Mantle of the Forest Overpowered

[antihelei]

With the newest change to crafted items, Mantle of the Forest has become such a powerful piece of gear it is irreplacable until the end of CoD (for a whopping +1% mana cons, 5 mana upgrade and -15 cha, -12 sta downgrade) or for wis casters the coral encrusted spaulders which offer a slightly larger upgrade but still not very significant. as it stands now, the mantle (and many other pieces of crafted loot) are significantly better than a large majority of raid gear, which I feel is extremely out of balance. the fact that any character over level 45 can obtain a piece of loot comparable to the best shoulders dropped by some of the hardest mobs in the game is dissappointed and needs to be fixed.


Just to clarify, I use this item currently and I still feel that its seriously overpowered. Before, when the mana conservation upgrades were more significant and the mana was capped at 130 it was very balanced, but with it only being 1% less and 5 mana less than the CoD shoulders, its really become too powerful.

 

[Wiz]

Are you saying that at level 45 you automatically get the money to buy a mantle of the forest because that's a pretty serious bug!

 

[Thinkmeats]

With the newest change to crafted items, Mantle of the Forest has become such a powerful piece of gear it is irreplacable until the end of CoD (for a whopping +1% mana cons, 5 mana upgrade and -15 cha, -12 sta downgrade) or for wis casters the coral encrusted spaulders which offer a slightly larger upgrade but still not very significant. as it stands now, the mantle (and many other pieces of crafted loot) are significantly better than a large majority of raid gear, which I feel is extremely out of balance. the fact that any character over level 45 can obtain a piece of loot comparable to the best shoulders dropped by some of the hardest mobs in the game is dissappointed and needs to be fixed.

Just to clarify, I use this item currently and I still feel that its seriously overpowered. Before, when the mana conservation upgrades were more significant and the mana was capped at 130 it was very balanced, but with it only being 1% less and 5 mana less than the CoD shoulders, its really become too powerful.

Raiding is not the only way to advance, film at 11.

 

[antihelei]

Are you saying that at level 45 you automatically get the money to buy a mantle of the forest because that's a pretty serious bug!

I know you know I'm not saying that.

Raiding is not the only way to advance, film at 11.

Clearly it is not the only way to advance, but at a certain point, there should be a level in which the advancement of a character cannot continue further without experiencing the raid end game. This level, I think, is much lower on the list than organizing a raid group and bringing it all the way to the Ritualist in Caverns, something, as you know, involves quite a large amount of time and effort. This time and effort is vastly greater than the time and effort it takes to obtain the materials or money to make or purchase a Mantle of the Forest and 2 augs. The gap in between the two is so great that I felt compelled to make this post.

 

[Allielyn]

With the newest change to crafted items, ... the mantle (and many other pieces of crafted loot) are significantly better than a large majority of raid gear, which I feel is extremely out of balance.

I thought this exact same thing when I considered the upgraded Deepmetal + two augs.

 

[antihelei]

I thought this exact same thing when I considered the upgraded Deepmetal + two augs.

Yeah.

Other than some focus effects, a good majority of the crafted imp hide, spider silk, and deepmetal armor with 2 augs is better than gear that drops in DHK, PoA, Misery, and PoT. Essentially what could happen is a player with enough time to sit in Mielech B or Cyc Gorge could easily become better geared than someone who has raided the previously listed zones.

I would be glad to cite some examples if you don't believe me.

 

[Thinkmeats]

Yeah.

Other than some focus effects, a good majority of the crafted imp hide,  spider silk, and deepmetal armor with 2 augs is better than gear that drops in DHK, PoA, Misery, and PoT. Essentially what could happen is a player with enough time to sit in Mielech B or Cyc Gorge could easily become better geared than someone who has raided the previously listed zones.

And I say again: So what?

If hoarding plat was more efficient than raiding, wouldn't you see guildbanks spending more of their coin on gear and less of it on augs? Not everyone is about hardcore raiding 24/7, and saying they can't have nice things because you really really like to raid is foolish. Raiding is still the fastest way to get the most gear, and no amount of "actually not completely awful TS items" will change that.

 

[antihelei]

And I say again: So what?

If hoarding plat was more efficient than raiding, wouldn't you see guildbanks spending more of their coin on gear and less of it on augs? Not everyone is about hardcore raiding 24/7, and saying they can't have nice things because you really really like to raid is foolish. Raiding is still the fastest way to get the most gear, and no amount of "actually not completely awful TS items" will change that.

I'm not saying you can't have nice things because you don't raid, but I certainly don't expect double +30 mana augged shadow silk armor to completely trivialize a vast majority of raid loot for anyone who can pony up 3k to buy a piece.

 

[Haphesto]

I have a question relating to this what wasnt worthy of it's own thread.

What happens with acidic solution and removing augs now? Does the acid remove both augs, the first one, the second one?

 

[Wiz]

Because getting a full suit of shadow silk with double exceptional augs is a trivial matter that does not require time and effort equivalent to raiding.

 

[DumbSnowman]

I'm not nearly at the level where I raid yet (only 30s) but I know as a college student I'm not going to be raiding, like, at all. I like the idea that I can work little by little and get pieces of gear that are as good as raid loot. I think making the game "raid or suck" would kill a lot of casual players.

