Magicians
- Thread starter Yusuke
- Start date
Kedrin
Dalayan Pious Diety
Not sure if it is possible, however what if there was a way to "power up" a quick nuke after so many rains. Say you get a buff that lasts 60 seconds that can stack up to five or so, falls off after combat. Every time you cast a new rain spell the buff would increase in power. The fast nuke would then consume the buffs, the more stacks you had the harder the nuke...
Perhaps it is too complex for what it is worth.
Perhaps it is too complex for what it is worth.
Glamrin
Staff Emeritus
I'd like to see the following fix: add a new archetype tome for all classes that gives a 25 - 50 - 75 - 100 percent chance of saving pet gear when pet dies. Add a new /cm command to remove pets gear for slot x like /cm petremgear all or /cm petremgear 1 for say bp and so on.
Swiftur
Dalayan Elder
Pecannius
Dalayan Elder
Ok, I'm going to try look at this another way. Out of all the T10-11 fights that I've done (which is most of them), let's look at ALL the archaics/r1 spells (should have these spells for this tier) and figure out which classes can't use their archaic/r1 spells. I'm not going to factor in resistant/immune mobs because that gets too technical and goes beyond what I'm trying to prove.
Note: I'm not claiming to be an expert in these tiers but I lead a bunch of raids in these zones. I might be wrong about some of these restrictions, but hopefully the data still speaks for itself.
Note: Technically shaman R1 could be considered restricted for a lot of these fights but when I say "restriction" I mean something stronger, either
1) The spell literally cannot be used (ENC archaic for example)
or
2) The spell causes a large DETRIMENT to the raid force and makes the encounter harder if the spell is used for a majority of the fight.
Note: I forgot about bard r1, which I'm not going to go through but I'm pretty sure bard r1 can't be used for 95% of these fights.
Using spoiler tags because of strat leaks!
Hopefully this data gets the point across. Besides 2 of the strongest, most desired classes in a raid: Bard & Enchanter, Mage is the only class that can't use their archaic/r1 on many of these fights. Bard r1 and enchanter archaic are not primary dps spells either, while the mage archaic/r1 is.
For fights where the mage archaic/r1 can't be used, why not just bring another shaman who can do just as much dps as a non-archaic/r1 mage, as well as heal. Heck, druids even come close to non-archaic r1 mage dps.
http://wiki.shardsofdalaya.com/index.php/Spell:_Relic:_Bladewind vs http://wiki.shardsofdalaya.com/index.php/Spell:_Relic:_Nightfire
I know that all classes have their balances etc but mages in this tier are just bad for a lot of fights with little redeeming value and not being able to use their primary dps spells is sad.
Note: I'm not claiming to be an expert in these tiers but I lead a bunch of raids in these zones. I might be wrong about some of these restrictions, but hopefully the data still speaks for itself.
Note: Technically shaman R1 could be considered restricted for a lot of these fights but when I say "restriction" I mean something stronger, either
1) The spell literally cannot be used (ENC archaic for example)
or
2) The spell causes a large DETRIMENT to the raid force and makes the encounter harder if the spell is used for a majority of the fight.
Note: I forgot about bard r1, which I'm not going to go through but I'm pretty sure bard r1 can't be used for 95% of these fights.
Using spoiler tags because of strat leaks!
