Rogue Dps

Zaela said:
Give us a long list of your old backstabs (and not just the big ones).

The code is extremely simple for damage. If opening, use the damage it always uses. If sneak attack, use the damage it always uses, then add (damage/4) on top.
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gonna take a bit to filter through my log for them but il see what i can do!
 
Crynel said:
did some testing with the "new rogue things" and it seems to work in terms of the messages and the 100% accuracy when an opening happens.

as for the damage of the backstabs themselves....yeahhhh im not sure if its jsut awful luck or odd coding but overall the backstabs done via "sneak attack" seem to either not get the bonus or actualy do the reverse and lower damage done. i opened up my logs and the following is a general view of what i got:
3165, 2953, 3533, 4272, 2452, 3348, 1331, 2887, 8464, 2162, 2835, 2755, 6460, 1528, 5456, 2861, 3058, 3058, 7780, 6564, 1806, 8070, 3991, 1256, 1986, 4170, 1671.

as you can see these numbers seem rather low aside from the few that were over 5k (the 7 and 8k's were insidious stabs). the only explanation is either a bad code somewhere or some sor tof gear error causing the 4.3 poker to not be httign a sahrd as it should be (i doubt the stat patch thing that happened with this had any effect like this but never know)

as for the "got em'" hits i got as folows:
8088 (insid), 2574, 2000, 1547, 4556, 1133, 3502, 1266, 3924, 1044, 907, 1867, 3668, 3138, 1171, 1348, 2183, 3017, 1107, 1107, 2363, 1688, 1951, 2532, 801.

again it seems the BS damage is being reduced somehow which again either points to a bad code or backstabs in general being a bit wonky since patch.

for referance all of this testing was done with reinhardt via crac'tees and river alligators in remnants of old ikild.
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I did notice all this too in citadel, i would post parses but can't.. once i exp in another spot ill be sure to do so
 
In an effort to piggy-back on this wave of rogue motivation... how about changing the AA Skulking Visage into a straight hide modifier (or something that will make evade more reliable)? Leaves aggro management more up to the rogue instead of having a passive, sometimes undesirable, effect.
 
whelm said:
In an effort to piggy-back on this wave of rogue motivation... how about changing the AA Skulking Visage into a straight hide modifier (or something that will make evade more reliable)? Leaves aggro management more up to the rogue instead of having a passive, sometimes undesirable, effect.
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How did I end up back in the year 2006
 
with this change for sneak attacks, is it possible to jury rig a way to make it so it does not bug out when you attack something well in sneak, where you can hit the button says you start to sneak but doesn't actually work until the next time you hit it
 
You sneak, good to go.
You fight a mob, take an instance of damage. Sneak is broken.
Now if you hit sneak again to sneak, it will fail/bug out.
If you do it again after the failure it will work fine.
 
Zaela said:
Give us a long list of your old backstabs (and not just the big ones).

The code is extremely simple for damage. If opening, use the damage it always uses. If sneak attack, use the damage it always uses, then add (damage/4) on top.
Click to expand...

Perhaps it is just dividing all the damage, not the bonus damage? Either that, or perhaps sneak attack is ignoring +backstab from items?
I didn't have a ton of time to test it on my 54 rogue today, but I did a little against the Masked Rogue in erudin palace, because the mob always spawns the same level (that I now of), so no deviations based on level. It's a very small sample, but when I have more time, I will try to do a larger one. In two sneak attacks, he did 175 and 225. In two normal backstabs to start the fight, I did 420 and 405. For reference, my rogue's mainhand is Very Ssharp Leaf from OG (11/16) and has +12BS mod atm.
 
darksabbath said:
Perhaps it is just dividing all the damage, not the bonus damage? Either that, or perhaps sneak attack is ignoring +backstab from items?
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In the first case, unless the C++ conventions for arithmetic assignment suddenly changed in just that portion of the code, it's extremely unlikely. Plus it wouldn't explain the feeling that the damage is lower even when it's not sneak attacks. In the second one, all Backstabs use the same damage calculation other than the + (damage/4) for sneak attacks and a /2 earlier on for chaotic stabs, so that couldn't happen.

Without some really good parses I'm inclined to chalk this up to the fact that most rogues are probably biased towards remembering their high backstabs and don't really know what their average backstab damage is like.

I crunched some numbers for Reinhardt's Backstabs with things the way they are now. Against a fleeing crac`tee or a river aligator (the ones I checked had the same AC), and assuming Reinhardt had the buffs he had when I checked (relevantly Emp, Focus, Combine, and SV), and 111% total haste, his Backstab damage pre-crit would be (forewarning, I'm bad at math):

Min (no elem damage, lowest damage roll, maximum enemy AC reduction): 485
Max (elem damage, highest damage roll, minimum enemy AC reduction): 3861

Assuming a 27% chance to crit, 8% of which will be 4 times damage instead of 2 times damage, we can factor those in to average the min and max to:

Min: 485 + (485*24.84/100) + ((485*3)*2.16/100) = 636.902
Max: 3861 + (3861*24.84/100) + ((3861*3)*2.16/100) = 5070.2652

Ignoring the fact that I didn't calculate the chance for elemental damage to apply (probably higher than 50% in this case, so this will be below actual), the average Backstab damage against targets with the same AC would be 2853.5836

With a 25% bonus from Sneak Attack, that becomes 3566.9795

The average of the tiny sample set of Sneak Attacks Reinhardt posted is ~3698.9629 which is fairly close considering.


Whether any of this matches up to how things were before is an open question. But unless I screwed up something really subtle I don't think there are any confounding factors.
 
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Today I got a backstab for 425 with a sneak attack using a Sihk's hidden hand(.925 ratio) against an elthannar evoker... being a fully codex'd (28 tomes) rogue and playing since dec of 2006.. i feel violated hahaha, this shouldn't even be possible !
 
I only get numbers that low when I hit a runed mob, but I can't think of anything around there that would cast a rune. Weird.
 
Animand said:
I only get numbers that low when I hit a runed mob, but I can't think of anything around there that would cast a rune. Weird.
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Wizards do get a rune line and evoker seems like a wizard so that could in fact be the answer.
 
We'd have to get a dev to say for certain (and no, I'm not actually asking anyone to do that), but I'm fairly confident that what I'm seeing is that "an elthannar evoker" is capable of casting Manaskin, as Kiseble and others suggested might be the case.
 
It might have even caught an actual rune from one of the nameds. One of them is an enc right? I forget in my very old age.
 
Okay i guess that makes sense, thanks for the thought, it brought at least a little bit of my self esteem back
 
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