Somatic Bond and Avatar of Destruction

Boehm said:
I lost 500 dps over the weekend putting me at a 750 dps disadvantage to wizards and a 650 dps disadvantage to mages. This is with vah back and running 7 dots. AoDing a necromancer is a waste of time. That 500 was the dot tome.

Unless you wizard is garbo and the nec has Codices of power over them, but thats really another issue.
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let me guess - those parses were with WIZ/MAG being AoD'd, while you didnt have that thing. Guess what, now that the ENC will have his name next ot the damage caused by AoD, the damage next to said WIZ/MAG name will drop by a lot as well.

But I don't think we will know where we really stand now before we see parses.
 
Funny thing bout AoD is that is has no recast time. So it stays on my wizards AND my necros.

Magician gets alot of dmg from his pets, rains and dd does not out dps a necro so I would ALWAYS pick necro first for AoD
 
Nwaij said:
let me guess - those parses were with WIZ/MAG being AoD'd, while you didnt have that thing. Guess what, now that the ENC will have his name next ot the damage caused by AoD, the damage next to said WIZ/MAG name will drop by a lot as well.

But I don't think we will know where we really stand now before we see parses.
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No, I was aoded. I also ran chaotic destruction and fulmination as well.
 
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You did get a significant nerf, but you are also overstating those numbers. Looking at our parses, you lost ~250-300 dps.

Also, those parses are pre AoD change which is going to significantly nerf wizard dps.

Current FWF dps rankings will probably look like Ranger/Mage>Wizard/Necro>Monk/Rogue

Also, since mages get so much damage from pets which dont benefit from AoD, and when an enchanter AoDs a wizard they will not get any ultimate blasts, which account for a huge portion of our dps, I would wager that necros might just be the BEST target for the new AoD.
 
Silosobi said:
You did get a significant nerf, but you are also overstating those numbers. Looking at our parses, you lost ~250-300 dps.

Also, those parses are pre AoD change which is going to significantly nerf wizard dps.

Current FWF dps rankings will probably look like Ranger/Mage>Wizard/Necro>Monk/Rogue

Also, since mages get so much damage from pets which dont benefit from AoD, and when an enchanter AoDs a wizard they will not get any ultimate blasts, which account for a huge portion of our dps, I would wager that necros might just be the BEST target for the new AoD.
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1366 to 866 for the exact same conditions is 250 - 300?
 
Velleity + pets
--- DMG: 521090 (7.73%) @ 894 dps (866 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 287419 @524dps

Velleity + pets
--- DMG: 726689 (11%) @ 1279 dps (1266 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 257873 @457dps

Okay, thats 400 difference, but that last rujik parse is higher than usual.

Here are a few others from the same fight:

Velleity + pets
--- DMG: 661335 (10.02%) @ 1119 dps (1100 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 164748 @278dps

Velleity + pets
--- DMG: 666856 (10.11%) @ 1310 dps (1290 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 211055 @421dps

Velleity + pets
--- DMG: 642524 (9.82%) @ 1170 dps (1147 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 121804 @276dps

Seems like 300dps on average. Yes, thats a pretty huge nerf I am not disagreeing with you, but if you look at all the factors now, necros really might be the best target for AoD. They will without a doubt be the best target for AoD if the devs compensate for this nerf and bring you back up to par with other dps classes.
 
Silosobi said:
Also, since mages get so much damage from pets which dont benefit from AoD, and when an enchanter AoDs a wizard they will not get any ultimate blasts, which account for a huge portion of our dps, I would wager that necros might just be the BEST target for the new AoD.
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This. I am willing to bet that the new enchanter changes will be adjusted at least a couple times in the next month so that it is not glaringly advantageous to GoG/AoD one class over any other and stack your raid with said class(es). In addition, with the incremental DPS of GoG/AoD being stripped from the recipient's parses it will be a lot easier to balance NEC/WIZ/MAG and ROG/MNK/RNG.. BST/BRD will be in flux though I am sure as their DPS contributions to the raid are not as easily quantified (Fiery/Blademasters/Vigor/Cunning).

I am keeping high hopes that after some of this re-balancing is done that some focus can be put on tanks.
 
Silosobi said:
Velleity + pets
--- DMG: 521090 (7.73%) @ 894 dps (866 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 287419 @524dps

Velleity + pets
--- DMG: 726689 (11%) @ 1279 dps (1266 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 257873 @457dps

Okay, thats 400 difference, but that last rujik parse is higher than usual.

