LuciferTheFalen
Dalayan Beginner
Well.. I'm just trying to give you alternatives to just pumping up the other heals and deleting CH (which we already know will not be anytime in the near future..) sorry
The CH thread
- Thread starter Milvang
- Start date
Yeah I have to agree with the admins here, kill this thread. There are hundreds of more important things that could be done than trying to rework the entire raiding system. Not to mention more fun Epics, clearing lag and the most important to me creating a giant named in Lesser Fay out of the fay drake model ........ I dream of the day I can raid a giant rainbow colored butterfly on winters roar.
Good to see that that admin finds it acceptable to discuss issues, even thoug that are hard to fix.
The problem for me with CH as it stands, is that clerics pretty much do not develop from levl 50 to 65. The succes of a raid depends much more on the quantity of clerics, rather than the quality.
Nerfing CH as it stands, allowing it to be affected by items as AAss, then toning it (or new higher level spells) so a top geared cleric could still use it as effective as today, would not really affect what could be killed and not, it would just affect the quality of clerics you needed to get the job done.
On the other hand, I am a software developer myself, I can understand the desire to avoid the potential disater involved in making any changes to CH
The problem for me with CH as it stands, is that clerics pretty much do not develop from levl 50 to 65. The succes of a raid depends much more on the quantity of clerics, rather than the quality.
Nerfing CH as it stands, allowing it to be affected by items as AAss, then toning it (or new higher level spells) so a top geared cleric could still use it as effective as today, would not really affect what could be killed and not, it would just affect the quality of clerics you needed to get the job done.
On the other hand, I am a software developer myself, I can understand the desire to avoid the potential disater involved in making any changes to CH
You truly think that?
I am quite used to playing 2 clerics on a raid and i can tell you that it never gets boring. when a CH chain was going on in NF you did not only need to be focused as a cleric, it took more. And since we only had a few clerics on raids, people went oom so you needed to addept and canni in between CHs.
Removing CH would only make this worse much worse. NF could uphold a CH chain on the abombination with 4 clerics for very long because of a ch chain(quality). Removing CH we would drain out real fast so we would need more clerics. (quantity)
Noktar - If you're raiding with two clerics, you're either hitting low targets (parc, lenny, Crusher, arena master) or you've got 2 more druids in the chain. No two clerics, no matter how skilled, can divert the laws of time, making a CH chain fast enough to raid big mobs. And if they could, they'd run out of mana way too fast. Canni worms won't save you from that.
Saying that clerics basically don't develop is silly. Put a level 50 cleric in a chain sometime, see how long he lasts. Cleric healing doesn't end with CH. Even on raid trash, clerics get good use of their light heals. Padding clerics make good use of remedies, Elixer of Bliss, Althuna's etc.
Saying that clerics basically don't develop is silly. Put a level 50 cleric in a chain sometime, see how long he lasts. Cleric healing doesn't end with CH. Even on raid trash, clerics get good use of their light heals. Padding clerics make good use of remedies, Elixer of Bliss, Althuna's etc.
well, reading his msg. the way i read it is he says HE plays 2 clerics. now this could be my missreading. but thats the way i understood it. as in he 2boxes 2... but then again i could be wrong. it wouldnt be a first=)
my 2cents... ch works. i dont see nothing wrong with how it works. so a raid wouldnt work so well without it... thats kinda the point. how well would a raid work without a tank? or a slow? its just one of the bonuses to being high level. i say it seems to be a good thing with how it is. why not leave it alone?
my 2cents... ch works. i dont see nothing wrong with how it works. so a raid wouldnt work so well without it... thats kinda the point. how well would a raid work without a tank? or a slow? its just one of the bonuses to being high level. i say it seems to be a good thing with how it is. why not leave it alone?
Yeah i like this idea. CH is seems like a good idea and all but in a raid situation its just about everyone clicking their CH macro every 10 seconds or whatever and being part of the chain. Its kinda boring. And even in a group being a healer is boring.
But thats EQ..... WR has alot of new cool things but its still based on EQ and the whole deal with combat could do with an upgrade imo. But it should be left for a new game like Vanguard:SOH or something.
