Struggling pet classes

Couldn't it solve the problem at hand though? At this point the values are an unknown but it's realistic to think pets geared out with the new pet gear system would be more durable than they are currently and it would give you control over which kind of stats you choose to enhance on your pet. If pet AC is actually in the neighbourhood of 2200 and isn't actually doing much of anything that's probably a bug or something.
 
Couldn't it solve the problem at hand though?

Sadly this not likely.

If Waldorf will not allow adequate pet survivability under the current system, there is no reason to believe he will allow it under any replacement system.
 
Sadly this not likely.

If Waldorf will not allow adequate pet survivability under the current system, there is no reason to believe he will allow it under any replacement system.
I'm sure there would be more leeway since you'd have to be actively working to get pet gear instead of just a passive increase across the board.
 
Yeah I'm sorry but I'm not seeing why so many of you seem to think pet gear couldn't have lots of AC on it..?

I remember being told a long time ago that classes treat AC differently. If you took a tank, melee dps and caster, gave them all the same AC each one would gain different mitigation (tank getting the highest bonus, melee dps second, and casters third). I talked to Eisley when the nerf first went in and he said the air pet had around 16khp and 2200 AC fully buffed. That looks alright on paper but what does that 2200 AC actually do for the pet? Do they gain any actual benefit from AC because if you see how much damage they take it doesn't look like it. I'd be curious to find out.

2200 AC on a pet would provide exactly the same mitigation as 2200 AC on a player (not considering AA and overcap STA mitigation, of course). The only difference is that pets get 1:1 AC from items where melees and healers get 1.57:1 and casters get 1.2:1, not to mention having almost three times as many non-weapon gear slots; on the other hand, pets get 1:1 AC from buffs where players only get 0.29:1. But like I said, the end values work the same way whether you're talking about a player or a pet or an NPC.

As always, though, very nice to see several people's first impression is that switching to a new system couldn't possibly help anything, really makes me want to spend more time thinking about it. I was thinking that since STA doesn't help NPCs it could be used as a sort of demi-deathsave stat, i.e. when your pet takes a hit that would be fatal it gets reduced by (item-STA * HPratio)/10000; for example, if they had 100 STA from items and took a fatal hit when sitting at 70% HP, the damage would be reduced by 70%. Would still provide some added longevity at low HP too, but would take more STA to become significant. Also would have to be capped, maybe around 90% reduction or something.

But it couldn't help so I'll forget I thought of it.
 
With all the talk of pets getting ravaged by melee I'm curious, what are pet defensive skills like compared to players?
 
Zae,
I like the idea, though the items would have probably have to have really high AC to offset the limited slots a pet has compared to a player. I could see allot of upset noobs wondering why the pet gear was so much "better" than PC gear. Or, if possible, re-code pets to a 2:1 AC at minimum? This system would be a great way to improve pets across all levels and tiers, actually.
The deathsave idea sounds intriguing, to say the least. Would there be some kind of emote to know that it happened?
 
Zae,
I like the idea, though the items would have probably have to have really high AC to offset the limited slots a pet has compared to a player. I could see allot of upset noobs wondering why the pet gear was so much "better" than PC gear. Or, if possible, re-code pets to a 2:1 AC at minimum? This system would be a great way to improve pets across all levels and tiers, actually.
The deathsave idea sounds intriguing, to say the least. Would there be some kind of emote to know that it happened?
If they are already rolling at 2200 base AC why would they need really high AC on gear? They start out ahead of the curve already.
 
That's assuming they have that high of AC. I have no idea just how high their AC is, that was an assumption by a player only. Not sure how he arrived at that number, or even what pet he was using at the time. But it would seem it isn't really that high, as they die quickly to WW/Riposte, and it stated that pet AC should react the same way as player AC.
 
