Rogue Dps
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Dimmi
Dalayan Elder
Or if you're super-bad-rogue, there's only one button and it turns on auto-attack and macros your backstabs.
In the most general sense though, Otcho's 100% right. If all you want to do is be horrible for a little bit, then amazing for a while, then just like everyone else at the end, rogue's a great class...but literally all you are good for is DPS. The class has 0 utility (unless you're one of the 3 1/2 people that do nadox?) what-so-ever, can't solo for crap (like especially at lower tiers, you stand a decent chance of being killed by some green cons, not even kidding), and brings one thing to the table: You can kill one mob at a time forever and ever and do it fairly well as long as you have the tanking and healing (for the tank) to support it.
In the most general sense though, Otcho's 100% right. If all you want to do is be horrible for a little bit, then amazing for a while, then just like everyone else at the end, rogue's a great class...but literally all you are good for is DPS. The class has 0 utility (unless you're one of the 3 1/2 people that do nadox?) what-so-ever, can't solo for crap (like especially at lower tiers, you stand a decent chance of being killed by some green cons, not even kidding), and brings one thing to the table: You can kill one mob at a time forever and ever and do it fairly well as long as you have the tanking and healing (for the tank) to support it.
Otcho
Dalayan Pious Diety
take rogue
do warrior thing
fixed
The class is boring as fuck, its overly reliant on a skill that gets fucked by mobile fights and anything with a slow mechanic. Your class mechanics poisons and traps are for the most part completely useless. So you are stuck mashing two buttons and hoping you don't have to move so you can output slightly better dps than the others. If you want to do something you better be ready to box or have a group do it for you.
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i remember making a chillville post about doing that for monks but it was bad
Otcho
Dalayan Pious Diety
Rogues need it more than monks. We have one real stance(/s 6) and the rest are useless or phased out by getting better(the spell dodge stance). Nimble is also good but everything else is useless.
i think that might be one more than monks
Otcho
Dalayan Pious Diety
Monks get 4. Maybe they use the other ones, I dunno.
(9) Raging Whirlwind 30 You lose double/triple attack but gain the ability to strike up to 4 nearby foes. (Does not work while wielding a Two-Handed Weapon)
(10) Wall of Will 35 You become immune to Fear, Charm, Mesmerization and gain an increase in all resistances.
(14) Ethereal Form 60 You become invulnerable until exhausted.
(15) Walk of the Transcendant 65 Your accuracy and avoidance are both increased.
Otcho
Dalayan Pious Diety
Also wipe recovery is kind of a joke on rogues. 40? Minute cooldown ontop of it being the thing that prevents you from dying if you somehow pull aggro/something goes horribly wrong. Not saying there aren't times where its relevant but it should not be counted for much. Unless your talking about the few times we can actually sneak/hide and ressurect a group then okay.
Otcho is right, we have only 1 type of damage, and poisons/traps are pretty much useless... poisons take up a buff slot and the effect on the majority of them are all horrible so there is no use for them on a raid.
Traps are a 4 minute recast which also sucks and is only good if you're in a exp group, i would never use a trap in a raid due to getting agro on a pull unless the tank can get it before it hits the trap (also traps get stuck in walls when they did the new pet change, to make pets spawn SW or w/e)
1 type of dps, to 1 mob, (auto attack, mash backstab, /s 6, cooldowns (if any) done)
Traps are a 4 minute recast which also sucks and is only good if you're in a exp group, i would never use a trap in a raid due to getting agro on a pull unless the tank can get it before it hits the trap (also traps get stuck in walls when they did the new pet change, to make pets spawn SW or w/e)
1 type of dps, to 1 mob, (auto attack, mash backstab, /s 6, cooldowns (if any) done)
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Dimmi
Dalayan Elder
Wipe recovery on a rogue means you either 1) Run into the Hmal Tunnels and /cm corpsecall and burn an urn or 2) Run into the corner between the golems and Claw Commander and /corpse your buddies and burn an urn.
At the higher tiers every fight involves a lot of movement, which rapes your DPS as a rogue. I've poo-poo'd other people for complaining about their DPS, but that's because DPS isn't literally all their class is good for.
Poisons/Traps: These were great in theory, but in practice they just aren't worth using. On very long fights, I would sometimes free up a buff slot for Greater Haemophelia so I could think I was doing my part with DoT weakening and get some "free damage" topping out at about the equivilant of a single auto-attack hit's worth. There are a few raid fights where traps can be set in advance (like before the mob activates) but mostly it's just a "got nothin better to do, might as well get that free extra 1300 or so damage and so some DoT WEAKENING! yeah!" On a lot of heavy movement fights, I'd also toss on a poison, and run in circles clicking my Splurt cape and Boil Blood cape and summon a green con skeleton pet and pretend I'm a necromancer because my purpose in life is non-existant.
-Actual Suggestion/Request: Poison making as a tradeskill would be nice to have finished, or at least to have the next tier of poisons. Something that's remotely relevant at 65 would be <3. Traps...I would like to see scale with focus effects, tomes, etc. (Currently on the DoT trap scales, as the DoT is attributed to the rogue and not the trap).
