Tradeskill Armor
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lynnettell
Dalayan Elder
Okay, this stuff isn't supposed to take you to Tier 5 or anything. Most of the DM questions I get either on if I can make it, or do I have ore for sale are from 55 to recently 65 folks. Let's take a look at one Tier 3 mob, King Rymaz.
Stormbreaker Plate
MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO DROP
Slot: CHEST
AC: 58
STR: +10 STA: +25 WIS: +5 INT: +5 HP: +100 MANA: +50
SVFIRE: +10 SVDISEASE: +10 SVCOLD: +10 SVMAGIC: +10 SVPOISON: +10
Required Level of 50.
WT: 22.5 Size: LARGE
Class: WAR CLR PAL SHD BRD
Race: ALL
Now, the Deepmetal alternative.
Deepmetal Platemail Breastplate
MAGIC ITEM
Slot: CHEST
AC: 38
This item is made with tradeskills.
STR: 7 STA: 7 AGI: 7 DEX: 7 CHA: 7 HP: 85 MANA: 85
SV Magic: 10
Recommended Level: 45
WT: 25 Size: LARGE
Class: WAR CLR PAL SHD BRD
Race: ALL
Slot 1, type2: empty
Slot 2, type2: empty
Hrm, yeah, I can get to 48 AC with double augs. Not even close to the 58 AC. But I'm still lacking a ton of other stats.
Now, a Tier 2 mob, AWT.
Wind-fused Visor
MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO DROP
Slot: FACE
AC: 20
STR: +10 DEX: +10 HP: +90 SV MAGIC: +15
Aggression: +2%
Recommended level of 60.
WT: 2.5
Size: SMALL
Class: WAR PAL SHD
Race: ALL
Deepmetal alternative
Deepmetal Platemail Visor
MAGIC ITEM
Slot: FACE
AC: 17
This item is made with tradeskills.
STR: 3 STA: 3 AGI: 7 DEX: 7 CHA: 5 HP: 65 MANA: 65
SV Magic: 5
Recommended Level: 45
WT: 6.7 Size: SMALL
Class: WAR CLR PAL SHD BRD
Race: ALL
Slot 1, type2: empty
Slot 2, type2: empty
Lacking AC, but I can aug that & HP to get the same... adds some CHA & STA, but the STR & SV magic is higher on the dropped item. And no aggression mod on DM.
That's a Tier 2 mob. Deepmetal is used to fill in slots until you hit... Tier 2 or 3, I guess!
Honestly, DM is not overpowered, even with the double aug slots. It's a fill in armor to use until you start raiding and getting upgrades. Granted, Tier 1 doesn't have many upgrades over DM, but hey, very few folks that are starting Tier 1 can afford a full suit of DM & full EQ augs. Or for someone who doesn't raid, but wants decent gear for exp, maps, whatever.
Point out valid reasons (other than, "But the BP doesn't drop that much!") why DM needs changed. The stats are based on what Tier mobs drop comparable items (obviously, Tier 2 & up), not on a drop rate or anything else. The items, IMHO, are in game for those folks who don't get the drop, or are working up to getting to the point of killing the mob.
Stormbreaker Plate
MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO DROP
Slot: CHEST
AC: 58
STR: +10 STA: +25 WIS: +5 INT: +5 HP: +100 MANA: +50
SVFIRE: +10 SVDISEASE: +10 SVCOLD: +10 SVMAGIC: +10 SVPOISON: +10
Required Level of 50.
WT: 22.5 Size: LARGE
Class: WAR CLR PAL SHD BRD
Race: ALL
Now, the Deepmetal alternative.
Deepmetal Platemail Breastplate
MAGIC ITEM
Slot: CHEST
AC: 38
This item is made with tradeskills.
STR: 7 STA: 7 AGI: 7 DEX: 7 CHA: 7 HP: 85 MANA: 85
SV Magic: 10
Recommended Level: 45
WT: 25 Size: LARGE
Class: WAR CLR PAL SHD BRD
Race: ALL
Slot 1, type2: empty
Slot 2, type2: empty
Hrm, yeah, I can get to 48 AC with double augs. Not even close to the 58 AC. But I'm still lacking a ton of other stats.
Now, a Tier 2 mob, AWT.
Wind-fused Visor
MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO DROP
Slot: FACE
AC: 20
STR: +10 DEX: +10 HP: +90 SV MAGIC: +15
Aggression: +2%
Recommended level of 60.
WT: 2.5
Size: SMALL
Class: WAR PAL SHD
Race: ALL
Deepmetal alternative
Deepmetal Platemail Visor
MAGIC ITEM
Slot: FACE
AC: 17
This item is made with tradeskills.
