Magician balancing suggestions

[Rurho]

Mages are a very useful fun class to play, and they bring alot of utility with them. Between mod rods, searfires, and summoned peridots, they are an essential class to have on raids. Many will argue that a mage's DPS is too low, and they need a boost. This is just not true. I personally played a mage for over a year. In that time, I got over 400 aas, and feel dps is not the issue. The real problems lie with the mage pet, and the archaic spell.

Pets add 80-100+dps to a mages total dps. This is great, if you can keep that pet up. Mage pet heals as they stand are way too long of a recast and only heal a fraction of the pet's health. The lvl 64 spell Til's Elemental Recomposition heals for a wopping 1215. This spell costs 285 mana and is on a 20 second recast. Considering the Relic pet can have upwards of 9000hps buffed, the spell only heals a fraction of the pets health. For a class that gets no healing aas and not many options for healing inc gear this is just not acceptable. The mend pet AA is great, but because its on a 8 minute recast the heals in between are a joke. I ask that the pet heal recast be cut in half, 10 seconds is long enough to wait for a heal.

Pets as I said, are a large part of a mage's overall DPS. The main reason a pet dies on a raid is to AEs. What I would like to see is a an AA, or better yet a Tome that would let the mage share his resists with his pet. This would help alot with keeping the pet up. If a tome would be considered, it would be cool to see that every 25% of the tome would share 25% of the resists. I could not see a tome like this being more then 50 aas, but that I will leave to the staff.

Mage archaic is the last thing I want to address. In its current form, it is really out of place and rarley used. Archaic sun storm is a DD, costs 375 mana and has a 5.75 recast time and does a base dmg of 1745. Mages are a raining class. There is no reason for an archaic DD. Nercos get a DoT, Wizards get a DD, that makes sense because its inline with what there class is defined by. Sirocco is a lvl 55 fire based rain, and it is the last fire rain a mage gets. This spell is never used as the relic rain, and malestrom of electricity are better dps to mana ratio. Having two of our main spells, Relic: Storm of the Elements and Maelstrom of Electricity have magic-based resist mods, it doesn't give us the flexibility we need in a magic resistant situation. However, with an Archaic fire rain, we can cast Sirocco and Archaic without a massive hindrance to our DPS.

As I previously stated, mages are a fun and useful class. But there are a couple issues that have needed attention for some time. With this post I hope to see these issues adressed, and hope other mages can add ideas to the things I have brought up.

 

[yale]

I agree very much with Rurho. There is no problem with Mage DPS, but...........

The pet is a very significant part of the DPS, & in those encounters where the pet cannot be efficiently used (for fear of it's life!), the overall DPS suffers bigtime. The Barrier Ward AA is useful, and was a step in the right direction - but the recast is far too long, realistically it can be used once every named, or every other named (& it doesn't always last the entire duration of each of these fights -5mins duration).

Mages need some form of passive ability, that will help to keep the pet alive (there are not many encounters, or even trash in the end-game that doesn't do some form of AE damage). I like the idea of the shared resists, if this could be plausible? And the heal definitely needs a look at - the recast is twice as long as the Beastlord's pet-heal, and they also get a no-recast heal (Chloroblast) that they can use between fights to top up the pet's HP. Beastlords also get a bigger heal, Healing AAs (+heals & crits) and a larger variety of Healing Increment focus items.

The Archaic is, as Rurho says, fairly useless. Archaics should, I presume, be unbeatable in the utility they provide for their class. Mages are the raining class, and making this into a rain would be awesome!! It doesn't even need to be much different than Relic: Storm of the Elements...but a similar Fire-based rain would be a perfect fit for the Archaic.

 

[Ryei]

I cant really say much about the archaic, since i dont have it... so, ill just say 1 thing, archaic should be a lot better dps then normal nukes or relics, so id say if it gets changed to a rain spell, make it worth it please. we dont need another junky spell.

About the pet healing, yeah i agree 101%!!! 20 secs re use on our healing, make our pet dies a lot, not just in raids, but it gets a lot harder to solo mobs that necros/wizards and other classes can solo a lot easyer, since they can just snare it, or root(mage root sux) and burn it... Mages rely on pet hp to keep alive, and that means, we gotta keep it alive, and dps wisely, without draggin agro... So please, Reduce the casting time on pet heal!

Another thing id like to know/ask to be added, not sure if there is already an item like that, but id love to see some pet classes item with Healing Increment on it, like 6-7 would be nice... As some of you guys know i love soloing, so having a Healing Increment item + Thaz gloves for + healing, would be sweet. Just an idea anyways.

