Nurf Buff duration

How bout this:

Classes get auras for active grouping, and buffs get changed to something like mod rods. Clicky lore items with charges of that buff.

Change duration increment to add 1 extra charge per level. Speeds up buffing might only have to summon new ones every few days, could be used anywhere to rebuff or after a wipe.

Base 3 charges per cast plus 1 for each duration increment.

Could make non lore and sellable but I think lore keeps it cleaner.

Could add vendors for basic ones as well maybe 3 charge defaults.
 
Dinadass said:
Uh I have essentially most of FWF and assorted other buffbots at my disposal, I never have an issue buffing myself. I just don't really see why it's necessary or enjoy doing it.
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then dont buff yourself. nobody is telling you that you have to have raego, rfocus, SV, GOE etc to exp. remnants crocodiles will still be an option to exp.

But you dont want to exp on remnants crocodiles. You want to exp killing as many mobs as you can with the least amount of effort. If you want to min max then you need buffs.
 
Woogie526 said:
How bout this:

Classes get auras for active grouping, and buffs get changed to something like mod rods. Clicky lore items with charges of that buff.
.
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The buffing classes aren't complaining about buffing its only classes who do not buff. I'm sure that w/ soulbind, duration inc no buffing class is really complaining about buffing.
 
Krugz said:
Tier 1 does not even exist anymore hello ikisith droppable gear thats like t4 so whats your point now?
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You are better off raiding ikisith dungeons for dropable gear with pristine stats. Then raiding T1-3 targets.

Not to get to off track. I still think getting rid of buffs from people that arn't in the group/raid is the best way to do this.
 
I play a buffing class and wouldn't mind summoning a focus clicky, relIc stats clicky and being done. Then ask me later when it runs out for more.

Then I don't need to worry bout putting focus on someone who doesn't want it and having them wig out. Or rebuffing after a debuffing mob etc.

Or go to a noob zone and hook folks up with some clickies.

There is no reason to not make the game easier or quicker to play other than "Back in my day" reasoning.

mulcis
 
Mulcis has scribed:
Relic: Essence of the Wild
Relic: Essence of Tarhansar
Ancient: Gift of Celerity
Ancient: Slumber of the Beast

What "clicky" will you be giving them sir?

Like i said before. If a buff bot is to be considered it should be non relic versions of spells.

Make the actual class cast the buff that is worth wild so its an advantage of having one in your group / arsenal.
 
My system would make my relic stats spells summon a clicky with 8 charges of the spell. I have duration 5 atm. And I would happily give that out to 45+ characters.

Make all buffs work like that, not just end game ones. Doesn't even have to be a vendor system. Player casts a buff, everyone grouped or raided gets a clicky with charges of the buff. Move On with playing.

Edit: damn you autocorrect.
 
Woogie526 said:
Make all buffs work like that, not just end game ones. Doesn't even have to be a vendor system. Player casts a buff, everyone grouped or raided gets a clicky with charges of the buff. Move On with playing.
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Goodbye bag space. As much as I like the clicky idea, I do not think this is the route to go to solve the buff issue that is presented.

Edit: Though a no rent, unlimited charge clicky would be too cool and overpowering.

I'd have to agree with Nebi on the buff bot route tho, non-relic versions. Currently, the *issue* with buff bots is availability, so non-relic versions being available 100% of the time should be good enough for any exp group. (Since raids are going to have those buffs anyways, provided by the characters on the raid.)
 
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Breigon said:
Goodbye bag space. As much as I like the clicky idea, I do not think this is the route to go to solve the buff issue that is presented.
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Maybe they implement a 20 slot bag that only holds buffs. You lose one bag spot.

Or

Could probably do something with a /cm /cm buffs list how many charges you have summoned to you d1 d2 to use said buff.

/shrug.
 
I wouldn't make them no rent. If goal is to decrease downtime would be nice if hey were there when you logged on.
 
I think its dumb that buff botting is considered the norm. All groups meet in Athica for people to log on other peoples chars and SB every major buff before going to group. I'm not crying fowl on this I"m claiming outdated mechanics. It only gets worse with the landfill of retired characters. For every person that plays SoD they have access to at least 4-5 Retired/inactive chars.
 
Titanas said:
. It only gets worse with the landfill of retired characters. For every person that plays SoD they have access to at least 4-5 Retired/inactive chars.
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Seems you're mad about Ringo and Gonobn. One could make a case that those 2 characters have helped more sod newbies than any buff bot would.
 
For once I agree with deein, the problem is not with buffs or with buff bots it is with people's attitudes that they need max buffs everywhere they go for everything they do. If that is you then it is your choice to spend the time to buff yourself. The only time full buffs are essential is when you are breaking into new content and pushing the envelope.

If you add Buff bots I hope you change the spells for those classes so they get something beneficial as there would be no need for them to obtain the spells anymore. Why try and get the spell when you could spend a minimum amount of pp and get it yourself especially when most buffs cast by the class do not directly benefit said class as much as it does others.
 
Personal ideas and opinions.

No, you don't have to use the buffs, but when has that mattered really? I can't remember a time when Thade and I went out to exp where we didn't do the buff bot dance before leaving town. And you know what? It was a pain in the ass, and it wasn't fun even when things went right (omg taru don't cast rbow yet!) I suppose "if you don't like it, lump it" is always valid argument here, but also I think that too many uninformed players get in trouble for 3-box-LD over buffs. Full raid buffs aren't necessary for XP, but it IS common practice for people who have them available and saying otherwise is just bullshit.