Survivability: Not so much a huge issue. In the raid-game, I think rogue survivability is about right. Escape could use some love in the form of a reduced cool-down, being sneak/hide instead of just invis, or clearing aggro in such a way as to not accidentilly waste your button push on the next tic (like stopping damage/clearing DoTs, etc)...or any combination of the three. As long as the rogue has a group with a tank of some kind who is surviving the mobs, he does very well. If you plan to duo or solo with a rogue, have fun it sucks.
Suggestion/Request - I really don't think there's much to be done here, but it would be neat if a successful Evade prevented you from taking melee damage for a round or something (with a higher failure rate than just dropping aggro) to give the rogue some kind of help in the solo area (so he can solo on at least some LBs without having to have tier 8+ gear etc).
Stances: (not taking into account the stamina recovery tome stance) Yeah most of them are awful. Rogues stay in /s 2 unless they are in /s 6 90% of the time. Nimble stance is useful in rare instances like when you want to go holler at the dinosaurs in emberflow or you're playing the 1% wipe game (I don't nimble then until I'm the last one, yeah I'm that jerk that will evade a mob onto a cleric b/c the cleric won't save me either way). I occassionally used the no hit from behind thing stance in FSK as a 65 rogue farming monkshood by sit-aggroing the entire zone and dropping a Blast Trap and bribing new players to loot the monkshood for me by letting them keep everything else. Spell dodge stance is useful early in the raid game before you have accumulated some resist gear. Double damage stance....ok I'll admit I used this a lot to farm impressive hits or for final burn phases that I knew weren't going to out-last my stamina, but only if I had clickies like Sraen banner to blow during the stance b/c /s 6 is way better DPS.
Suggestion/Request - obv everyone loves the warrior stamina thing, and rogues would benefit from his big time....seeing's how currently a rogue literally goes:
/s 2
/attack on
/mash the backstab button as fast as humanly possible (Rogues who use backstab macros should diaf)
/evade now and again
/click your yaulp hat b/c if you don't have one you suck
/troll ooc, make jokes in vent in robot-language, create ASCII art macros, bitch out the monks or bards for flipping the mob, do whatever you want as long as it doesn't break the massive amount of concentration needed to mash backstab over and over.
Also because I literally forgot it existed for a minute:
Sensing and Disarming Traps - I hear it's nice. My sense traps is like 27 and I don't care and never will.
Some of these suggestions are absolutely awful and I know it.
At the higher tiers every fight involves a lot of movement, which rapes your DPS as a rogue. I've poo-poo'd other people for complaining about their DPS, but that's because DPS isn't literally all their class is good for.
Poisons/Traps: These were great in theory, but in practice they just aren't worth using. On very long fights, I would sometimes free up a buff slot for Greater Haemophelia so I could think I was doing my part with DoT weakening and get some "free damage" topping out at about the equivilant of a single auto-attack hit's worth. There are a few raid fights where traps can be set in advance (like before the mob activates) but mostly it's just a "got nothin better to do, might as well get that free extra 1300 or so damage and so some DoT WEAKENING! yeah!" On a lot of heavy movement fights, I'd also toss on a poison, and run in circles clicking my Splurt cape and Boil Blood cape and summon a green con skeleton pet and pretend I'm a necromancer because my purpose in life is non-existant.
-Actual Suggestion/Request: Poison making as a tradeskill would be nice to have finished, or at least to have the next tier of poisons. Something that's remotely relevant at 65 would be <3. Traps...I would like to see scale with focus effects, tomes, etc. (Currently on the DoT trap scales, as the DoT is attributed to the rogue and not the trap).
Survivability: Not so much a huge issue. In the raid-game, I think rogue survivability is about right. Escape could use some love in the form of a reduced cool-down, being sneak/hide instead of just invis, or clearing aggro in such a way as to not accidentilly waste your button push on the next tic (like stopping damage/clearing DoTs, etc)...or any combination of the three. As long as the rogue has a group with a tank of some kind who is surviving the mobs, he does very well. If you plan to duo or solo with a rogue, have fun it sucks.
Suggestion/Request - I really don't think there's much to be done here, but it would be neat if a successful Evade prevented you from taking melee damage for a round or something (with a higher failure rate than just dropping aggro) to give the rogue some kind of help in the solo area (so he can solo on at least some LBs without having to have tier 8+ gear etc).
Stances: (not taking into account the stamina recovery tome stance) Yeah most of them are awful. Rogues stay in /s 2 unless they are in /s 6 90% of the time. Nimble stance is useful in rare instances like when you want to go holler at the dinosaurs in emberflow or you're playing the 1% wipe game (I don't nimble then until I'm the last one, yeah I'm that jerk that will evade a mob onto a cleric b/c the cleric won't save me either way). I occassionally used the no hit from behind thing stance in FSK as a 65 rogue farming monkshood by sit-aggroing the entire zone and dropping a Blast Trap and bribing new players to loot the monkshood for me by letting them keep everything else. Spell dodge stance is useful early in the raid game before you have accumulated some resist gear. Double damage stance....ok I'll admit I used this a lot to farm impressive hits or for final burn phases that I knew weren't going to out-last my stamina, but only if I had clickies like Sraen banner to blow during the stance b/c /s 6 is way better DPS.
