darksabbath
Dalayan Master
Absolutely love this idea. Where's Picard to say "Make it so."?
Shaman as a healer.
- Thread starter Snake
- Start date
Absolutely love this idea. Where's Picard to say "Make it so."?
Yes, that claim i wont disbute. Once the HoT is cast, you cant do shit to stop the healing to get mana back, or make it go to an other char.
But will you call me a liar if i say that in almost all fights, there is always 1 char taking most the damage, and therefor will benefit greatly from 1-2 hots just ticking away?
From my experience as a spam healer (shm) i keep my spamming on 1 target almost always, and often because of the relatively long cast time, and minor heal of it, i let it land, even if it looks like im only going to heal like 10%. You never know if a good round comes in JUST as the heal lands.
BUT yeah i still often assist what we are killing to make sure im still healing the right char (mostly if im not in the tank group), so yeah, you have a point, but in my experience around 90% of the time, most/all the melee dps goes in to 1 char.
An other point you could make, is that you have no controle of when your HoT's tick. If you have hots ticking for 1395 (base, prolly around 2790 in game, potentialy 5580 if both crit), you have no controle what so ever of when they will land.
So even though the Tank is taking all the damage, you hots x2 might tick JUST as the Shm did his spam heal.
Actually, looking at Shm and Druid heal's cast time, they have Very close to 6 seconds cast time (recast time included), which means you might actually end up making all your hot ticks worthless, as you continously lands Revitalize Just as you hots was about to tick.
Then again, you might save alot of regular heals, because the Hots tick up the tank, and you manage to duck your heal, and start recasting...
TL;DR
HoT's are *Fire and forget* and can be *Fire and 'FUCK!'* but could also be *Fire and "free" healing*.
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What are you trying to say exactly
Its complicated.
Druid hots are potentialy the best heal per mana (single target heals) in the game. (So good that even a Shaman with Canabalize cant out heal him over time.)
But since most players (often including the Druid) dont have any idea when the hot is going to tick, no one "plans ahead" for its healing, and could snipe it (or the tank just dodged everything for 6 seconds, or is no longer the target, ect ect).
The less healing the tank needs, the more likely they are to be the only thing healing him.
The more healing you need to do on the Tank every 6 seconds, the more likely they are to get sniped.
Woundbane spam and hot ticks are very identical, in interval time and healing. Woundbane you can stop, HoT you can not, but then hots are alot cheaper mana wise.
One of my claims are that Woundbane is to slow (landing a heal every ~6 seconds when you just mindlessly spam it) .
You all say im wrong, meaning basicly HoT's are super useful, especially when you take in to account that it free's up the Druid with cast time to do almost the same amount of healing from normal heals at the same time.
(I did the math for this, in post #7 in this thread)
Druid hots are potentialy the best heal per mana (single target heals) in the game. (So good that even a Shaman with Canabalize cant out heal him over time.)
But since most players (often including the Druid) dont have any idea when the hot is going to tick, no one "plans ahead" for its healing, and could snipe it (or the tank just dodged everything for 6 seconds, or is no longer the target, ect ect).
The less healing the tank needs, the more likely they are to be the only thing healing him.
The more healing you need to do on the Tank every 6 seconds, the more likely they are to get sniped.
Woundbane spam and hot ticks are very identical, in interval time and healing. Woundbane you can stop, HoT you can not, but then hots are alot cheaper mana wise.
One of my claims are that Woundbane is to slow (landing a heal every ~6 seconds when you just mindlessly spam it) .
You all say im wrong, meaning basicly HoT's are super useful, especially when you take in to account that it free's up the Druid with cast time to do almost the same amount of healing from normal heals at the same time.
(I did the math for this, in post #7 in this thread)
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Zapple
Dalayan Elder
He is saying he is not Zedaine and does not have a druid in his guild like Zedaine who is able to carry a raid to the point where casting group hots at the right time saves the caster group cleric 60%+ of their total mana over the course of a tier 13 monster fight with big AOEs. There is only one Zedaine after all.
Snake: Just stop. The way this thread is going: you make a point (valid or not) Rad, Stral, random person A tosses out some condescending troll. You think they're actually arguing with you instead of trolling, you post more stuff. Once in a blue moon someone actually addresses what you say (right or wrong). I personally, and I assume many, are sick or the dead horse being beaten on both sides. Personally I agree that at least the slow on R1 could poof, but nobody pays any attention to you when you say that. (You could say that exact thing word for word and nothing else in the whole thread, and the response from half these people is gonna be "Shamans are OP, you need to play shaman better. Shamans heal fine." and both of us can wonder if they even read what you said) You can post all the math you want and most of these people aren't gonna read it. (personally I have no experience on a druid and very limited on a cleric, so I don't really have a stance. I just read shaman threads because I main one...) They're just gonna bash you with no actual response to what you said. So this thread isn't, and hasn't been for awhile worth anyone's (including your) time. If any changes will be made or not, that decision probably came pages ago.
Yea but how does that saying go? If you can't explain something to someone so a 5 year old could understand it, then you don't know what you're talking about.
I think that's how it goes anyways. Maybe it's if you can't explain something like you're a drunken 5 year old, then...
lithiumbat
Dalayan Beginner
It's really more, if you can't convey it in a way that a 5 year old could successfully convey the basic idea to someone else, then you don't know what you are talking about.
huey hit it pretty much spot on. I see a few useful suggestions in the thread, but about 50 times as much crap. I think the key point that huey is really trying to make is that a 'suggestion' thread isn't a soap box to bitch about what you personally don't like about something. Doing so never provides a strong foundation that someone can constructively add to your argument.
@Snake
If there is really an argument to be had here, don't frame in a way that only really benefits YOU. That will only serve to incite negative responses, and "You need to learn how to play better." You would have been much more successful if you had started the thread by posing the issue as an open question about what aspects of the shaman spell line could be revamped given the current utility (or lack thereof if it were the case) they serve to groups/raids. Giving other people ground to decompose your argument will ultimately provide a much better understanding of what you are after to the rest of us. Throwing out a bunch of numbers doesn't prove anything, that is a political technique to sway the masses, not the people who actually take the time to try and understand what you are arguing (which I honestly did attempt to understand, but as several people have pointed out, there is a lack of objectivity... too much of it relies on how you interpret the situation as a problem vs actually being a game of numbers.)
What you really want is to get the people who play Druids to actually support your change, they are after all the ones who have to make a measure of sacrifice, if not indirectly, by giving shamans the ability to serve the same post they do in groups.
What he said.
Welcome to SoD boards, that is what you are up against in here.
That and people like Apros comming and trying to tell me how stuff works, and he doesnt even know recovery time or recast time on his own spells....
But still i pointed out how Warriors was broken DPS wise like 4 years ago, and today its fixed (Probably not because of my post, but who knows, it might just be me saying it way back, that helped spawn the fix).
Also i got mobs CH cast time increased from 2.5 seconds to like 10 seconds cast time.
I had finishing blow changed so it works at 10% and down.
So i know that obvious oversights can be fixed. Getting Shaman's just a tad back in the game as a group healer is a major challenge though, cause there is a massive bias that the Shaman is the most powerful class in SoD. Odd why so few play them heh.
Just because you can look things up in the spell parser and read numbers doesn't mean you think about the over balance and scope of the game. While I was wrong about the Ghot (Because I misinterpreted what you were calling "Cooldown") You are wrong about Shamans. Why do you think Zurkka is the most sought after person for almost every encounter? Because Shamans are amazing and anyone who cannot see that, must not play the class properly or have gotten he proper items along the way to compliment their class. FWF would probably be killing all your mobs right now (baring you played) if Zurkka was still playing, losing him for now is like a raidwide DB.
Otcho
Dalayan Pious Diety
No its because zurkka is a dreamboat.
Also true.
To be honest, because your to biased to ever just go with out him.
You probably took Zurkka to all new content, because you was so sure that with out the great shaman, it would end up a fail, instead of just go with two clerics and straight up laugh at it (or Druid Cleric).
If you brought him as a healer/slow/dps, well the more dps+slow a Bst could have offered, or probably even an enchanter, would have cut the fight time down alot (im assuming you had a Bard already, else obv a bard).
Either way, it doesnt make sense to me why you would ever bring a Shaman as a healer to any fight, unless its because you have to counter some mob that does moderate damage to 1 char over a very long time.
Cause lets face it, if there is alot of AE dps, well then a single Cleric (or Druid) will only last so long countering that. So even though the Shaman might be able to do his ~600 heal per sec on the Tank for atleast 6 minuts, then the Cleric (or Druid) wont be able to g heal for that long.
And no, slow will not change that.
Except we needed Zurkka for every single top end fight we did, despite having it all on farm status for months.
Otcho
Dalayan Pious Diety
Fact: Zurkka solo healed 4.3.
Guess someone should finally tell you and get this over with.
All of these threads were finalized in some post bango made or someone did where they said "if you can get zurkka to say there is a serious problem with the class I will accept it". The opinion of anyone else does not matter to these people.
Guess someone should finally tell you and get this over with.
All of these threads were finalized in some post bango made or someone did where they said "if you can get zurkka to say there is a serious problem with the class I will accept it". The opinion of anyone else does not matter to these people.
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A lot of replies saying how wrong Snake is and a lot of posts with math?
Edit: And Zurkka love posts, for which I will say that he is everything that I aspire to be....