STR: 3 STA: 3 AGI: 7 DEX: 7 CHA: 5 HP: 65 MANA: 65
SV Magic: 5
Recommended Level: 45
WT: 6.7 Size: SMALL
Class: WAR CLR PAL SHD BRD
Race: ALL
Slot 1, type2: empty
Slot 2, type2: empty
Lacking AC, but I can aug that & HP to get the same... adds some CHA & STA, but the STR & SV magic is higher on the dropped item. And no aggression mod on DM.
That's a Tier 2 mob. Deepmetal is used to fill in slots until you hit... Tier 2 or 3, I guess!
Honestly, DM is not overpowered, even with the double aug slots. It's a fill in armor to use until you start raiding and getting upgrades. Granted, Tier 1 doesn't have many upgrades over DM, but hey, very few folks that are starting Tier 1 can afford a full suit of DM & full EQ augs. Or for someone who doesn't raid, but wants decent gear for exp, maps, whatever.
Point out valid reasons (other than, "But the BP doesn't drop that much!") why DM needs changed. The stats are based on what Tier mobs drop comparable items (obviously, Tier 2 & up), not on a drop rate or anything else. The items, IMHO, are in game for those folks who don't get the drop, or are working up to getting to the point of killing the mob.
lynnettell
Dalayan Elder
Moderate map drop (mod maps are what, 400pp?)
Sisera's Darkmesh Wristguard
MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO DROP
Slot: WRIST
AC: 13
Effect: Rune II (Combat)
STR: +17 DEX: +7 WIS: +4 INT: +4 HP: +60 MANA: +60
Recommended Level of 50.
WT: 1.1 Size: SMALL
Class: WAR CLR PAL SHD BRD
Race: ALL
Deepmetal bracer (2kppish)
Deepmetal Platemail Bracer
MAGIC ITEM
Slot: WRIST
AC: 18
This item is made with tradeskills.
STR: 2 STA: 2 AGI: 5 DEX: 5 CHA: 2 WIS: 4 INT: 4 HP: 60 MANA: 60
SV Magic: 5
Recommended Level: 45
WT: 6 Size: SMALL
Class: WAR CLR PAL SHD BRD
Race: ALL
Slot 1, type2: empty
Slot 2, type2: empty
Yep, DM is better. But that's a MOD map, easily done by one good group. And a heck of a lot cheaper than buying deepmetal.
Sisera's Darkmesh Wristguard
MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO DROP
Slot: WRIST
AC: 13
Effect: Rune II (Combat)
STR: +17 DEX: +7 WIS: +4 INT: +4 HP: +60 MANA: +60
Recommended Level of 50.
WT: 1.1 Size: SMALL
Class: WAR CLR PAL SHD BRD
Race: ALL
Deepmetal bracer (2kppish)
Deepmetal Platemail Bracer
MAGIC ITEM
Slot: WRIST
AC: 18
This item is made with tradeskills.
STR: 2 STA: 2 AGI: 5 DEX: 5 CHA: 2 WIS: 4 INT: 4 HP: 60 MANA: 60
SV Magic: 5
Recommended Level: 45
WT: 6 Size: SMALL
Class: WAR CLR PAL SHD BRD
Race: ALL
Slot 1, type2: empty
Slot 2, type2: empty
Yep, DM is better. But that's a MOD map, easily done by one good group. And a heck of a lot cheaper than buying deepmetal.
lynnettell said:
Also keep in mind that the King's BP is very very VERY rare, in fact most warriors or tanking classes may never see it unless their guild farms Rymaz for 6 months to a year with the recent spawn changes, whereas DM armor is much easily and readily available. You also picked a very unique mob in such a way that his gear was intended to have a special BP drop.
As for AWT, in my recent encounters of him, unless you are overly tier geared, a general Tier 2 geared guild would have a lot of trouble with AWT. I think he's actually a lot harder than people give him credit for. But even so a double AC aug'd DM visor is still more raw AC for a pure tank than the AWT visor, the perk to picking the AWT visor over DM is the +Aggression
If you were to compare most or a complete full set of DM gear to much of the gear that drops in SK, DHK, DFS, even as high as Misery, or even some of the stuff in Storm's Eye there may be those one or two pieces where you'd take it over DM, but for the most part people don't bother. Take the Quicksilver Vambraces, I've yet to see anyone want them over a double aug'd DM set of arms, especially the hybrid classes.
Code:
Quicksilver Plate Vambraces
MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO DROP
Slot: ARMS
AC: 25
DEX: +15 AGI: +15 HP: +75
WT: 3.5
Size: LARGE
Class: WAR PAL SHD BRD
Race: ALL
Slot 1, type2
Code:
Deepmetal Platemail Vambraces
From SoDWiki
[MAGIC ITEM]
Slot: ARMS
AC: 23
STA: 7 AGI: 7 DEX: 7 CHA: 3 HP: 65 MANA: 65
SV Magic: 7
WT: 12.7 Size: MEDIUM
Class: WAR CLR PAL SHD BRD
Race: ALL
Slot 1, type2
Slot 2, type2I think for every individual item example you find that may look reasonable, you'd also find, maybe two or more unbalanced items in favor of DM.
lynnettell
Dalayan Elder
I guess my thought is that Deepmetal is around for two reasons.
