How about a style that would grand a % chance to do a double backstab? Or a style that gives tripple attack %? And maybe nerf rangers a tad bit to even the gap like maybe rangers rogs could do the same or close to same dps in /s2 but then rogs could choose one of the styles i spoke of above and outdps them by far.
rogues, my 2cp
- Thread starter Salarus
- Start date
I always thought it was dumb that most classes got the same 'offensive' (/s 2) styles.
I'd love to see a style rogues could use pretty much 100% of the time (with dru regen for stamina, etc).
Basically, the same drain as /s4 now.
Or actually, what about altering the way /s4 currently works?
Something along the lines of exactly what it does now when in front of the mob, or some set % chance to double backstab while behind the mob.
I'd love to see a style rogues could use pretty much 100% of the time (with dru regen for stamina, etc).
Basically, the same drain as /s4 now.
Or actually, what about altering the way /s4 currently works?
Something along the lines of exactly what it does now when in front of the mob, or some set % chance to double backstab while behind the mob.
I've always thought Rogues to be the masters of deceptive combat. They strike whenever and wherever the enemy can't see them. A good enough rogue will never be seen; to this effect I think that making them immune to rampage and whirlwind is in order. You can't hit something you can't see, (maybe get a few blind strikes here and there, but maybe that's it) so you shouldn't be able to rampage it.
Back a while ago when Monk triple attack was nerfed, other classes got it nerfed too, so it was relatively balanced based on the numbers. Rogue DPS being low to begin with, this hurt them especially. Personally I think triple attack for Monks should be upped considerably, but that's another thread.
In summation, a tweak is in order I think. I've played CHASEUM (I refuse to refer to him as arraz, it's a crime), Droogie, and at least one other rogue in SoD, and their low DPS is relatively consistent throughout the tiers.
Back a while ago when Monk triple attack was nerfed, other classes got it nerfed too, so it was relatively balanced based on the numbers. Rogue DPS being low to begin with, this hurt them especially. Personally I think triple attack for Monks should be upped considerably, but that's another thread.
In summation, a tweak is in order I think. I've played CHASEUM (I refuse to refer to him as arraz, it's a crime), Droogie, and at least one other rogue in SoD, and their low DPS is relatively consistent throughout the tiers.
ryutakin
Dalayan Beginner
A consistant fight ups the rogue dps. Rogues having to click off attack to not be hit by ripostes/rampages lowers their dps quite a bit....Best idea possible as stated from the begining is to make them have a way to avoid ripostes/rampage. Not forever but atleast a stance.
We already have 'shadow stance' or w/e it is that lowers aggro. Could be a tweak to that that avoids riposte/rampage.
However, thats ignoring the biggest problem of lame rogue dps on every other mob out there.
I think the two ideas suggested before would go along way to 'fixing' rogues without nerfing the crap out of other classes.
shadow stance = avoid rampage and/or whirlwind
/s 4 (forget name) = timed (as now) backstabs from the front, or a (not timed) random % chance for a double backstab when behind.
Rogue dps in general goes up versus normal mobs, and stays about how it is on 'normal' mobs now while we fight rampage, etc.
************
Or we could just balance rogue weapons and the seriously out of whack 2h damage table ^_^
However, thats ignoring the biggest problem of lame rogue dps on every other mob out there.
I think the two ideas suggested before would go along way to 'fixing' rogues without nerfing the crap out of other classes.
shadow stance = avoid rampage and/or whirlwind
/s 4 (forget name) = timed (as now) backstabs from the front, or a (not timed) random % chance for a double backstab when behind.
Rogue dps in general goes up versus normal mobs, and stays about how it is on 'normal' mobs now while we fight rampage, etc.
