid are augged at all. You could get 240 more mana just by double augging the few pieces of SS you're already wearing, and replacing some of Daloon's raid drops with double-augged SS would yield more mana as well.

 

[Dllshockk]

Fig, you kind of prove my point seeing as you and other Fusion members still use SS pieces and you are doing Lower Thaz. It fills in slots all the way up to Valor A and even some beyond that. That right there is a good enough reason to lower the power level.

I never passed on a item because my SS piece was a better item, it's just that all the cloaks that have dropped go to others/alts/people who quit. There are items from PoAir, let alone Thaz, that yield better stats than my Shadowsilk cloak. Should I use a worse item than SS this whole time instead? I don't think so.

Not only that fig, none of the pieces on your druid are augged at all. You could get 240 more mana just by double augging the few pieces of SS you're already wearing, and replacing some of Daloon's raid drops with double-augged SS would yield more mana as well.

So it'll cost me 10,000 pp and I still wouldn't even be 5k mana on the druid alt, yet it takes merely 3 weeks to get our new cleric 6k+ mana.

-Fighez

 

[Tyvec-a-tron]

Fusion was still doing DHK/SK/Misery when I joined. I even raided DFS with them. So please don't post shit when you have NO clue what you are talking about.

Maybe they were still in SK and DHK gearing alts, that's about it. This whole issue is funny coming from you considering how you skipped right over all the low end content, yet you're qualified to speak to how easy it is to bypass by spending 20k in gear.

This gear isn't really overpowered for tradeable gear. There is better stuff out there, so the point must be that it's too easy and cheap to attain. I can't imagine why, though. You have to spend your ass off just to get to 5k mana and ~tier 3.There was a post a few months back about the crowding of lower tier content, and the responses from all the higher end players on the server were:

"We all went through it, deal with it."
"Buy tradeskill gear and get into tier 3 with it."

Since then, there has been a significant push to change raid content because the high end is too crowded, and now this to change the tradeskilled gear. It's funny how things change when it affects you (or when it involves slowing down startup guilds), huh.

Grizabella said it nicely. If there isn't sufficient gear to fill all the inventory spots, why degrade the spots that can't be easily picked up? People in mid to high tiers aren't in SS because they want to be- they don't have all that much choice.

 

[Spiritplx]

Maybe they were still in SK and DHK gearing alts, that's about it. This whole issue is funny coming from you considering how you skipped right over all the low end content, yet you're qualified to speak to how easy it is to bypass by spending 20k in gear.

This gear isn't really overpowered for tradeable gear. There is better stuff out there, so the point must be that it's too easy and cheap to attain. I can't imagine why, though. You have to spend your ass off just to get to 5k mana and ~tier 3.There was a post a few months back about the crowding of lower tier content, and the responses from all the higher end players on the server were:

"We all went through it, deal with it."
"Buy tradeskill gear and get into tier 3 with it."

Since then, there has been a significant push to change raid content because the high end is too crowded, and now this to change the tradeskilled gear. It's funny how things change when it affects you (or when it involves slowing down startup guilds), huh.

Grizabella said it nicely. If there isn't sufficient gear to fill all the inventory spots, why degrade the spots that can't be easily picked up? People in mid to high tiers aren't in SS because they want to be- they don't have all that much choice.

No, we were definitely gearing mains in the zones I said. The furthest they were at during that time was Torment/Air, but we still did those for mains all the time too. Not sure who your toon is, so I am not sure why you are acting like you know what you are talking about, but whatever. Sorry I skipped Lenny and Plaguefang. QQ

GUESS WHAT, I am not whining about how crowded anything is or how we cannot find content (because the only reason we don't do content at our tier is because we decide not to, not because it is not up). Really not sure why this keeps being brought back up when the change of tradeskill armor DOES NOT affect my raiding status at all, and slowing down other guilds...not worried at all about that. I wasn't a person who said "deal with it" or "get tradeskill gear" so don't even use that argument.

Raid content is SUPPOSED to be better than dropable gear. It takes a lot more time to advance in content than it does having a single person or a 2boxer to farm platinum for gear (guess what? I do both, so I think I am qualified to say which one is more time consuming).

Gear that you can get solo shouldn't be as good as gear that takes 6-18 people to get. I am the only crazy person to see that TS armor was overpowered, and then I sweet talked the devs into changing it. I am glad I have this much say in every issue since this is like the second post I have made where a change might occur, as opposed to the 20 I have made and seen nothing.