1. For those folks who don't chose to be in a high end raiding guild, for whatever reason. They prefer casual raiding, or no raiding. It's good gear, though expensive.
2. For those folks who are just starting to progress in a raiding guild. It's a stop gap measure until they get the Tier 3+ upgrades.
At an average of 2k per piece, and 13 pieces, that's 26k pp. Now, add on 26 augments if you find a bargain rate of 200pp each. That's another 5.2k. 31.2k. How many folks that are recently level 65, are not alts, etc., have managed to save that kind of money? Few. Most DM is bought as folks get the money. A BP here, then a week or so later, a bracer, etc. At 13 pieces, at one piece a week... that's three months to get a full suit.
While yeah, it's over powered if you are level 65 with 300+ AA's and are buying it for your level 45 twink, for the "average" new player, it's an expensive way to get good gear.
1. For those folks who don't chose to be in a high end raiding guild, for whatever reason. They prefer casual raiding, or no raiding. It's good gear, though expensive.
2. For those folks who are just starting to progress in a raiding guild. It's a stop gap measure until they get the Tier 3+ upgrades.
At an average of 2k per piece, and 13 pieces, that's 26k pp. Now, add on 26 augments if you find a bargain rate of 200pp each. That's another 5.2k. 31.2k. How many folks that are recently level 65, are not alts, etc., have managed to save that kind of money? Few. Most DM is bought as folks get the money. A BP here, then a week or so later, a bracer, etc. At 13 pieces, at one piece a week... that's three months to get a full suit.
While yeah, it's over powered if you are level 65 with 300+ AA's and are buying it for your level 45 twink, for the "average" new player, it's an expensive way to get good gear.
Tempus
Staff Emeritus
lynnettell said:
There is no right to have a full suit of DM by the time you are 65, and really this has no bearing on wether the armor needs balancing or not. It is and will still be Raid Level armor that you can buy and customize with 2 augment slots. It just won't be as high up the raiding tiers as it is currently. Of course you can find a few ultra rare items that are above the power of the rest of the loot on any tier, but really we are talking about the bulk of the item drops here.
1. This is still true even with some tweaking.
2. This is still true even with some tweaking.
lynnettell
Dalayan Elder
If you do "tweak", then I hope the mining rate of < 2% (I'll have to ask Perkins, he parsed it, but IIRC correctly it was 1.7%), the drop rate on the other items, etc., is looked at. Because it's worth the money now, IMHO, "tweak" it, and it won't be worth it.
And I never said folks were getting full suits at level 65. That's when *most* start purchasing, if they aren't alts/twinks. I said that it would take three months *at* 65 to get a full suit.
And I never said folks were getting full suits at level 65. That's when *most* start purchasing, if they aren't alts/twinks. I said that it would take three months *at* 65 to get a full suit.
panthernoswar
Dalayan Beginner
So, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the stats on SS atleast, possibly imphide will be lowered or moved around so they aren't quite as good as they used to be? And if so, will the cost on Liquid Platinum be changed as well to reflect the drop in prices per peice and quanity sold aswell, or will ointments stay at ~900plat per attempt buying stuff at server standards?
robopirateninja
Staff Emeritus
These items are already too good for the difficulty in getting them, it would seem counterproductive to make them easier to get.
panthernoswar
Dalayan Beginner
Umm, read my post and you would see I said if stats were lowered or moved around so that even less people would want them. I didn't say anything about keep stats the exact same and lower price.
Tempus
Staff Emeritus
lynnettell said:
You have no idea what tweaks are being done. Unless you have a crystal ball and can see the future. Do you? I will say this, "tweak"ing it could make it more attractive to non-tank classes and could possible make it so that the chain stats do not mirrior the plate stats so that the chain is more viable and useful.
Even with some changes the armor will still be in a class of its own with 2 augment slots and being droppable. They will still be worth the money.
panthernoswar said:
Probably not, things are not getting "OMG NERFED", you would know this if you bothered to read any of my previous posts. Some items may actually improve based on which class you play.
robopirateninja
Staff Emeritus
panthernoswar said:
Umm, read my post and see that if the items are already too good for how easy it is to get them and they need to be reduced in strength, reducing the difficulty in obtaining them (ie the cost/droprate of materials) would make them overpowered again.