Here are a few others from the same fight:

Velleity + pets
--- DMG: 661335 (10.02%) @ 1119 dps (1100 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 164748 @278dps

Velleity + pets
--- DMG: 666856 (10.11%) @ 1310 dps (1290 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 211055 @421dps

Velleity + pets
--- DMG: 642524 (9.82%) @ 1170 dps (1147 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 121804 @276dps

Seems like 300dps on average. Yes, thats a pretty huge nerf I am not disagreeing with you, but if you look at all the factors now, necros really might be the best target for AoD. They will without a doubt be the best target for AoD if the devs compensate for this nerf and bring you back up to par with other dps classes.
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The last parse includes primary pet. The former parses do not. You also choose selected parses to make you point and not the one I was referring to, but this is your stock-in-trade.
 
I dont see any parse on our forums where you did 1366, I literally just copy/pasted the last 5 rujik parses ignoring one where you died.

The more I think about this change the more I dislike it. I can only imagine the purpose of it is to make AoD more "balanced" between classes. Old AoD provided benefit to classes like this:
Wizard + 50% dps
Necro + 30% dps
Mage + 10-30% dps (depends if you have Empowered Storm)

The new spell will look like:
Wizard + ~25% dps
Necro + ~40% dps
Mage + ~30% dps

It just seems like the classes will remain imbalanced but it will shift who is a priority target and who is not. Its nice to see the damage coming from the enchanter, but it felt like the game had a fairly good balance before, and that is all going to hell with recent changes.

All I can hope for is maybe some cool changes/tomes/etc to bring wizards back up to par since we were so heavily reliant on AoD to be a top tier dps class.
 
Boehm said:
The last parse includes primary pet. The former parses do not. You also choose selected parses to make you point and not the one I was referring to, but this is your stock-in-trade.
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And you only selected one parse pre-nerf and one post-nerf to make your comparison, whereas Solo posted a larger sample size. If you take all of your parses since the vah back change and took an average (of DPS not total damage) and compared it to our most recent Rujik kill (post runic changes) then you have a more reasonable comparison of the impact of the changes. But really it isn't a fair comparison until you have two like sample sizes (for pre- and post-)..
 
Silosobi said:
I dont see any parse on our forums where you did 1366, I literally just copy/pasted the last 5 rujik parses ignoring one where you died.

The more I think about this change the more I dislike it. I can only imagine the purpose of it is to make AoD more "balanced" between classes. Old AoD provided benefit to classes like this:
Wizard + 50% dps
Necro + 30% dps
Mage + 10-30% dps (depends if you have Empowered Storm)

The new spell will look like:
Wizard + ~25% dps
Necro + ~40% dps
Mage + ~30% dps

It just seems like the classes will remain imbalanced but it will shift who is a priority target and who is not. Its nice to see the damage coming from the enchanter, but it felt like the game had a fairly good balance before, and that is all going to hell with recent changes.

All I can hope for is maybe some cool changes/tomes/etc to bring wizards back up to par since we were so heavily reliant on AoD to be a top tier dps class.
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Why are you ignoring this (from the front-page):

"The overall purpose of these changes is two-fold: first, to make the active DPS contribution from Enchanters much easier to gauge; second, and reciprocally, to make non-Enchanter DPS much clearer and easier to compare by removing the uneven muddling on their numbers from Giantkin and Aura of Destruction."
 
Ah I guess I missed that. I read the front page early this morning and wasn't totally awake. It certainly will be nice to get actual numbers on how much enchanters add.

Its kind of gross how powerful enchanters are, especially at the endgame. Even ignoring dampening, curses, mezzing, buffs, shared mind (which of themselves justify enchanters), AoD and GoG probably add 2000-4000dps on FWF raids. This makes bringing an enchanter to the really challenging content basically required and that's not so fun when the guild enchanter just quit.
 
Silosobi said:
Ah I guess I missed that. I read the front page early this morning and wasn't totally awake. It certainly will be nice to get actual numbers on how much enchanters add.

Its kind of gross how powerful enchanters are, especially at the endgame. Even ignoring dampening, curses, mezzing, buffs, shared mind (which of themselves justify enchanters), AoD and GoG probably add 2000-4000dps on FWF raids. This makes bringing an enchanter to the really challenging content basically required and that's not so fun when the guild enchanter just quit.
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4000 DPS seems high... Keeping AoD/GoG on 5 targets for an entire fight nonstop would mean adding 800 DPS to each of the players, which I don't think is realistic. Enchanters are still the class that contributes the most overall raid DPS but hopefully this change will make it more clear.
 