Suggestion/Request - obv everyone loves the warrior stamina thing, and rogues would benefit from his big time....seeing's how currently a rogue literally goes:
/s 2
/attack on
/mash the backstab button as fast as humanly possible (Rogues who use backstab macros should diaf)
/evade now and again
/click your yaulp hat b/c if you don't have one you suck
/troll ooc, make jokes in vent in robot-language, create ASCII art macros, bitch out the monks or bards for flipping the mob, do whatever you want as long as it doesn't break the massive amount of concentration needed to mash backstab over and over.
Also because I literally forgot it existed for a minute:
Sensing and Disarming Traps - I hear it's nice. My sense traps is like 27 and I don't care and never will.
Some of these suggestions are absolutely awful and I know it.
I don't think I'm allowed to make another class use warrior-like abilities before we have a fully-functional Combat Ability window (in 3.0). It's one of the points against arcane knights. Having to use /s and not be able to see a little buttoned greyed out during reuse time is not acceptable (except for warriors).
As long as this is turning into a generalized rogue suggestions thing involving three people, 3-ish things:
Way back when Cyzaine had the idea of making poisons go in the ammo slot and proc from there, losing 1 charge each time they do proc. He put in some code for that but never really went anywhere with it; there were some problems with the idea (namely 1 proc per charge would be way less bang for the buck than it is now) and having that functionality sitting there was too tempting so there might be too many high-end ammo slot melee proc items to revisit that idea, but... well, I thought it was worth mentioning as an idea I guess. There might be a workable non-buffslot-eating way to work with poisons. Make them do something if you have them in your main inventory?
I kind of liked the idea of that level 10 front-stab style, other than it being too random and sucky. Watching their foe for openings seems like a really rogue thing to do. Maybe a non-random system that allows rogues to see and respond to openings--say, when a target misses a kick or bash and so exposes themselves, or starts casting a spell, or gets stunned, or switches targets from the tank to someone else who isn't the rogue and is thus "distracted", or takes a big crit from someone else, etc. I guess the thing to do would be to give Backstabs bonus damage of some kind if the rogue reacts quickly and does it during these windows, but making it sufficiently rewarding for rogues to not hammer backstab as fast as possible without making it too powerful might be tough to swing.
One more, rogues are the unofficial kings of throwing I guess, but they don't have a lot to show for it. Definitely wouldn't want to turn them into shorter-range Rangers, but I could see throwing being made better earlier on and maybe giving it some special effects that would make it worth tossing something as you approach a foe or disengaging from one target to toss something at another (thrown knockout thingy that stuns a target if it hits them from behind..?). Not many substantive ideas there though.
edit: also the first backstab from a sneaking rogue should do bonus damage and give no aggro, cuz striking from the shadows and all that.
edit2: rogues should gain an accuracy bonus/increasingly ignore dodge the longer they're focusing on a target/the more they exploit openings, as they get used to the target's "rhythm." Oh, and a backstab during an opening shouldn't be able to miss at all.
Way back when Cyzaine had the idea of making poisons go in the ammo slot and proc from there, losing 1 charge each time they do proc. He put in some code for that but never really went anywhere with it; there were some problems with the idea (namely 1 proc per charge would be way less bang for the buck than it is now) and having that functionality sitting there was too tempting so there might be too many high-end ammo slot melee proc items to revisit that idea, but... well, I thought it was worth mentioning as an idea I guess. There might be a workable non-buffslot-eating way to work with poisons. Make them do something if you have them in your main inventory?
I kind of liked the idea of that level 10 front-stab style, other than it being too random and sucky. Watching their foe for openings seems like a really rogue thing to do. Maybe a non-random system that allows rogues to see and respond to openings--say, when a target misses a kick or bash and so exposes themselves, or starts casting a spell, or gets stunned, or switches targets from the tank to someone else who isn't the rogue and is thus "distracted", or takes a big crit from someone else, etc. I guess the thing to do would be to give Backstabs bonus damage of some kind if the rogue reacts quickly and does it during these windows, but making it sufficiently rewarding for rogues to not hammer backstab as fast as possible without making it too powerful might be tough to swing.
One more, rogues are the unofficial kings of throwing I guess, but they don't have a lot to show for it. Definitely wouldn't want to turn them into shorter-range Rangers, but I could see throwing being made better earlier on and maybe giving it some special effects that would make it worth tossing something as you approach a foe or disengaging from one target to toss something at another (thrown knockout thingy that stuns a target if it hits them from behind..?). Not many substantive ideas there though.
edit: also the first backstab from a sneaking rogue should do bonus damage and give no aggro, cuz striking from the shadows and all that.
edit2: rogues should gain an accuracy bonus/increasingly ignore dodge the longer they're focusing on a target/the more they exploit openings, as they get used to the target's "rhythm." Oh, and a backstab during an opening shouldn't be able to miss at all.
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Silosobi
Dalayan Pious Diety
Yes! Zaela makes such amazing things that make the game more fun!
Ya i 3rd this opinion