Save everyone some work and just raise banker fees, if this is to increase the "cash sink". There's nothing wrong with buffbots, I view it as part of SoD, much like boxing 2 chars. I mean true the durations could all be lowered, but then all content would need to be re-balanced to just achieve the same difficulty, so why bother?
Reagents
- Thread starter Hillary
- Start date
cornelweezy
Dalayan Elder
I like this idea. Remove the mage summoned gems and replace them with mage summoned minor-lesser-standard-major-greater spellstones/crystalmana/whatever and have them available from inn vendors or basic merchants. The reagent could even have some kind of alternative benefit than just a reagent that may encourage players to have some on them even if they aren't just casting buffs, like a short duration mana regen buff or a canni-like click or an effect that lowers strength/dex/sta but raises charisma/int/wis or something else castery.
you mean like copper/silver/gold/platinum bars? huh.
darksabbath
Dalayan Master
How does replacing one reagent with another solve anything???
Aside for a few durations, the buffs are fine as is. I even understand requiring one for Savage, as it is a nice buff. (But so is Raego, etc.)
Aside for a few durations, the buffs are fine as is. I even understand requiring one for Savage, as it is a nice buff. (But so is Raego, etc.)
reagents are fine as is. if anything, i like the idea of spells lasting longer when the real gem is used as opposed to the summoned one. reminds me of a certain quest that claims summoned food is not very good for you so the quest giver wants the real stuff. oh and the idea of getting rid of buff bots, yeah shut up already there is no real issue there.
Nuvian
Nuvian
So, play the Enchanter for some JB, what I have suggested only keeps you from logging on a character with max duration inc duration AAs and that hasn't actually been played in years etc
You can *play* the characters that are buffing you or the characters can actually be *played* by someone else and you can donate for there time or be friends with them etc etc, balance it so rebalancing wont be needed
But FFS quit talking about buffbots as though getting rid of them will be the end of the world, you could go... find an Ench etc to get those buffs rather then logging one on
Thade
DINOSAUR THADE
What part of content is balanced around these buffs and having to lug an entire group around to get the buffs we are missing is an unnecessary burden and frustration is too hard to understand?
Also 90% of the buffbots we use are active characters in FWF. So yeah. your point of "find this class!!!" Is moot.
Rorne
The sad fish is a reactionary creature; an enemy o
Well no, making a class required for a bunch of shit is not a solution at all. We can see how much that rules already with A) Clerics and B) Bards.
Neah - what Thade is saying I 100% agree with.
Anything that would reduce the time needed to buff a box/group/raid would be welcome in my opinion, messing about with reagents would only complicate the matter.
Nobody has mentioned reagent conservation items either in this thread, RC8 is 95% iirc, so it wont solve the cash sink issue.
If buffs were to drop if that class was removed from your group, or a person left the group to pickup another person temporarily and port him/her to the raid, then that would just be another headache and more downtime to rebuff.
A good percentage of peoples time on SoD is spent buffing, instead of progressing. Please dont make reagents another factor, they are fine as they are.
EDIT: As a cash sink, where are the 2.4 mill charms?
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Okay... Who said make it drop when you zone or anything along those lines? Who, if 90% of the buffbots you use in FWF are active, this would effect you 10%...
Who said drop the durations?
Who said you *have* to take said class along with you for your 6man contect
I know what I said, and thats to get rid of in-active buffbots
and great point on reagent con maybe that should be nerfed down to something a bit more reasonable or left as-is and take that into account when figuring out the drop rate to make it a *much* more desirable focus effect
No one is saying you have to bring that Enchanter for you freakin buffs, what I am saying is that enchanter should actually be a player who is active and it costs them/you something to have a spell cast beyond mana
Who said drop the durations?
Who said you *have* to take said class along with you for your 6man contect
I know what I said, and thats to get rid of in-active buffbots
and great point on reagent con maybe that should be nerfed down to something a bit more reasonable or left as-is and take that into account when figuring out the drop rate to make it a *much* more desirable focus effect
No one is saying you have to bring that Enchanter for you freakin buffs, what I am saying is that enchanter should actually be a player who is active and it costs them/you something to have a spell cast beyond mana
tinkaa
*fake Tinkerbell*
People bot other characters, because it's more convenient and in lot of cases also fun. You already know and don't need to be taught which mobs to avoid, what needs dispelling, what debuff to cure, can keep up with the pace of the group.
Is it fair? Maybe not, but we've all been there, done that.
Being in a guild, joining PU raids and not commenting on someone's prices, playstyle or attitude in /ooc without even knowing them is useful for making friends.
Moraelintz
Dalayan Elder
Isnt taking the time to accquire relic spells a big enough time sink? If you are not in a higher tiered guild that is backgearring that should be considered enough of a 'time' sink to even get your s[ells. Think about if you have to PUG all of your relics how long it takes to actually get them, and then to have to farm something on top of that to use the spells is a bit much imo.
Ya know, I'm no expert, as I only played Live and now this mmorpg-wise. Otherwise I've just grown up and final fantasies and such. That being said, you can hop on most games and actually get anything done in minutes. This game sometimes you log in and do nothing for hours. You might spend days before actually getting something accomplished. Hell sometimes it takes 30 min. to an hour just getting folks together, loading up buffs, getting to where you're going, etc. before you even start doing anything at all. Most other games you might have logged off after an hour already. Why would anyone argue anything to make this game take that much longer?? So many "solutions" presented lately could also be aka-ed as "ways to make this game a little more of a pain in the ass". As much time as we spend on it you'd think besides minor details we'd be pretty cool with the way it was.
