Thinking about knights, and SKs in particular.

[Nuncio]

Nope.
First of all, my suggestions for improvement to knights had serious penalties for going into DPS mode. Getting aggro with that ability enabled = dead knight.
I'm all for balance.
What I'm suggesting, mostly, is that classes with more than one role be able to switch to more extreme opposites of their given roles with great penalties to their OTHER abilities.
Again, my suggestions for how that takes place may not be viable, but the underlying idea is a good one, imo.

 

[volvov2]

Sounds a lot better than Lady's Guard, that's for sure. But making it for 2handers only is going to make Paladins cry. We already have a style that is 2hander-only (supposedly our raid-tanking style, but we lose a crapload of stats and AC with it).

At least you have a tanking style. The Loathing Guard Shadowknight style uses all stamina in about 30 seconds (at best). Other than defensive we have no style worth even using when tanking ;(

 

[Rambler]

Sounds a lot better than Lady's Guard, that's for sure. But making it for 2handers only is going to make Paladins cry. We already have a style that is 2hander-only (supposedly our raid-tanking style, but we lose a crapload of stats and AC with it).

And I bet you won't have any need for that AC anymore, sugar lips.

 

[Rambler]

Sounds a lot better than Lady's Guard, that's for sure. But making it for 2handers only is going to make Paladins cry. We already have a style that is 2hander-only (supposedly our raid-tanking style, but we lose a crapload of stats and AC with it).

At least you have a tanking style. The Loathing Guard Shadowknight style uses all stamina in about 30 seconds (at best). Other than defensive we have no style worth even using when tanking ;(

Wow, really? I wasn't aware of that... that is kind of odd. Although perhaps it's like that because SK's would simply hold aggro too well to make some encounters fairly easy? Or is this just nonsense?

 

[ThunndarrNameless]

So, what you're saying is that I should make druids nuke the same as wizards since they heal worse than clerics?

<3 YES! <3

 

[sp4mm]

After playtesting pretty much all the classes, hearing SKs whine about power absolutely makes me cringe.

Oh, if only you knew what my balance-test SK had soloed...

 

[volvov2]

I just took a stopwatch, at 280 stamina, (technically over because base is 271 and i have EoT buff) with no stamina regen (sihalas gift, etc. etc.) it lasted 26 seconds before i ran out of stamina, sihalas gift (best stam conservation buff) would allow this to go on for 35% longer. So, can anyone else prove me wrong, and if so, tell me why me why mines goes down so quick?

 

[Nuncio]

After playtesting pretty much all the classes, hearing SKs whine about power absolutely makes me cringe.

Oh, if only you knew what my balance-test SK had soloed...

Some mobs are soloable by one class for particular reasons, when they arenot soloable by any other class. Happens in a few cases. That one enounter in no way shape or form is indicative of their general capability.
To further this idea. it doesnt matter WHAT a certain class can solo, it only matters what they can contribute to a group or raid.

 

[zodium]

After playtesting pretty much all the classes, hearing SKs whine about power absolutely makes me cringe.

Oh, if only you knew what my balance-test SK had soloed...

Some mobs are soloable by one class for particular reasons, when they arenot soloable by any other class. Happens in a few cases. That one enounter in no way shape or form is indicative of their general capability.
To further this idea. it doesnt matter WHAT a certain class can solo, it only matters what they can contribute to a group or raid.

He soloed WW dragons with legit equipment. It wasn't even the best of the best.

 

[Nuncio]

After playtesting pretty much all the classes, hearing SKs whine about power absolutely makes me cringe.

Oh, if only you knew what my balance-test SK had soloed...

Some mobs are soloable by one class for particular reasons, when they arenot soloable by any other class. Happens in a few cases. That one enounter in no way shape or form is indicative of their general capability.
To further this idea. it doesnt matter WHAT a certain class can solo, it only matters what they can contribute to a group or raid.

He soloed WW dragons with legit equipment. It wasn't even the best of the best.

Your point being? Read my post again. Becasue he solod dragons doesnt mean hes balanced for raids,

 

[zodium]

After playtesting pretty much all the classes, hearing SKs whine about power absolutely makes me cringe.