Silosobi said:
Ah I guess I missed that. I read the front page early this morning and wasn't totally awake. It certainly will be nice to get actual numbers on how much enchanters add.

Its kind of gross how powerful enchanters are, especially at the endgame. Even ignoring dampening, curses, mezzing, buffs, shared mind (which of themselves justify enchanters), AoD and GoG probably add 2000-4000dps on FWF raids. This makes bringing an enchanter to the really challenging content basically required and that's not so fun when the guild enchanter just quit.
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If I had the option to I would happily supplement our raid roster with 3 Enchanters and wouldn't even hesitate to bring 2 in a raid (even before these changes) but the fact of the matter is there are not enough Enchanters on the server for that to happen. Hopefully these changes might pique the interest of retired Enchanters to come back or maybe inspire more players to roll an Enchanter.
 
Obscenitor said:
If I had the option to I would happily supplement our raid roster with 3 Enchanters and wouldn't even hesitate to bring 2 in a raid (even before these changes) but the fact of the matter is there are not enough Enchanters on the server for that to happen. Hopefully these changes might pique the interest of retired Enchanters to come back or maybe inspire more players to roll an Enchanter.
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Yeah we've been rolling 2 enchanters recently and it's pretty awesome with how many Imps and Giants run around, plus 2 sets of curses (I could have sworn there is/used to be a mechanic that prevented you from casting the same curse right after another one, but maybe it was removed to make enchanters stack better??), mezzing anything is super easy too.


I'm looking forward to seeing how these new changes work, particularly regarding whether the mimic'd spells will lock out enchanters (assuming it does to some extent, or enchanters just got pretty ridiculous)
 
Melees (mostly monks) have told me that GOG added around 300 dps to them. You can reasonably keep 4 gogs up for an entire boss fight. Add in pet and dots, and Enchanters should parse around 1k-1.2k on raids, and probably around 600-800 on most 6man things, group make-up being a big factor.

I don't know exactly what AoD added to Wizards or Necros, I didn't pay much mind to it and nobody ever told me a real number of what it added. The higher geared/better player will still be the AoD target, regardless. I mean, if your wizard is your best geared caster and is a good player, he will be pushing to do more damage. If your mage/necro/whoever is a slacker, they will be a less appealing target to AoD now because it will directly reflect on the Enchanter.

Now that Enchanters can actually care about a dps parse some things will inevitably change and it sounds pretty cool overall. Being more prepared for a boss fight in terms of knowing who produces the most damage per that encounter and having some focus swap gear available will come into play now and that should make things more interesting.
 
I probably gain 500 dps from AoD.

Necros gained 300 from the old one, but 400+ on the new spell wouldn't surprise me.

Also I kind of disagree about aoding the best player. Now all the focuses/tomes/channeling/etc of that best player is ignored and all that matters is the spell that they cast. If a #1 wizard and a gimp wizard cast moon comet, the only difference would potentially be CSI.
 
If you're a scummy piece of shit that doesn't do anything on raids, you'll never get targetted with AoD ever again because the Enchanter will actually see it immediately, "Oh hey, that Necro doesn't stack dots and he just chain casts Archaic, what a shitty, never AoDing again".

Your theory that Wizards are taking a dps nerf is completely wrong.

When you XP or do a 6-man without an Enchanter, whatever dps you do is how much dps you do. When the Enchanter is present, you get AoD, and you personally do more dps. It is a bonus, a benefit, of having an Enchanter.

Now it is changed so that the Enchanter will still AoD you, but the damage is going to reflect on the Enchanter and not you you you you . This isn't about Wizard or Necro or Mage dps. It's about showing how much the Enchanter provides.

Your rebuttal that the increase in crit % gave you that much more dps will be irrelevant because they have already said they are working toward balancing it so that it stays pretty much the same.

So just pretend that all of your parses from today and dating back to the beginning of SoD are irrelevant because technically they weren't your dps anyway, it was your dps being augmented by the Enchanter.

Does this make sense? Idk.
 
Solo isn't saying that, he's just saying that since wizards receive a much larger proportion of their dps from crits/ults than any other class, they won't be the defacto AoD target any more since enchanters won't be getting ults/primals.
 
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