I've been thinking about this on and off all day and the best solution I could see was to add a utility NPC to the Majordomo that could be added to the player house. This NPC would have 15 "buff slots" that could be set by any player character. If you spoke to the NPC with a cleric, for instance, you could chose from a list of cleric buffs and it would check if the cleric had the buff, if they have SB (and if so ask if the buff SHOULD be SB) before assigning it to a slot. Any slot should probably become reset after a period of time (maybe a day to a week.) This would still require anyone using this system to have access to the buffs and would be only accessible in town, but would reduce the number of times a person would have to log on their personal buff army. This would function kind of like a short-term Public Storage for buffs. It create a system that would make buffing simpler (once your buff list is set, buffing would take a matter of seconds) and would also avoid the bag slot issues other suggestions have faced which used clickies.

I know one of the many arguments against NPC buff bots in the past has been that (relic) buffs are valuable and this would cut into player income. That said, players could still sell their buffing services individually as they do now or potentially for a increased fee to save them at a player's House (though this would certainly diminish their value.) Another is the value of the class to a group, but with the limitations of house keys, this I think this would only effect players doing their town buffs.
 
Rari said:
Personal ideas and opinions.

No, you don't have to use the buffs, but when has that mattered really? I can't remember a time when Thade and I went out to exp where we didn't do the buff bot dance before leaving town. And you know what? It was a pain in the ass, and it wasn't fun even when things went right (omg taru don't cast rbow yet!) I suppose "if you don't like it, lump it" is always valid argument here, but also I think that too many uninformed players get in trouble for 3-box-LD over buffs. Full raid buffs aren't necessary for XP, but it IS common practice for people who have them available and saying otherwise is just bullshit.

I've been thinking about this on and off all day and the best solution I could see was to add a utility NPC to the Majordomo that could be added to the player house. This NPC would have 15 "buff slots" that could be set by any player character. If you spoke to the NPC with a cleric, for instance, you could chose from a list of cleric buffs and it would check if the cleric had the buff, if they have SB (and if so ask if the buff SHOULD be SB) before assigning it to a slot. Any slot should probably become reset after a period of time (maybe a day to a week.) This would still require anyone using this system to have access to the buffs and would be only accessible in town, but would reduce the number of times a person would have to log on their personal buff army. This would function kind of like a short-term Public Storage for buffs. It create a system that would make buffing simpler (once your buff list is set, buffing would take a matter of seconds) and would also avoid the bag slot issues other suggestions have faced which used clickies.

I know one of the many arguments against NPC buff bots in the past has been that (relic) buffs are valuable and this would cut into player income. That said, players could still sell their buffing services individually as they do now or potentially for a increased fee to save them at a player's House (though this would certainly diminish their value.) Another is the value of the class to a group, but with the limitations of house keys, this I think this would only effect players doing their town buffs.
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This would be great for those of us (me) who don't pay for buffs and don't have access to any buff bots! This would also make life much more fun than waiting in Sadri/Athica for a group member to log in a buff bot army...
 
(More personal opinion. Also maybe someone has already posted this idea, I haven't read much in here.)

I don't ever see it happening, but if we did want to get rid of buffs altogether I think the least labor-intensive and most organic way to rebalance the game in a world with no buffs would be to create an algorithm (or algorithms) to roll buff stats into items. Outside of damage shields and maybe runes and some other things I can't think of, stats from the major buffs are all things that could be put on items, like HP, AC, core stats like STR, ATK, Resists, Haste and Flowing Thought. By making item haste values much higher, raising the FT cap and making both more widespread from the earliest levels, haste buffs and clarity/JB could be done away with. Or if we wanted to avoid people being able to horde unusually large amounts of those early on, we could just make the haste and clarity buffs into worn effects that people would hunt for in the same way as focus effects or worn acumen. Things like AC and HP should be relatively easy to put into items, without necessarily losing the jump you would get in moving from Aego to Relic Aego around tier 5 or so, for example.

Anyway just a thought that came to mind. Rebalancing items as a whole would probably be less of a headache than rebalancing every encounter in the game one by one. Though still difficult. And not necessarily attractive.

edit -- just for a concrete example of how this could be done:

Let's say at tier 6 we assume everyone would have had Relic Aego, SSS and Relic Focus for HP buffs. Together these are worth 2085 HP. So we split those across the slots, perhaps like this:

Chest: 200
Legs: 175
Arms: 150
Back: 125
Head: 125
Other non-weapon slots: 100 (x12)

2H Primaries: 110
1H Primary and Secondary: 55 each

So we simply add these HP values to all equipable items that drop from tier 6 and above. Every chest gets an extra 200 HP, every helm gets an extra 125 HP, and so on. Similar standardized division would be done for the other stats. For tiers below 6, values would be recalculated from pre-Relic HP buffs. And for things you can get before level 60 it would be recalculated based on the buffs you could expect to have at reasonable levels to have the item, whether it is purchasable or dropped from Adepts or simple tmaps, etc. Not super complicated, at least.
 
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Couldn't something less drastic be done like splitting off a portion of buff stats and giving it to players innately? I mean the reason something like Aegolism is such a problem is because the benefit it gives is so immense, you'd be stupid not to have it on you. Dependence on it might change if it instead only gave you a fraction of that. Players might be more willing to forego it under exping circumstances if it only gave something like 300hp. You could combine this with a revamp of Duration Inc and buff durations in general, make them all longer lasting and change Duration Inc into a focus that amplifies buff stats (whether this could be done through scripting or it would require X Buff Ver I-V or whatever I don't know) so you would also have buff scaling throughout the tiers. You could also make obtaining relics easier since their potency would no longer be front-loaded.
 
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