Oh, if only you knew what my balance-test SK had soloed...

Some mobs are soloable by one class for particular reasons, when they arenot soloable by any other class. Happens in a few cases. That one enounter in no way shape or form is indicative of their general capability.
To further this idea. it doesnt matter WHAT a certain class can solo, it only matters what they can contribute to a group or raid.

He soloed WW dragons with legit equipment. It wasn't even the best of the best.

Your point being? Read my post again. Becasue he solod dragons doesnt mean hes balanced for raids,

The simple virtue of being able to solo WW dragons will make you balanced for raids. But yes, SKs sacrifice some groupability for their intense soloing ability. What's your point? You're still useful on raids, and better tanks than paladins. You can pull or help pull, you can rampage tank with considerably fewer heals than ANY other class and you can do decent DPS with a 2H.

And also solo WW dragons. What more do you want?

 

[Nuncio]

I can see I'm not going to get anywhere with voicin my opinions about the desirability of knights on raid groups withyou two, for whatever reason.
Instead of getting in a pissig match, I'll just refer you to wizes earlier statement in this thread.

Shadowknights are more of a tough cookie... they have some existing utility, but probably need something additional for raids. I don't know what, but it's not DPS.

I'm not the onlyone who sees a shortcoming in knights raid roles.

 

[zodium]

I can see I'm not going to get anywhere with voicin my opinions about the desirability of knights on raid groups withyou two, for whatever reason.
Instead of getting in a pissig match, I'll just refer you to wizes earlier statement in this thread.

Shadowknights are more of a tough cookie... they have some existing utility, but probably need something additional for raids. I don't know what, but it's not DPS.

I'm not the onlyone who sees a shortcoming in knights raid roles.

This...isn't a pissing match, and Wiz isn't infallible. What are you trying to prove?

Copy-paste from IRC:
[20:32:48] <melwin> They're the second best pullers, the definitive rampage tanks, the best of the knight tanks and thus required for mobs that slow, decent main tanks and not too bad DPS with a 2H
[20:33:14] <melwin> They also take much less time to make really useful than a warrior does.
[20:33:31] <melwin> Oh, and their soloability is through the roof


Again: What more do you want?

 

[Nuncio]

I'm not trying to prove anything.
I'm voicing my opinion that knights could use some tools to make them more desirable in raids and groups.
You disagree. You also play a warrior. Your resistance to knight upgrades is pretty predictable.
The 'best' of the knight tanks is not only arguable, but theres only 2 knight classes. That could mean "bad" and "worse".

They also take much less time to make really useful than a warrior does.

This mattters how, in a raid setting?

Oh, and their soloability is through the roof

Again, how does this matter in group/raid settings?

 

[zodium]

I'm going to stop arguing with you now, because if you're not willing to consider all factors in balancing, you are not worth arguing with.

And for the record, me being a warrior has nothing to do with my resistance to SKs getting upgraded. I have nothing to fear from SKs because warriors are designed to be main tanks, and as such will always ultimately be the superior main tanks except in special cases like GL.

 

[Ciaran]

I've never played a SK but I have seen them in action on raids on live, they were generally one of the main tanks. You shouldn't have four of them on a raid though, you just don't need that many of them. It's the same way as you really don't need more than two enchanters.

 

[Nuncio]

I've never played a SK but I have seen them in action on raids on live, they were generally one of the main tanks..

What?

 

[volvov2]

1) this isnt live, we dont get 9k hps unbuffed
2) you gotta play it to know it

 

[miotch]

Hi i'm a necro.. my job is to twitch you..
*twitch*
*twitch*
*twitch*


Raid necro is teh win!
*twitch*

-Klawde

 

[Nuncio]

I'm going to stop arguing with you now, because if you're not willing to consider all factors in balancing, you are not worth arguing with.

And for the record, me being a warrior has nothing to do with my resistance to SKs getting upgraded. I have nothing to fear from SKs because warriors are designed to be main tanks, and as such will always ultimately be the superior main tanks except in special cases like GL.

I'm not trying to argue. I play an SK because I love the the things SKs CAN do.
I'm only making suggestions for something that would round them out a bit. I wouldnt condone anything overbalancing.