Spiritplx
Dalayan Elder
I am starting to think that my post made these changes out to look bad. I think the intended changes sound like a good idea. I am excited to see how the changes affect the armor's power level. Keeping the second aug slot and adjusting the other stats seems like a better idea than my original.
syduck:I am not one for the nerf....
With that said ... If you guys remove 2 aug slot that 6k i saved up spent hours and hours of play time to have it just go poof?
Let say you guys nerf it (Bad idea) Can it be done like live Were the item from date of nerf is effected not anything before
Over all tho there better things to be fixed and looked over and twinked then attacking tradeskills
With that said ... If you guys remove 2 aug slot that 6k i saved up spent hours and hours of play time to have it just go poof?
Let say you guys nerf it (Bad idea) Can it be done like live Were the item from date of nerf is effected not anything before
Over all tho there better things to be fixed and looked over and twinked then attacking tradeskills
Spiritplx
Dalayan Elder
bendover said:
It is really best to read over all the posts before just reading half of the first post and then start typing. The staff has said that they will NOT remove a second aug slot, and instead will re-balance the stats already on the armor. They want to keep the 2 aug slots for more customization, but will take off some of the mana/hp/ac to add more stats (ie, dex/str/cha/sta/agi). Sure it may lose some of it's potency, but people are freaking out because every time something gets changed people just cry "NERF!". It isn't like some item nerfs where the item just loses stats and that's it...these items will get other stats added to them if they have other stats reduced.
Also, Live did not have many "pre-nerf" items, and when they did, they were mostly from the first expansion or maybe in kunark.
We all spend a lot of time playing this game, farming pp for items is common practice, so when things are changed, do not think they are directly attacking you.
moghedancarns
Dalayan Beginner
You are absolutely correct. It is absolutely farting silly for a bunch of Shadow Silk Wearers to get all miffed just because the INT, CHA, and Mana are being reduced. I mean, think of all the sweet STR, DEX, and WIS we will be getting! Maybe some awesome Stamina! If I triple my current stamina, I can totally not live through even one more hit, the return is so low. I am totally main tanking the next raid!
Don't think of it in terms of what has any pratical effect what so ever, think of it as improving your character over all... since it will be easier to melee down your foes when you more frequently run out of mana before a fight is over. Think outside the box!
I mean, really.
Don't think of it in terms of what has any pratical effect what so ever, think of it as improving your character over all... since it will be easier to melee down your foes when you more frequently run out of mana before a fight is over. Think outside the box!
I mean, really.
Spiritplx
Dalayan Elder
moghedancarns said:
I am sure they will give casters caster stats, and tanks tank stats, but I could be wrong. The fact that you can put on 60 pure mana with augs means the item's base mana should definitely need to be dropped. And, yeah, there are times when items lose stats, and gain NOTHING. This is not one of those times. If you cannot see that tradeskill armor is currently overpowered, then you need to take a look at the mid to higher tiered raid items available. You will skip a lot of them because shadowsilk is just simply better.
Tempus
Staff Emeritus
moghedancarns said:
as·sump·tion /əˈsʌmpʃən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[uh-suhmp-shuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. something taken for granted; a supposition: a correct assumption.
2. the act of taking for granted or supposing.
3. the act of taking to or upon oneself.
4. the act of taking possession of something: the assumption of power.
5. arrogance; presumption.
6. the taking over of another's debts or obligations.
7. Ecclesiastical.
a. (often initial capital letter) the bodily taking up into heaven of the Virgin Mary.
b. (initial capital letter) a feast commemorating this, celebrated on August 15.
[Origin: 1250–1300; ME assumpcioun, assompcioun, assumsion < L assūmptiōn- (s. of assūmptiō), equiv. to assūmpt(us) taken up (ptp. of assūmere; see assume) + -iōn- -ion]
—Synonyms 1, 2. presupposition. 1. hypothesis, conjecture, guess, postulate, theory. 3. presumption. 5. effrontery, forwardness.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
assumption
noun
1. a statement that is assumed to be true and from which a conclusion can be drawn; "on the assumption that he has been injured we can infer that he will not to play" [syn: premise]
2. a hypothesis that is taken for granted; "any society is built upon certain assumptions"
3. the act of taking possession of or power over something; "his assumption of office coincided with the trouble in Cuba"; "the Nazi assumption of power in 1934"; "he acquired all the company's assets for ten million dollars and the assumption of the company's debts"
4. celebration in the Roman Catholic Church of the Virgin Mary's being taken up into heaven when her earthly life ended; corresponds to the Dormition in the Eastern Orthodox Church
5. (Christianity) the taking up of the body and soul of the Virgin Mary when her earthly life had ended
6. audacious (even arrogant) behavior that you have no right to; "he despised them for their presumptuousness" [syn: presumption]
7. the act of assuming or taking for granted; "your assumption that I would agree was unwarranted"
WordNet® 3.0, © 2006 by Princeton University.
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