phroggonalog
Dalayan Master
Bango let's group more
Paladin single target aggro.
- Thread starter Snake
- Start date
Bango let's group more
Boehm
Dalayan Elder
Brief stars burn the brightest.
narmarratuk
Dalayan Adventurer
Thank you Thade, that was a more productive post. Honestly the only melee DPS that bothers me when I play my paladin are monks, often times I just don't group with them because of that issue. Also I think rather than give those melee classes more ways to get themselves off agro is to increase the agro on single target pally will be a much easier approach, maybe adding more neg agro on melee DPS table for their gear, as is I think I seen more caster gear with neg agro than melee DPS or maybe they are more easy to come by. Also often times monks have big egos and they like to pull agro as they want to tank, or maybe they just get bored....
Which is odd tbh, because we can lose agro the easiest imo.
I kinda want more options with positive agro for when I do tank tbh (not enough to ever bring it up unless provoked though, lol).
Guilty, lol. Bad habit left over from live. (We can still just get rid of the agro though. If you actually have a monk dying from this, it's an issue with that monk, not a class issue...)
(I'm kind of playing devil's advocate here. I still think it's too easy to steal agro from paladins.)
jew_nose_it
Dalayan Master
As far as I can tell I still pull aggro with -8 agression as easily as without it, I don't really know how much of a difference it makes.
I'm surprised this point didn't get brought up to light much throughout this thread. Mana cost on aggro spells is the only thing I've seen from pallies that I can see maybe justifying a tweak atm. My perspective may be skewed on this, so rather than ranting about it, do any other mained pallies find this to be the case throughout the tiers in on-tier xp groups? And if so what is a typical spell rotation for you for aggro (to root out player error).
Miffy
Dalayan Adventurer
After the change to SK agro spells Paladins must cast A LOT more spells than SK's for half the agro... just saying... With lag and gem refresh it is a real issue and limits the utility of the Paladin. Also, how is it a part of the class to need to spam more and more abilities for less and less comparative agro the higher tier you get?
The real issue is nothing to do with Paladins but really the problem with pure agro modifying spells in SoD and how they do not scale like DPS does. Blind does the same agro at 55 as at tier 10, same with jolt, concussion etc. the reason SK's don't have any issue is simply that their aggro spells generate SO MUCH agro that they have yet to be outclassed by high tier DPS. The simple fact is managing agro becomes more and more difficult for both knights the higher tier they get. The Dev's must see this as an issue or they would not have made both new paladin spells agro related.
Simple solutions:
Tomes of power increase the effect of agro modifiying spells by 20%
More new tomes to increase/reduce agro by a substantial ammount
@Stral I never have an issue with mana IF I cast nothing but agro spells, when I fight undead and use my nukes, or when I cast ghots or cast descending judgement every fight then yes I run out of mana well before the healer. There is nothing wrong with the mana cost of the spells themselves its just that as soon as blind is up you are going to chain it and chain in wave of light which gives you a bonus blinding light.... that starts eating up mana quickly and at higher tiers you MUST chain all possible agro spells in my experience.
Spell rotation looks something like Blinding Light->Divine stun->Wave of Light->Blinding Light->Divine stun repeat indeffinitely until fight is over AoE for undead AoE stun if its a large multipull but really the resist rate is too high on anything other than blind in spots like BQ, bashing the whole time of course... don't even want to get into the problems with bash as an agro mechanic....
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Thade
DINOSAUR THADE
I just wanted to point out that bard jolt scales with wind mod, but has it's own slew of problems. Mostly that it takes a detrimental spell slot to use.
Cyzaine
Staff Emeritus
This is not true. The scaling it does do leaves alot to be desired, but unless it SAYS in the spell parser that it gives a set amount of hate, it is NOT a set amount of hate all throughout.
Obscenitor
Dalayan Elder
hit points
Salarus
Dalayan Master
Wow you're awsome
Seriously though, pleaseeeeeee? There are so many different aggro things I want to test! Primarily, I want to see what SK/War/Pal do with normal raid buffs on/with shields on for knights. Also, leaving them in would help upcoming tanks learn how to play their class better, as they could come and test out aggro setups. I know that before this event, there was a certain high tier paladin that wasn't aware AoE blind overwrote ST blind for more aggro, and then ST blind overwrote AoE blind for even more. And i'm pretty sure he didn't believe me till he tested it.
Miffy
Dalayan Adventurer
Yeah I guess what I meant was if it was cast on the same mob, it does not scale (or perhaps just very poorly?) with the character thats casting it and that is my issue with it. I remember a while back it scaled too much, as in if you cast it on mobs in Emberflow it was crazy ass agro, I don't even know what it sclaes off of anymore and was made to believe it was no longer HP of the mob. In any case, agro being limited by the mob causes problems when DPS agro continues to rise while blind agro stays fixed. Perhaps this is truly a paladin problem since warrior agro rises regardless of the mob and shadow knight agro is simply at a fixed very high point along with some damaging spells that scale. Maybe it is simply the mechanic of blind agro that needs to be looked at once again and retuned. Also, I am under the impression that stun agro does not scale so divine stun becomes less and less powerful the higher tier you are which seems like a poor mechanic. Please correct me if I am wrong, I have not played with the little dummy enough to draw any solid conclusions about how Stun(without dmg) and blind really function.
Obscenitor
Dalayan Elder
WAS IT YOU??
Salarus
Dalayan Master
No. Ill give you a hint. He has tits in game, and may be getting a protractor in the mail soon so that he understands how conal nukes work.
Just to add another main reawon as to why; the numbers from the aggro comp were skewed by unrealistic buff and weapon setups for knights in an attempt to win. For me, 24k aggro was with a 2 hander, unrealistic buffs, and burning 100% of my mana in 60 seconds. Shield/real buffs/sustainable spells came nowhere near that.
Just to add another main reawon as to why; the numbers from the aggro comp were skewed by unrealistic buff and weapon setups for knights in an attempt to win. For me, 24k aggro was with a 2 hander, unrealistic buffs, and burning 100% of my mana in 60 seconds. Shield/real buffs/sustainable spells came nowhere near that.
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Thade
DINOSAUR THADE
hahahahahaha
Obscenitor
Dalayan Elder
As I sit in my office hating life while waiting for a conference call with accountants on the west coast that have no problems understanding Elimination of Unrealized Profit on Intercompany Sales of Property and Equipment but cannot comprehend time zones... this brings a smile to my face...