Dawnlord's Tomb
Essence of the Mother
Eltrac the Skycaller
- Archaic restrictions: MAG (for some the whole fight)
- Runic restrictions: MAG (for some the whole fight)
- Archaic restrictions: ENC
- Runic restrictions: n/a
- Archaic restrictions: ENC
- Runic restrictions: n/a
- Archaic restrictions: MAG
- Runic restrictions: MAG
Essence of the Mother
- Archaic restrictions: ENC
- Runic restrictions: n/a
- Archaic restrictions: n/a
- Runic restrictions: n/a
- Archaic restrictions: ENC, MAG
- Runic restrictions: MAG
- Archaic restrictions: MAG
- Runic restrictions: MAG
Eltrac the Skycaller
- Archaic restrictions: ENC
- Runic restrictions: n/a
- Archaic restrictions: ENC
- Runic restrictions: n/a
- Archaic restrictions: n/a
- Runic restrictions: n/a
- Archaic restrictions: MAG
- Runic restrictions: MAG
- Archaic restrictions: ENC
- Runic restrictions: n/a
- Archaic restrictions: MAG (for some the whole fight)
- Runic restrictions: MAG (for some the whole fight)
- Archaic restrictions: ENC
- Runic restrictions: n/a
- Archaic restrictions: n/a
- Runic restrictions: n/a
- Archaic restrictions: n/a
- Runic restrictions: n/a
- Archaic restrictions: MAG
- Runic restrictions: MAG
- Archaic restrictions: n/a
- Runic restrictions: n/a
- Archaic restrictions: MAG
- Runic restrictions: MAG
- Archaic restrictions: n/a
- Runic restrictions: n/a
- Archaic restrictions: ENC
- Runic restrictions: n/a
- Archaic restrictions: ENC
- Runic restrictions: n/a
- Archaic restrictions: MAG
- Runic restrictions: MAG
- Archaic restrictions: ENC
- Runic restrictions: n/a
- Archaic restrictions: ENC
- Runic restrictions: n/a
- Archaic restrictions: MAG
- Runic restrictions: MAG
- Archaic restrictions: MAG
- Runic restrictions: MAG
- Archaic restrictions: MAG, ENC
- Runic restrictions: MAG
- Archaic restrictions: ENC
- Runic restrictions: n/a
- Archaic restrictions: ENC
- Runic restrictions: n/a
- Archaic restrictions: n/a
- Runic restrictions: n/a
- Archaic restrictions: n/a
- Runic restrictions: n/a
- Archaic restrictions: MAG
- Runic restrictions: MAG
Hopefully this data gets the point across. Besides 2 of the strongest, most desired classes in a raid: Bard & Enchanter, Mage is the only class that can't use their archaic/r1 on many of these fights. Bard r1 and enchanter archaic are not primary dps spells either, while the mage archaic/r1 is.
For fights where the mage archaic/r1 can't be used, why not just bring another shaman who can do just as much dps as a non-archaic/r1 mage, as well as heal. Heck, druids even come close to non-archaic r1 mage dps.
http://wiki.shardsofdalaya.com/index.php/Spell:_Relic:_Bladewind vs http://wiki.shardsofdalaya.com/index.php/Spell:_Relic:_Nightfire
I know that all classes have their balances etc but mages in this tier are just bad for a lot of fights with little redeeming value and not being able to use their primary dps spells is sad.
I am not an expert at this game nor do I claim to have all the relevant knowledge but how many mage un-friendly encounters are there (trash and bosses) as opposed to encounters for some of the
other dps classes: Wizards, necros, rangers, rogues, bards, monks, (enchanters:league of their own). The only thing separating us from them is that their primary dps is dished out at single targets.
Our rains, which are supposed to be efficient at killing 2 targets at a time and, in my opinion, should be a bonus for having mages in raids and 6-mans turns out to be a hindrance a lot of the times.
Before I had gotten my Relic and Archaic it seemed like you were supposed to send pet in for dps and use single target nukes and rains on 2+ pulls. However, as a mage you find out quickly enough
that you have to rain no matter the number of mobs to be able to compare with other dps classes.
Maybe I should list some things.
Re-iterating:
2+ mobs - cast rains (to be optimum dps)
1 mob - still cast rains (to be optimum dps)
Boss with trash that needs mezzing - Do not rain
Multiple trash that need mezzing - Do not rain
Weak trash that can't be aoe'd - Do not rain
Fight mechanics where aoeing will kill/wipe raid - Do not rain
Mob keeps moving around - Cannot rain
You need to keep moving - Cannot rain effectively (cuz slow)
Mob has to be damaged in close range - Do not rain/Cannot rain
Mage Runic 1 - Pretty much worthless on boss fights due to AEs, how many boss fights AE? Take a guess... (Cannot use during mezzing)
Mage Swarm AA - Even worse than mage runic 1, 22 minute cooldown just to have swarm die in mere seconds when they only last for 30secs
Lets be honest with our selves here. Am I looking for a fix that will solve all of the above problems? NO. Please don't use that as an excuse to not do anything because you think it will make mages OP.
Are the above mentioned problems rare, infrequent, or common place with 1 or more of them being a menace to mages? Common Place.
Besides mod rods, which you can get before a major fight you are attempting to learn, are mages the winning formula in the T10/11 range? Probably not. (I say T10/11 because that is what this mage is currently doing, other tier mages chime in please)
After a death or when pet dies our class has to do the most work to get ready again and to med up after that. Just small annoyances with this class that keep coming up during a play session.
Minor Point: Call of the Hero - A redeeming quality for mages is blocked in zones that it can be useful in to swap players though it gets restricted for exploitable reasons. eh
Thoughts: Any of the following as solutions/modifications, etc.