Fig,

I cannot speak for you, so I am not sure if you never passed on ANY loot because SS was simply better, but it really is hard for me to believe that you are still using SS in Lower Thaz and did not skip an item or two.

 

[Tyvec-a-tron]

No, we were definitely gearing mains in the zones I said. The furthest they were at during that time was Torment/Air, but we still did those for mains all the time too. Not sure who your toon is, so I am not sure why you are acting like you know what you are talking about, but whatever. Sorry I skipped Lenny and Plaguefang. QQ

GUESS WHAT, I am not whining about how crowded anything is or how we cannot find content (because the only reason we don't do content at our tier is because we decide not to, not because it is not up). Really not sure why this keeps being brought back up when the change of tradeskill armor DOES NOT affect my raiding status at all, and slowing down other guilds...not worried at all about that. I wasn't a person who said "deal with it" or "get tradeskill gear" so don't even use that argument.

Raid content is SUPPOSED to be better than dropable gear. It takes a lot more time to advance in content than it does having a single person or a 2boxer to farm platinum for gear (guess what? I do both, so I think I am qualified to say which one is more time consuming).

Gear that you can get solo shouldn't be as good as gear that takes 6-18 people to get. I am the only crazy person to see that TS armor was overpowered, and then I sweet talked the devs into changing it. I am glad I have this much say in every issue since this is like the second post I have made where a change might occur, as opposed to the 20 I have made and seen nothing.

Fig,

I cannot speak for you, so I am not sure if you never passed on ANY loot because SS was simply better, but it really is hard for me to believe that you are still using SS in Lower Thaz and did not skip an item or two.

If anything, you joined Fusion when they were on Tier 4. You must've joined in July or so? Fusion had been done camping Rymaz for months by that point, and he's Tier 3ish and the hardest thing in the zone. That would pretty much leave you inexperienced on pre-tier raiding through tier 2, which is the spot that TS armor is most prevalent. I mean, when is the last time you 18-manned Flux in SK or Yinny?

It's nice now that it won't affect you, eh. Since you pretty much went from all droppable gear to tier 4, you'd be hard pressed to convince me that you're an expert on anything regarding this gear's usage aside from how long into raid tiers it's worn. You say raid gear is supposed to be inherently better than droppable gear, yet there is clearly droppable gear that could be worn well into some of the higher end zones. Of course, these piece are more expensive and more rare than DM and SS and the like, but where is that line drawn? When is it ok to wear one droppable piece into IP and not another?

Your OP references those items making lower tier stuff worthless. It doesn't obsolete them, it just gives other options for people who have the resources to acquire them. I won't even touch on your point about bypassing content except to say that there are far more effective (and utilized) tactics for getting a boost which many guilds (including Fusion) have employed. Really though, what about the fact that SS is on higher tiered characters is detrimental to the server?

Not to mention said nerfs will not just effect the raiding characters who use it, but the even larger pool of non-raiders who it would be detrimental towards syduck:.

 

[Spiritplx]

If anything, you joined Fusion when they were on Tier 4. You must've joined in July or so? Fusion had been done camping Rymaz for months by that point, and he's Tier 3ish and the hardest thing in the zone. That would pretty much leave you inexperienced on pre-tier raiding through tier 2, which is the spot that TS armor is most prevalent. I mean, when is the last time you 18-manned Flux in SK or Yinny?

It's nice now that it won't affect you, eh. Since you pretty much went from all droppable gear to tier 4, you'd be hard pressed to convince me that you're an expert on anything regarding this gear's usage aside from how long into raid tiers it's worn. You say raid gear is supposed to be inherently better than droppable gear, yet there is clearly droppable gear that could be worn well into some of the higher end zones. Of course, these piece are more expensive and more rare than DM and SS and the like, but where is that line drawn? When is it ok to wear one droppable piece into IP and not another?

Your OP references those items making lower tier stuff worthless. It doesn't obsolete them, it just gives other options for people who have the resources to acquire them. I won't even touch on your point about bypassing content except to say that there are far more effective (and utilized) tactics for getting a boost which many guilds (including Fusion) have employed. Really though, what about the fact that SS is on higher tiered characters is detrimental to the server?

Not to mention said nerfs will not just effect the raiding characters who use it, but the even larger pool of non-raiders who it would be detrimental towards syduck:.