Every class in EQ (even WR) just has to spam a few buttons over and over to solo, group, or raid. Theres not much to it and i find it really boring. Im not sure how it works in EQ2 but i hear its maybe not an improvement on EQ but maybe even a backward step.
What bugs is soloing as a necro is about snare+fear+dots or just root+dots. Solo as a chanter is charm + slow. Solo as a wizard is just AE snare + AE damage etc..etc..etc... In groups its similar or sometimes worse (as a chanter if theres a shaman in the group i dont even need to slow so all i do is nuke+nuke+nuke) And raids is the same story.
Seeing as combat is the main part of EQ its just a shame that its kinda mindless. I loved it at first but after a while it just gets old and it always leaves me thinking of getting a chimp to play the game for me. *pictures myself saying "just click that top spell, then the one under it, and then the one under that...... and do it a gazillion times".*
I cant wait to see Vanguard:SOH and ElderScrolls:Oblivion to see if they can take combat a step forward. I was hoping EQ2 would but it didnt. From what ive read about Vanguard too, it doesnt sound too promising.
As much as i love RPG's im feeling like its over for me unless some game can have a revolution Im playing Morrowind at the moment and altho i love it... the combat is pretty pathetic. I always pick mage type characters in RPGs to atleast give some strategy with spells and stuff. But in morrowind, even altho there is hundreds of interesting spells and debuffs and things to choose from.... every single battle just involves me clicking my 1 biggest nuke to annihilate every mob around me. Its lame.
But thats EQ..... WR has alot of new cool things but its still based on EQ and the whole deal with combat could do with an upgrade imo. But it should be left for a new game like Vanguard:SOH or something.
Every class in EQ (even WR) just has to spam a few buttons over and over to solo, group, or raid. Theres not much to it and i find it really boring. Im not sure how it works in EQ2 but i hear its maybe not an improvement on EQ but maybe even a backward step.
What bugs is soloing as a necro is about snare+fear+dots or just root+dots. Solo as a chanter is charm + slow. Solo as a wizard is just AE snare + AE damage etc..etc..etc... In groups its similar or sometimes worse (as a chanter if theres a shaman in the group i dont even need to slow so all i do is nuke+nuke+nuke) And raids is the same story.
Seeing as combat is the main part of EQ its just a shame that its kinda mindless. I loved it at first but after a while it just gets old and it always leaves me thinking of getting a chimp to play the game for me. *pictures myself saying "just click that top spell, then the one under it, and then the one under that...... and do it a gazillion times".*
I cant wait to see Vanguard:SOH and ElderScrolls:Oblivion to see if they can take combat a step forward. I was hoping EQ2 would but it didnt. From what ive read about Vanguard too, it doesnt sound too promising.
As much as i love RPG's im feeling like its over for me unless some game can have a revolution
Im playing Morrowind at the moment and altho i love it... the combat is pretty pathetic. I always pick mage type characters in RPGs to atleast give some strategy with spells and stuff. But in morrowind, even altho there is hundreds of interesting spells and debuffs and things to choose from.... every single battle just involves me clicking my 1 biggest nuke to annihilate every mob around me. Its lame.
zodium
Dalayan Elder
First of all, I'd like to preface this post with the statement "Shut the fuck up".
This isn't going to be a terribly long post, but here we go: I'm sick and tired of all you ignorants with no understanding of the raid game or balancing importance of CH. The truth is, CH is the only thing that makes warriors viable tanks at all.
Imagine, if you will, that CH only healed 5000HP instead of 10000. Now what, I ask you, would be the point of exceeding maybe 6000HP? Following that, what would make warriors better than monks at tanking? One could presumbly wholly change the way AC works, or how mobs hit, or retune some encounters to be less massive damage-based, but I assure you that very few or none of you have the slightest grasp of the balancing issues any of those changes would cause. It would take months and months to rebalance the game to the point it's balanced now just because you think a level 39 spell is too powerful when in fact it serves exactly the purpose it's designed to. CH is not "stock CH", and it has been modified for WR to do what we want it to.
