The CH thread

M

Milvang

Dalayan Beginner
Way back in the last millinium EQ introduced the concept of the complete heal spell. This is of course based on the same spell from AD&D. It seemede natural the clerics would get such a spell. To make it uneffective as a main healing spell, it was given a long casting time.

As the level cap increased and items grew more powerful, and warriors were given more HP as part of rebalances, tanks started having enough HP to make CH far superuor than anything else in terms of healing per mana. Since the MT-CH chain has become the much favored raiding technique.

The CH chain is an interesting stratygy, and personally i think it should be viable, but i hate the fact taht so much of teh game revolves around that one spell.

I see three basic wasy to deal with this design problem.

1. Accept that those are just the rules of the game.
2. Improve other heals to be competitive.
3. Nerf CH somehow.

Personally im am much in favor of retoning CH. I know this wil impact raiding dificulty, but that can be looked at later.

Hare is what I would do.
a. Rename CH!
b. Cap the original spell at 2k, and introduce higher level variants, with higher mana costs and higher caps.
c. make focus items affect the new CH.

Just my 2cp
Amathyst
level 50 cleric.
 
Lock this thread. :mad: There has been enough CH discussion and hijinks and nothing new can or will ever be said on the matter.


Regardles of your opinion on CH nothing can be done about it without destroying everything that has been built upon the currect system and more chopped up code is the last thing the server needs at the moment.
 
i do think the ch is just fine as it is. heh. i dont wanna make any complications till the new zones and epics are implanted.. then. eh i still dont want CH changed. but thatd be a time i wouldnt care as much about the topic. heh. me wants more zones=) and de epics sound good to have=)
 
WR is sufficiently small that we CAN actyally do sonmthuing to change things if we want. Where there is a will theres is a way.

And besides CH retuning can be done simply by changing a few spells, no code change will be required.

Waiting till new stuff is implented is the wrong way to do it. It is much easier to fix the problem, and then adapt the new content to the fix, than to implemnet new stuff that relies on the curren CH, and then have to retune that as well.
 
hmm

I personally like the CH. I like the fact that you need x amount of Clerics to take on a mob. If cleric X doesn't pay attention and messes up on the CH the main tank dies. I'm might be in the minority but I like the CH.

instead of a conversation thread maybe you should do a poll and see how many people want to see CH even changed then let the GM team discuss it and offer solutions or let them post up to us if they want some input.

Just my two copper pieces

Cy
 
Duma is right. You can't change CH without fucking with everything else. Please god just lock this.
 
If it wasn't CH it would be another issue to gripe about.

Healers have power healing spells and are needed/underplayed in any MMO.

Clerics are the only class in the game capable of serious healing power at a raid rate, is that such a bad thing?

We rely on tanks & We rely on dmg dealers.
Without them Cleric would be almost useless.
And without us everyone else would be dead.

I think its a nice little balance of power.
 
I agree as far as CH 'needing' to be changed, however, the way people are these days (*cough* rude posters *cough cough*) changing it at all would cause gripe. The reason being that it is so reliable, and also because raids are so simple with a CH chain. I dont mean simple simple, but if you ever took out CH the whole raid strategy would change, and lazy people hate change:lazy people play games: WR is a game: conclusion? people that play WR are 'lazy' insomuch as that when playing a game, people like to have fun, changing it all around to cause stress makes em loose that fun :) oh well....after the epics are done i wouldn't mind seing some work on cleric balance done, but untill then lets just deal with boring CH chains. :hug:
 
The chances that I will drag myself into a massive heap of balance problems by changing something like CH are quite tiny.

It's a fun thought to play with, but seriously, I have a million things I'd rather work on.
 
I dont mean simple simple, but if you ever took out CH the whole raid strategy would change,
Click to expand...


Yes, the new strategy would be.....*DIE*. Horribly.

As we have been trying to tell people it isn't a matter of something "needing" to be changed nor is it as simple as altering a spell profile and adding removing etc etc. If it was that simple it would have changed sometime in the last year I have patronized this server.


You want to take CH out all together? You think players are too "lazy" to formulate a new strategy outside of complete healing to deal on a ****ing mob that quads 1300, rampages every other round, AE stuns every other round, and has a million hp? Or a mob that currently requires a 10 minute CH chain and range attacks because it's AE(and the fact it rampages too) is so brutal it will kill everyone but the main tank in mere moments? It's already tough enough WITH CH.