I think the emphasis might have been on "had," but I'm not sure. I see 1241 AC on a freshly summoned runic2 Mage air pet with no buffs etc. Spectral Silks add 77 AC, Aego adds 230, WoN 40 maybe, 75 from Burnout Blaze, uh... I can't remember if there are other AC buffs.
 
For the record I love the Zaela ideas. I am sure they "could" help and wish you the best of luck with them.

There are a ton of things that "could" help eg

Give the pets a ton more AC
Give the pets mitigation
Give the Mage a new summon armour spell
Get spires (and above) mobs to drop Animation type weapons
even (dare I say it) put the hit points back on

But the question remains - What makes anyone think that if Waldorf believes that the current suvivability is appropriate anything would be allowed to happen?

I would love to be wrong here.
 
You'd think that AC might actually scale with one of the pet focuses
 
For a mere 69 cents a day, you can help struggling pet classes in their effort to be realized as fully humanoid Dalayans who need their pets to not easily die so that they can realize their full damage potential.
 
Add pet mitigation tomes? And add 2's to existing pet tomes? I dont mind having to work a bit for T11+ survivability
 
Well if the tomes make a scaleable difference, why not let them be done with lvl65 as only reqirement like the other pet tomes.
You dont HAVE to do 5CoP before you do other tomes.
 
I like the idea of permanent pet gear! The beastlord murk spell would probably need to be changed as well for the same reason the mage pet spell would.

Pet inadequacy is actually a problem that begins at level 28 for beastlords, then shows up again at level 37, then again at level 46ish. I really really liked Zaela's idea of having a single pet that scales with the level and gear of its owner, and was very disappointed to see it trashed sight unseen, since it solved so many of these issues rather neatly. If there was a way to incorporate that part into this as well, I think we'd be closer to an ideal solution.
 
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I haven't really read this thread in any depth and this isn't particularly on topic as far as arguments for/against whatever are concerned, but I'm in an idea-thinky mood (though I'm sure people have brought this up before):

When a character dies, they don't lose their gear. It doesn't seem to me that there's any huge reason why it couldn't be the same way for pets.

So my thought is basically just to make the pet inventory static and let players gear up their pets in much the same way they gear up their characters. Add some pet-only armor and weapons to raid encounters across the tiers--preferably as wholly extra drops rather than taking up space that could have held player-usable pieces of gear--and take out most if not all of the trash-drop pet weapons from citadel and emberflow and whatnot.

Could be used to address survivability and scaling issues as well as just adding an extra level of pet management and give pet classes more to achieve. At the same time stats like INT and WIS can be made to do something for pets, and maybe we could even make them use their ATK values in their damage calculations. Also, I'd make it so pets return whatever they were wearing when you give them a new piece of gear, allowing you to swap in their gear for them and suchlike.

If this idea was agreed to I'd almost want to say that Companion Strength and Health focuses should be axed in favor of focusing on a more robust pet inventory, and maybe axe the replacement for Pet Discipline and have pets consider Focus Effects on the items they are wearing themselves too. Maybe even have pets consider weapon damage and delay somehow, although that would be tough to balance with their old "new pet, bigger dmg numbers" values. But those are details that could be ironed out later.

Anyway it's kind of a theme with me recently I guess but I think pets could be much more interesting than the simple bags of HP, damage and maybe 1 ability that they tend to be.

Would need to replace the Mage murk spell though.

This would be really Really cool.
 
I like the idea of permanent pet gear! The beastlord murk spell would probably need to be changed as well for the same reason the mage pet spell would.

Pet inadequacy is actually a problem that begins at level 28 for beastlords, then shows up again at level 37, then again at level 46ish. I really really liked Zaela's idea of having a single pet that scales with the level and gear of its owner, and was very disappointed to see it trashed sight unseen, since it solved so many of these issues rather neatly. If there was a way to incorporate that part into this as well, I think we'd be closer to an ideal solution.

I agree, the two systems together would help solve most (if not all) of the scalability issues for pet classes.
 
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