TOO LONG DIDN'T READ: Shut up and stop making long-winded posts, it's not getting changed.
This isn't going to be a terribly long post, but here we go: I'm sick and tired of all you ignorants with no understanding of the raid game or balancing importance of CH. The truth is, CH is the only thing that makes warriors viable tanks at all.
Imagine, if you will, that CH only healed 5000HP instead of 10000. Now what, I ask you, would be the point of exceeding maybe 6000HP? Following that, what would make warriors better than monks at tanking? One could presumbly wholly change the way AC works, or how mobs hit, or retune some encounters to be less massive damage-based, but I assure you that very few or none of you have the slightest grasp of the balancing issues any of those changes would cause. It would take months and months to rebalance the game to the point it's balanced now just because you think a level 39 spell is too powerful when in fact it serves exactly the purpose it's designed to. CH is not "stock CH", and it has been modified for WR to do what we want it to.
TOO LONG DIDN'T READ: Shut up and stop making long-winded posts, it's not getting changed.
rab
Dalayan Beginner
melwin said:
If CH only healed 5k, we'd shorten the chain to around 1 second instead of the current 2. And since when did monks become exactly like warriors but with less hp? I had no idea the differences between the classes were so few.
Edit: I'm just saying. I hate the way CH is, but it cannot be changed. If it were for some reason, we'd find away around it. Etc. <3
On WR a CH can only land on a player once every 2 seconds, so change that CH chain to 1 sec .....
Full AA's a monk has more avoidance than a warrior so yes a monk is a better tank (as in takeing less damage) now, a monk get what 5k hp with good gear and buffs, and war gets 8k+ now there is what makes a warrior good, the hp combined with CH. If they where going to change CH then they have to remake everything in the code as far as avoidance and ac goes, or a warrior is useless, then you just have the monk as MT instead. But then CH don't exist anymore so well, we now need clr bot * 50 to take on a hard raid mob, oh wait, people want to ban DC'ing, ok we need 50 new players that want to main a cleric.... eh... I have to agree with the developers, shut the fuck up and leave this thread alone.
Full AA's a monk has more avoidance than a warrior so yes a monk is a better tank (as in takeing less damage) now, a monk get what 5k hp with good gear and buffs, and war gets 8k+ now there is what makes a warrior good, the hp combined with CH. If they where going to change CH then they have to remake everything in the code as far as avoidance and ac goes, or a warrior is useless, then you just have the monk as MT instead. But then CH don't exist anymore so well, we now need clr bot * 50 to take on a hard raid mob, oh wait, people want to ban DC'ing, ok we need 50 new players that want to main a cleric.... eh... I have to agree with the developers, shut the fuck up and leave this thread alone.
rab
Dalayan Beginner
Since we were in the realm of hypotheticals, I thought I could hypothetically remove the limit on the pause. I knew someone was going to bring that up.
And ok ok fine, a monk = warrior - hp.
PS:
Surely everyone realizes it would be a NIGHTMARE for everyone involved (devs and players) to remove CH, but one must also realize that it is a nightmare that it exists in the first place. That is, I think, what this thread is about -- simply complaints about the horrible idea that was initiated in this game (EQ, not WR) and forced all encounters afterwards to be balanced around.
<3 Spread the love <3
And ok ok fine, a monk = warrior - hp.
PS:
Surely everyone realizes it would be a NIGHTMARE for everyone involved (devs and players) to remove CH, but one must also realize that it is a nightmare that it exists in the first place. That is, I think, what this thread is about -- simply complaints about the horrible idea that was initiated in this game (EQ, not WR) and forced all encounters afterwards to be balanced around.
<3 Spread the love <3
zodium
Dalayan Elder
rabe said:
uhhh...what good would lowering it to one second do? It'd still be more efficient to cast it on someone with 6000 HP but more avoidance if CH is hardcapped at 5000 every 1 second since it can't heal all those 8500 HP anyway without a huge margin.
The problem, also, really isn't the plausibility of monks actually tanking since they're not terribly good aggro-wise, but I felt it illustrated my point pretty well.