When single target, rains do a bit more dps than if there are two present and being hit.
Allow mages to determine when they want rains hitting one target or multiple targets.
Keep rains as they are, rains do not break mez (in my dreams maybe)
AA swarm pets, runic 1 swarm, and class pet upon death give mages short burst dps (cuz lol, the swarms die a lot and that would be consistency, eh)
I had written this post up a few days ago but hadn't had time to post it. It looks like Pecannius did some work! I would like to thank Pecannius for the list he made but I want to add that it is worse than the list indicates. For some of the fights you have to be in close range, for others the adds need to be killed faster than our nukes allow, and for some you need to keep moving before spell lands.
The class isn't broken by any means but the implemented content is ruining the otherwise fun MAGE class. We chose the class yes, but not the content.
other dps classes: Wizards, necros, rangers, rogues, bards, monks, (enchanters:league of their own). The only thing separating us from them is that their primary dps is dished out at single targets.
Our rains, which are supposed to be efficient at killing 2 targets at a time and, in my opinion, should be a bonus for having mages in raids and 6-mans turns out to be a hindrance a lot of the times.
Before I had gotten my Relic and Archaic it seemed like you were supposed to send pet in for dps and use single target nukes and rains on 2+ pulls. However, as a mage you find out quickly enough
that you have to rain no matter the number of mobs to be able to compare with other dps classes.
Maybe I should list some things.
Re-iterating:
2+ mobs - cast rains (to be optimum dps)
1 mob - still cast rains (to be optimum dps)
Boss with trash that needs mezzing - Do not rain
Multiple trash that need mezzing - Do not rain
Weak trash that can't be aoe'd - Do not rain
Fight mechanics where aoeing will kill/wipe raid - Do not rain
Mob keeps moving around - Cannot rain
You need to keep moving - Cannot rain effectively (cuz slow)
Mob has to be damaged in close range - Do not rain/Cannot rain
Mage Runic 1 - Pretty much worthless on boss fights due to AEs, how many boss fights AE? Take a guess... (Cannot use during mezzing)
Mage Swarm AA - Even worse than mage runic 1, 22 minute cooldown just to have swarm die in mere seconds when they only last for 30secs
Lets be honest with our selves here. Am I looking for a fix that will solve all of the above problems? NO. Please don't use that as an excuse to not do anything because you think it will make mages OP.
Are the above mentioned problems rare, infrequent, or common place with 1 or more of them being a menace to mages? Common Place.
Besides mod rods, which you can get before a major fight you are attempting to learn, are mages the winning formula in the T10/11 range? Probably not. (I say T10/11 because that is what this mage is currently doing, other tier mages chime in please)
After a death or when pet dies our class has to do the most work to get ready again and to med up after that. Just small annoyances with this class that keep coming up during a play session.
Minor Point: Call of the Hero - A redeeming quality for mages is blocked in zones that it can be useful in to swap players though it gets restricted for exploitable reasons. eh
Thoughts: Any of the following as solutions/modifications, etc.
When single target, rains do a bit more dps than if there are two present and being hit.
Allow mages to determine when they want rains hitting one target or multiple targets.
Keep rains as they are, rains do not break mez (in my dreams maybe)
AA swarm pets, runic 1 swarm, and class pet upon death give mages short burst dps (cuz lol, the swarms die a lot and that would be consistency, eh)
I had written this post up a few days ago but hadn't had time to post it. It looks like Pecannius did some work! I would like to thank Pecannius for the list he made but I want to add that it is worse than the list indicates. For some of the fights you have to be in close range, for others the adds need to be killed faster than our nukes allow, and for some you need to keep moving before spell lands.
The class isn't broken by any means but the implemented content is ruining the otherwise fun MAGE class. We chose the class yes, but not the content.
donfolstar3
Dalayan Master
I love it. Scale the burst to pet type/lvl/something so the swarm/monsters is a nice consistent bonus up to "now I'm a wizard lite" for a few ticks with the main pet.
Targeted AoEs, on account of being Targeted, not hit the player if there are enough targets in range to be Targeted by the Targeted AoE would also be nice. It exists for one spell, so why not all of them? The caster still runs the risk of targets dying and hitting themselves, they just aren't prevented from meleeing or sadface in close quarter situations.
I take it you know nothing of wizard runic 1 because while it is useable on these fights they are not long enough for it to actually be worth using in any capacity.