Wan't different CH versions? That's been done too. It was called "Complete Recovery" and it was a level 49 or 59 spell and it cost a RIDICULOUS amount of mana to cast. The old 39 CH was given a massive aggro boost and using it on riads resulted in your clerics getting wiped out. The new low aggro CH they wanted people to use was like 600-800 mana and no cleric could get more then 5 or 6 off before going oom.

Other funky changes people in the past have gotten put in to CH like the fact you cant hit a player with more then 1 CH every 2 seconds. But originally it was 3 seconds requiring mandatory padding with relic spells to keep the tank alive vs certain mobs.

They have bumped up the CH mana cost a couple times.

You want a CH that heals 2k hp, it's called Blissful light.

Take CH out and buff base spell heal amounts and or healing inc and aa's then you break the exping game all together, and the raid game while everyhtng is being "reballanced" to the encounters.

Regardless what you do it's going to result in the first guild that tries raiding under those circumstances to most likely wipe and their members go on hiatus for another 2 week period while wiz tries to either ballance the server back or repeal all the changes or both. And that is somehting the server does not need to experience again, it's already happened enough times.

Is it a matter of "needing" to be changed? Is it broken now? No. It IS a matter of NOT being ABLE to change it.

It's all been heard and done before.
 
Im not a huge hater of CH although I do think its overpowered.. i think thats a given - What *I* personally would like to see is not the CH chain removed but a way found to move druids and shamans into the chain. That would really make the game more interesting and would make those underplayed classes (Druid more than Shaman) not only welcome on raids but wanted in guilds more. If you could accomplish the same goal with 4 clerics, 2 shamans and 3 druids that normally required 7 clerics I think that would be a huge improvement in the game and raiding.

Maybe they are too necessary as padders *shrug* what do I know Im just a wizzy.

Davan
65 Wizzy
Ruin
 
Coincidentally, what is the desperation to have the thread locked? If people want to talk about something let em talk about it, noones making you read it. Who cares if its beaten to death - obviously its something people want to still discuss, Im sure you can find something else to read that doesnt make you so mad.
 
Yaladwen: You obviously don't understand the raid game.

Raid mobs are balanced based on a complete heal chain

You said yourself that CH is the most efficient spell, by far. Removing it, or nerfing it to shit would make raid mobs immortal.

Besides, you have the word from wiz himself. It's not changing.
 
Solution, make everyone happy in all instances and make a 4 tick HoT in whitch each tick delivers its own CH. There would be a highish mana cost but no recast.

/sarcasm off ;)
 
I don't think you're being serious. regardless of that, however.

That would be the equivalent of a pause 60 chain. That wouldn't keep Alazif, Coltaine, or Rarok alive even on ENFORCER without massive (Massive) padding.
 
Yea I was joking, and yea, i didn't think of that....well then there you go, its a veritable idea, I is de Genious mwa ha ha
 
how is that a veritable idea? It would just make one cleric do the job of four. It's still a CH chain.

Try again.
 
If this is possible.. Why not add new spells? (Kinda taking a cue from EQ2... sigh)

If possible.. why not add a reactive shield that heals the character when he gets hit.. or a flat out DR% spells.. give them to say? shaman and druid. I mean.. for the Reactive at least.. couldn't you make an inverse dmg shield? that heals the character instead of hurting the mob? or would the shield just heal the mob? it would be a constant type of heal (which might break it to the exp game I realize, if you balanace to the raid.. sigh)

I'm trying to think of a good way to implement the DR%.. kinda drawing a blank atm since the idea just came to me about 30 seconds ago.. but this would make a decent way to suppliment padding AND it wouldnt really break exp cause it would be based on the dmg of the mob and sicne that scales from exping to raiding it would be a plausible way of handling such a thing.. (youd just get much better bang for your buck in a raid.. =p)

I dunno bash me all you want but instead talking about just making new chains if you DID take our CH at SOME point why not think of ways to suppliment a chain.. ie new utility spells..
 
Lucifer:

The problem is not big enough to warrant a huge overhaul of healing and buffing, as you're suggesting. Yes, raid healing in EQ sucks. Oh well. One facet of an overall great game.
 
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