I am truly sorry I did not go through all of the content in order. I am also sorry that people cannot see what balancing is and that people only care about how they are affected as an individual. I am honestly tired of all of the whining. I may not have raided through all of the content from Tier 0 to Tier 10, but I have done encounters in ALL of those tiers. Not sure who you are, but I am sure I have WAY more raiding experience than you, so yes, my opinion is pretty sound when it comes to different content. You all can act like you know what you are talking about all you want, but NONE of you have said WHY it shouldn't be changed other than "we want nice dropable gear". The devs aren't going to keep it as is if you have NO argument for keeping it that way. None of you even suggested alternative ways to change it, leaving the devs to use only the changes they were thinking of.

Instead of suggestions, this whole thread is just full of bitching. Well, grats you all on doing nothing to protect your precious TS armor and doing the exact opposite. The devs have no where else to turn to except for what they think up. gg

 

[Skorge]

The one thing I like about SoD is it is far different from Game Live. SoD has its own special rules and the people that run it have the option to do anything to the game they like.

The one reason why I am even here is because I am a casual gamer who enjoys MMORPG's. I played Game Live back in '99 and '00 and got burnt out and went to DAOC for a year or so. I then took a break for a bit and got into Final Fantasy for a couple of months. Next I tried out WoW and really hated it and the community (it was TOO easy). Then I tried out EQ2 and maxed my level out as well as TS class out in a little over a month (at the time I had a month off) and got burnt out and quit (the end game content was boring back then). Finally I tried out LOTRO - made level 50 and completed all epic quests, etc. LOTRO was an excellent game up till level 35 or so then it just sucked.

Going back to the reason why I am playing here is because it's like playing Game only it gives off a feel that anybody can play, even casual gamers like myself. I am married, have a job, and other hobbies, and only end up playing maybe 1-2 hours a day and more on weekends.

I work my ass off trying to save up enough plat for any armor I can get. I just now started being able to buy DM, at level 60. I am level 62 now with three pieces of DM armor and only 800 plat on both of my characters. My Ogre (keep in mind OGRE) warrior has about 3900 hps unbuffed now. I don't feel like that is too powerful when you see other warriors my level with like 5k+ hps. Getting a hold of one piece of DM/SS armor is a BIG achievement for somebody like me who only plays casually. It makes us feel like we "fit" into the community because a good chunk of the SoD is level 65 raiders.

Everytime I join a group my shaman and warrior feels out of place, because everyone's gear is so powerful my toons look like level 10's next to them. I grouped with a level 65 cleric a couple of days ago who had 5.3k mana. My shaman only has 2500 mana, lol.

That is why it is important for you to NOT nerf the TS armor - because it gives us casual players a chance to feel like we "fit" into the community. It gives us something to look forward to. Now, if you go and nerf it then you really diminish the attitude of the casual player and end up seperating the server from this: those who have the time to raid and get uber gear and those who don't.

Right now I feel the TS armor keeps the server together and provides those who don't have enough time to raid with a feeling like they can compete with the raiders some what, but we casual players ultimately know that the raiders will always have the true edge, as they dedicate more time to the game - time we just do NOT have.

Please don't make any nerfs to the only decent armor us casual players will ever achieve.

 

[Syalara]

It dosent matter what armor you wear, fitting into the community is up to the player, not the gear. Comparing yourself to 65 raiders who are AA'd and geared is pointless. There are clerics w/ over 8k mana and warriors with over 8k hps unbuffed, wizards have 1200 more hps then your warrior unbuffed...sounds like a big deal but...thiis effects you how?

BTW, 3 pieces of DM at 62 isnt bad at all. There will always be a gulf between raiders and non raiders, as there should be. The issue w/ alot of the TS'd items is they lessen that gulf and can be comparable to many raid items within the first few tiers, diminishing the value of raiding said tiers. Thats unfair to those who do/can devote the time to excelling in the game, and frankly, a lil unfair to the folks who spent many hours designing and implementing lower end raid content.

I am sorry, but if you feel out of place thats an issue for you to deal with, and not for Tradeskilled armor to compensate for.

I have little to no sympathy for anyone crying about the upcoming changes to TS'd items for one simple reason. Like it or not, they are overpowered for the effort required to obtain them. It dosent matter what the guy next to you is wearing, it dosent matter if raid drops are more powerful, and it dosent matter if the attitudes of a few simple minded people may change because of the upcoming alterations.

I have seen tons of changes come down the pipe in my time here and have bitched about several of em, but at the end of the day all the changes, even ones I still dont like or agree with, have been done for the overall benefit of the game. Thats why I play SoD.

Please don't make any nerfs to the only decent armor us casual players will ever achieve.

I suggest you get more of a clue as to the caliber of items that are droppable before you make a remark like the one above. And for the love of god dont try to tell me casual players cant farm cash.