Moraelintz
Dalayan Elder
The biggest problem I have with adding/changing the reagents is your are restricting/reducing the effectiveness of what some classes major functions or peaks are.
For instance:
Clerics - they do raego and heal and good ones melee
Shamans - Buff, slow, patch heal, canni forever
Enc - jb, haste, rune, and mez
Part of playing these classes are spells that define the class. Some very beneficial spells allready have spell components all PURCHASEBALE and most summonable by a mage. Requiring to farm in order to use an ability to me seams absurd. I can understand needing to spend a few pp's to cast a very nice spell, (DB, summoned pet gear, RAIDWIDE planes port, Raego - if no mage around) but to make you farm to get gems to cast spells is a bit much.
If you start requiring farmed spell components for these why not also add requirements to bash, taunt, double attack and duel wield.
If you are upset about buff bots then do not use them.
If you are upset about not having buff bots make more friends, join a guild, or level one up.
If you are looking for more of cash sinks how about raising the banker fees or adding even another high pp charm.
For instance:
Clerics - they do raego and heal and good ones melee
Shamans - Buff, slow, patch heal, canni forever
Enc - jb, haste, rune, and mez
Part of playing these classes are spells that define the class. Some very beneficial spells allready have spell components all PURCHASEBALE and most summonable by a mage. Requiring to farm in order to use an ability to me seams absurd. I can understand needing to spend a few pp's to cast a very nice spell, (DB, summoned pet gear, RAIDWIDE planes port, Raego - if no mage around) but to make you farm to get gems to cast spells is a bit much.
If you start requiring farmed spell components for these why not also add requirements to bash, taunt, double attack and duel wield.
If you are upset about buff bots then do not use them.
If you are upset about not having buff bots make more friends, join a guild, or level one up.
If you are looking for more of cash sinks how about raising the banker fees or adding even another high pp charm.
Not entirely true... haven't thought this completely through, but: Buff Duration = 10% of normal time if amount of experience gained in the past month on the toon is less then 2 million xp (a touch longer 2x 2 hour group at Citadel? idk the real numbers). Then have it graduated up based on how much xp gained in the past month. Make it reasonable for casual toons to have full duration, but make it a pain to keep old toons around just for buffs.
This at least gets rid of the 4x enchanters/shamans/clerics/mages/druids people have if their guild is more than a year old. You may also want to nerf sta regen along the same lines to make it unattractive to keep melee bots around as well.
Two problems come to mind with this, otherwise I like that an approach I don't think has been offered before has just been offered here. The first problem being, whats to stop people from just boxing in their buff bots x times a month over a mained toon in xp groups just so they are able to buff for that month with them. People are selfish as hell, and I can totally see this happening. Second being that even if that weren't the case and this worked as intended, I would then have to hand out info's to everyone in my guild. Right now I can name 3 people on the server that have my infos, for the off chance that my internet goes out or I'm unable to make a raid so someone can play Stral. Me being an active player doesn't mean I'm ok with people using my toon as a buff bot while I'm at work or just not online.
Clearly we should just implement a shame based deterrent. If a system like that were implemented to check xp, it should just make an automated surname change to USES INACTIVE BUFFBOTS, or USES INACTIVE RINGERS. x hours later make an automated revert to whatever their surname was. I think some variation on this would be absolutely hilarious.
On the other hand, being anti-social, a dick, and about 50% terrible will get you through just fine. I mean shit, look what it did for me.
Boehm
Dalayan Elder
So synopsis of the outcome;
- Most players would roll with KEI or perform yet another tedious solo grind.
- I would have all the relic buffs I want.
- Wizs and mages would take it on the chin. Arguably most hybrid classes as well.
- Bards, Shaman, and Necros would be EVEN MORE DESIRABLE.
Desirable beyond the point of game breaking.
- You would be proposing more nerfs/changes to force players to bring chanters to all content.
I, also, don't see buff bots as a problem. Any good guild or group would prefer a live class member. I do, however, think buff timers could use a review.
- Most players would roll with KEI or perform yet another tedious solo grind.
- I would have all the relic buffs I want.
- Wizs and mages would take it on the chin. Arguably most hybrid classes as well.
- Bards, Shaman, and Necros would be EVEN MORE DESIRABLE.
Desirable beyond the point of game breaking.
- You would be proposing more nerfs/changes to force players to bring chanters to all content.
I, also, don't see buff bots as a problem. Any good guild or group would prefer a live class member. I do, however, think buff timers could use a review.
Really? You only use those classes for those roles?
If that's how you see it you're saying you want more offensive abilities of those classes? Or more passive group/raid abilities?
As an enc I can say:
GoG, AoD, Vex, Slow, Dot (MotS), Tash, Curses, Mez, Rune... And you wonder why we always run OOM. now i have my .5 second nuke shield no recast so I can just click that forever but still.
Moraelintz
Dalayan Elder
And how would it make you feel if you had to farm something in order to cast each spell?
Farm something to cast each one? Well you already need to "Farm" the spell, and the quest for Murk Spells isn't the most ideal thing to do, however that's part of the game.
The only regent spells enc has is Rune. And as I've said - remove the reagent from it. It's a pain. It's not needed. If anything, put in a Stamina loss with spells that need reagents, and remove the reagent. that way there's still a trade off.
Moraelintz
Dalayan Elder
I completely agree with you. I think for those spells that need reagents add a stamina loss instead and it would be great.