************
Or we could just balance rogue weapons and the seriously out of whack 2h damage table ^_^
I would tend to agree that a stance that reduces riposte, rampage, etc would fit the rogue perfectly and isn't overpowered. It would fit the role too, as rogues are supposed to be agile enough to avoid these types of things. Imagine a giant monster swinging wildly while the nimble rogue avoids the attacks with Goku-like speed. Lets throw them something to help against crazy raid mobs!
well, i must say i really do like the idea of a stance to avoid ramp/riposte.... it would prevent us from using a extra atk stance but lets be honest... some dmg is better than no dmg.. currently i have to sit out on most ramp/ww mobs just because we dont have the healers/tanks to do them.. this is where rangers really sky rocket compared to rogs.. they usually out dps us normally but when we are stuck doing 0 dps its sadface.
i would really like to see this discussed more but also not to be greedy id also like to see possible dps alterations. not to mention im also really getting curious about how hide works at cap.. if its a % and whatnot... because if it is a % id have to guess it to be 50% or lower.
i would really like to see this discussed more but also not to be greedy id also like to see possible dps alterations. not to mention im also really getting curious about how hide works at cap.. if its a % and whatnot... because if it is a % id have to guess it to be 50% or lower.
futur3 said:
Yeah but having rogues avoid whirlwind and rampage is a good start to leveling the field between rogues,wizards, and rangers...
As for the whirlwind/rampage suggestion...don't make it another stance. Make it inherent to the class as a class defining ability. Make it so it only works while behind the mob of course, but make it so rogues behind mobs are immune to whirlwind/rampage. As it is, most people won't take a rogue over a wizard for DPS in most situations.
robopirateninja
Staff Emeritus
tinkaa said:
This might be viable on certain encounters/tiers whatever, but:
In my raiding expereince it is easier and more efficient to make melees ranged dps (SUMMON DAGGER BAG :toot
and burn down a ramp/ww mob than to ramp tank it, pretty much every single time.
Salarus
Dalayan Master
Draxx said:
That is what I was hoping for honestly, and about monks being left behind...monks can pull, that alone is hudge, so they really shoudln't have the same DPS as rogues/rangers. Honestly, a new stance like /s 11, but where you can actually dodge, *any* spells, and have the ability to compeltey avoid WW/ramapge woruld be perfect, and its what i'm hoping for
Magina said:
again not to be greedy, while i am hoping for this also, as not all rogs can ramp tank, i am also hoping the dps will be looked into also.
also would like any input on hide. that im aware of theres really not many options for high end hide modifier items.. spy's cloak is one of the only ones that comes to mind and using that on raids is sadface... i just know failing 5 hides in a row just rips my dps to pieces=/
Draxx said:
I think that is a great idea, as it fits perfectly in with the theme and roleplay aspect of the Rogue class.
But also...
tinkaa said:
So I don't think it would be a good idea to make it an innate part of the rogue, it would have to be something that could be toggled, like a stance.
Xardon said:
If it's a stance it should be a non-stamina draining stance then. Because really they need this to be worthwhile since their dps will greatly suffer if they have to move to ranged combat. Most rogues I know would not be a rampage tank... Sure there are exceptions, but I think rogue as a class is not designed to be a rampage tank.
Brimztone
Dalayan Elder
After the most recent patch many Rangers are saying how their Bow DPS was lowered. IIRC I heard that they altered the effect of arrows on DPS.
My question is, was Rogue backstab changed at all? I may be imagining things, but I have been seeing lower backstabs in general. Was backstab altered at all or has it been untouched and only Ranger's bow dps changed?
My question is, was Rogue backstab changed at all? I may be imagining things, but I have been seeing lower backstabs in general. Was backstab altered at all or has it been untouched and only Ranger's bow dps changed?
Wiz
NOT DONATING *EVER*
Arrow damage was lowered. Rogue DPS is unchanged. Here are some very elaborate parses done by Allie that show that post these changes, melee classes are pretty much aligned as we want them in relation to each other, sans a few possible tweaks. (It also shows how stupidly overpowered rangers were - and other parses from various people back these parses up very strongly)
Allielyn said: