rogues, my 2cp
- Thread starter Salarus
- Start date
As part of this posting, was backstab looked at?
Specifically, it capping at 100% haste, so after you have a GoE (77%), any item haste higher than 23% is useless?
This ends up making ~22% of rogue item haste, + giantkin haste + bard haste end up not helping 48% (per below) of rogue dps =/
Specifically, it capping at 100% haste, so after you have a GoE (77%), any item haste higher than 23% is useless?
This ends up making ~22% of rogue item haste, + giantkin haste + bard haste end up not helping 48% (per below) of rogue dps =/
Wiz said:
I meant to say thanks to Allie in my first post - was no small task logging 400+ mins of melee in a controlled situation like that. Thank you =p
To be entirely honest, if the dps numbers are where the admin view of balanced is, I'm content.
My only thought was (assuming that this was done without giantkin/bard haste):
If half of rogue dps doesnt get bumped by these spells, then in a real life situation you end up having much less of a spread between rogues and everyone else.
Then is it still 'right'?
I'm not disputing that ranger archery was overpowered, however, if archery is going to be as close to melee as it is now then can we get a return of Endless Quiver? For the extreme aggravation of spamming that damned ranged attack button AND not being able to 2box AND spending 100-200 pp per night, it's just plain not worth it to bow.
Wiz said:
Riposte? Why would I be attacking from the front except for a very limited number of encounters?
AoEs? The ONLY AoEs that I routinely outrange are Farg (which we never do anymore), Thaz lower fire mini and maybe a couple in CoD (again, that we never do).
Rampage? Ok, I'll give you that one.
It's easily worth 40 dps to be able to 2box a needed class on those nights when we are short of warm bodies or to be able to serve as an emergency tank should the MT fall. With the money I'll save from not spending it all on arrows I may actually be able to afford my eternal some day.
Thanks, Allielyn, for the effort put into the parsing. I've done a lot of parsing/testing myself and know how time consuming and tedious it can be.
I do have one question about the results, though. What was the level of the test mob?
The reason I ask is because if the mob is low enough (under 61, I think) for crippling blows then you can come up with some fairly distorted numbers due to the inherently higher crit rate from archery. It's pretty common for my bow dps on mobs that are low enough for crippling blows to land to vary 150% or more: 250, 280, 465, 300, 625, 275. Before this recent revamp to archery, I have on a few occasions parsed out at over 1k dps on dark blue mobs that I routinely did 350ish on if I happened to land a couple big cripples.
I do have one question about the results, though. What was the level of the test mob?
The reason I ask is because if the mob is low enough (under 61, I think) for crippling blows then you can come up with some fairly distorted numbers due to the inherently higher crit rate from archery. It's pretty common for my bow dps on mobs that are low enough for crippling blows to land to vary 150% or more: 250, 280, 465, 300, 625, 275. Before this recent revamp to archery, I have on a few occasions parsed out at over 1k dps on dark blue mobs that I routinely did 350ish on if I happened to land a couple big cripples.
Wiz said:
LOL. With the possible exception of Geadenea, noone in the history of SoD has fired more arrows than I have so I don't think your "lazy" comment applies. My point was that I don't think 40 DPS is enough to justify the cost of using archery full-time, thus my request for a return of Endless Quiver. If you don't agree, then I'll just have to lie in the floor and kick my feet and cry. It is your sand box, after all. I didn't think it would hurt to ask.
Allielyn
*Pony*
The mob was too high for cripples, yes, so currently I'd guess rangers still have a nice advantage there. It just won't show on raid trash/bosses.
Characters were buffed with most major long term buffs, but without styles, short term atk clickies, or short term buffs such as savagery and giantkin. The goal was not to parse MAX dps per class, but comparable dps per class.
Also, thanks to everyone who sent me their own parses from raids, etc. It helped work as a check that what I was doing was comparable to the real-life (lol?) application.
Characters were buffed with most major long term buffs, but without styles, short term atk clickies, or short term buffs such as savagery and giantkin. The goal was not to parse MAX dps per class, but comparable dps per class.
Also, thanks to everyone who sent me their own parses from raids, etc. It helped work as a check that what I was doing was comparable to the real-life (lol?) application.
Whoa whoa whoa! I found this little gem in the shaman healing thread:
Allie, you know I luv ya hon, but parsing the ranger WITH CotP and parsing the other classes w/o it and then balancing based on this is a serious faux pas. With duration inc and AAs I can get CotP's duration well over the 1.5 hour mark, that's not a short duration buff like giantkin/savagery. So casting CotP on the raid actually reduces my value, relative to the other DPS classes, since Rangers were balanced with it and the others were not?!?!? This would make it a very viable option to just load a ranger-bot for CotP then camp him in favor of, for example, a 2nd beastlord (I've consistently parsed Tocuus significantly higher than a meleeing Brandar despite having TONS more utility).
This is exactly what was happening on Live once you went beyond PoP and it's very overpowered droppable bows. Ranger DPS relative to the other classes was such that they were no longer welcome on raids until the encounter had become trivial. They did find a way to "force" the inclusion of at least one Ranger per raid which was to give them a buff that greatly improved the double/triple attack chances of everyone.
Allielyn said:
Allie, you know I luv ya hon, but parsing the ranger WITH CotP and parsing the other classes w/o it and then balancing based on this is a serious faux pas. With duration inc and AAs I can get CotP's duration well over the 1.5 hour mark, that's not a short duration buff like giantkin/savagery. So casting CotP on the raid actually reduces my value, relative to the other DPS classes, since Rangers were balanced with it and the others were not?!?!? This would make it a very viable option to just load a ranger-bot for CotP then camp him in favor of, for example, a 2nd beastlord (I've consistently parsed Tocuus significantly higher than a meleeing Brandar despite having TONS more utility).
This is exactly what was happening on Live once you went beyond PoP and it's very overpowered droppable bows. Ranger DPS relative to the other classes was such that they were no longer welcome on raids until the encounter had become trivial. They did find a way to "force" the inclusion of at least one Ranger per raid which was to give them a buff that greatly improved the double/triple attack chances of everyone.