 

[Brimztone]

I personally am all for casual players being able to get nice stuff, but I don't think that the raid loots should be this close to crafted items. I think crafted items should be good and worth getting, but not if you have raid gear.

 

[antihelei]

Because getting a full suit of shadow silk with double exceptional augs is a trivial matter that does not require time and effort equivalent to raiding.

A full set with full augs would run about 35k. 35k takes about a month to farm.

Getting a raid to ritualist in cod takes (at least for steel) 11 months (guild was started late december/early januaryy)

 

[Wiz]

A full set with full augs would run about 35k. 35k takes about a month to farm.

Getting a raid to ritualist in cod takes (at least for steel) 11 months (guild was started late december/early januaryy)

I can agree with that, and I will certainly evaluate the comparative power of high end tradeskills to raid gear, but I think you're also forgetting the effort invested in raising a tradeskill to that level, and that price is very likely to hike with demand going up.

 

[Jun]

I can agree with that, and I will certainly evaluate the comparative power of high end tradeskills to raid gear, but I think you're also forgetting the effort invested in raising a tradeskill to that level, and that price is very likely to hike with demand going up.

But the people who benefit from the items didnt spend the time investing in skilling up a tradeskill. I think that the highest tailored items should be slightly nerfed, and to counter the nerf, reward the tradeskillers with something like a Nodrop Lore Augment. People will still buy the items even if they are slightly reduced in power, and tradeskillers will still have an incentive to continue to skill up.

 

[Allielyn]

But the people who benefit from the items didnt spend the time investing in skilling up a tradeskill. I think that the highest tailored items should be slightly nerfed, and to counter the nerf, reward the tradeskillers with something like a Nodrop Lore Augment. People will still buy the items even if they are slightly reduced in power, and tradeskillers will still have an incentive to continue to skill up.

The people who benefit are the ones who can sell the items for 5k/piece. So long as the pieces are rare (and therefore valuable) enough, it's not so much of an issue.

 

[Jun]

With the failure rates, costs of components and general cost of skilling up (not to mention the considerable amount of time invested) Id say that Randomguy who farmed a week to buy a Mantle of the Forest benefits a lot more than the person making it.

 

[Jun]

Not to mention, Randomguy could turn around and sell it in a week if he gets an upgrade. Buying an item like Mantle of the Forest is either a substitute for raiding (and way easier to get than naturally progressing through the raiding tiers), or simply an investment until you can replace it.

Either way, its not much of a plat sink considering its resale value, and it trivializes lower tier raid drops.

 

[Thinkmeats]

A full set with full augs would run about 35k. 35k takes about a month to farm.

Getting a raid to ritualist in cod takes (at least for steel) 11 months (guild was started late december/early januaryy)

Those poor raid guilds! Crushed under the heel of Big Pubbie Tradeskiller time and time again.

Except that hasn't happened, isn't going to happen, and also the richest players who can afford a billion pieces of high end TS armor do, for the most part, use raid gear to get their money.

But the people who benefit from the items didnt spend the time investing in skilling up a tradeskill.  I think that the highest tailored items should be slightly nerfed, and to counter the nerf, reward the tradeskillers with something like a Nodrop Lore Augment.  People will still buy the items even if they are slightly reduced in power, and tradeskillers will still have an incentive to continue to skill up.

This is a bad idea. Tradeskilling shouldn't be some quest you grind--it's supposed to be an alternate way of making money. It's done a very good job of that for most tradeskills.

Not to mention, Randomguy could turn around and sell it in a week if he gets an upgrade.  Buying an item like Mantle of the Forest is either a substitute for raiding (and way easier to get than naturally progressing through the raiding tiers), or simply an investment until you can replace it. 

Either way, its not much of a plat sink considering its resale value, and it trivializes lower tier raid drops.

Hence the arguments for making TS items turn nodrop when you get them (say, the TS makes a tradable item with one charge of "summon mantle of the forest", the real nodrop version). I still think that's a good idea, but not because 'omg ts items are too good'. It's mostly to keep them from circulating about until the end of time.

 

[Jun]

I do like the notion of making the items summon a no drop version.

But if that doesnt happen...

Tradeskilling shouldn't be some quest you grind--it's supposed to be an alternate way of making money. It's done a very good job of that for most tradeskills.

Even though tradeskillers can make money from armor etc., they still have to compete with people theyve already sold to, so its not like tradeskilling = guaranteed cash cow.


Also, it isnt just a matter of it being "unfair" to raiding guilds. Why would up and coming raid guilds waste time progressing through WW dragons/DFS/etc when it would take the same amount of time to farm for Imp Hide/Shadow Silk and benefit much more from doing so. You cant argue that one person spending a week farming and buying a Mantle of the Forest should be significantly more worthwhile than a group of people progressing through raid tiers for loot that pales in comparison.

Sure it's great for the casual players, but honestly, the stats on fully augged tradeskill items such as Imp Hide/Shadow Silk and especially Mantle could be reduced with little affect on their play.