Good luck for all of us in these changes, hopefully this thread dont end as all the others ended...

 

[Thinkmeats]

Sharing resists directly with the pet is probably a little much, but I definitely agree that something ought to be done about the fragility of pets in the face of higher-end AEs.

As for the archaic suggestion, I'm in total agreement. It makes sense thematically, it makes sense balance-wise, and it means that the magician archy is the best of its kind rather than just being a shitty version of the wizard arch.

 

[Andorraa]

I will agree with Rurho here, because the fact of the matter is, I don't even run a pet when I play Rurho the character. I believe that you should sacrifice a bit of casting DPS to keep your pet alive, who is doing 100 or so melee dps. If I throw out a ~1200 heal to a pet which is getting AE'd for 2.5 every 15 seconds, the pet will be dead rather quickly.

The fact that Relic: Spirit of Kaezul is a 1400 lifetap every tick, it makes it a lot easier for a necromancer to keep their pet up through AE's. Mages get a non-relic pet heal that refreshes every 20 seconds. My suggestion would be to give mages a relic pet heal that would replace Til's Elemental Ward that would still run on the 20 second casting time, but heal for ~4K. Mage pets have 9,000+ HP, I don't see how keeping them healed up is a balancing issue, especially since the pet and the heal would be relics.

I also agree with rurho in regards to the Archaic spell. The fact that we get a DD when mages are a raining class doesn't make sense to me. Shamans are master slowers (The Ancestral Mask of the Tal'Yan is shaman only, and has a plus to slows) and their archaic is a slow. Druids can debuff mobs quite a bit, so it makes sense that their archaic is a BIG debuff. Enchanters are masters of crowd control, so it makes sense that they have a monster mez for their archaic. Wizards' main form of damage is Direct Damage, so it makes sense that their archaic is a DD spell. Necromancers get a Damage over Time spell for their archaic, because their main form of damage is Damage over time spells.

But mages are an oddball here, their main damage involves consistant raining DPS. We have no way to ditch aggro, which is why rains are so attractive. They're low aggro and good damage at the same time. The Archaic spell should be situational, just as every archaic is right now. Just like rurho said, with fire immune/resistant mobs Relic: Storm of the Elements and Maelstrom of electricity should be cast without a problem. On High magic resistant mobs, Sirocco and Archaic rain could be cast without a problem. Or combinations of the two could be used.

Making these changes to the magician class I think would make them perfectly balanced and a more attractive class to play overall.

 

[Manluas]

The fact that Relic: Spirit of Kaezul is a 1400 lifetap every tick, it makes it a lot easier for a necromancer to keep their pet up through AE's.

Spirit of Kaezul ticks for 542dmg noncrit here, 1400 is a bit high I'd say and would be really overpowered.


That aside I only have very little experience with mages but from that I concur with everything that has been said. From my grouping experiences (no parses, only felt) mage DPS is quite gravy compared to a necro (who isn't running a full DoT-cycle). What really strikes me is that I am usually better of altering rains then using Archaic - I really think something should be done here (see previous suggestions).

Can't say anything about the pet and that's just 2cp from another pet class.

 

[Andorraa]

Spirit of Kaezul ticks for 542dmg noncrit here, 1400 is a bit high I'd say and would be really overpowered.

My bad, I forgot it crit for that much and wasn't ticking for that much. Sorry.

 

[volvov2]

The Archaic definitely needs an upgrade, and Rurho's suggestion makes perfect sense.

Pet healing is also tricky but I do believe that pets die way to easy to AEs currently, the suggestions Rurho mentioned are probably the best solutions that anyone could think of, short of increasing pet heal amount or making it so you can actually heal your pet for more than 20 seconds at a time.

 

[Brimztone]

When Rurho first told me he was making this post we talked about the other archaics and their improvements over the Relics. With a 15% increase over the relic, an Archaic fire rain that did 989 base would follow suit. As for the validity of that number and the mana cost and casting time, I'll leave that up to the staff.

A lower(or removal) of the casting time, or an increase of the amount healed like Draxx said would be amazingly awesome. All the suggestions made in this thread would be great and help Mages a lot.

 

[Waldoff]

I definitely agree with the archaic change.

The hard part balancing wise is getting pets so they dont die in a raid situation but arent stupid good when the mage is soloing. Pet heals are not the solution here but I think resists might be. What about something along the lines of a pet adding the magicians resist whenever the magician is in a specific elemental form?

IE- While mage is in air form the pet adds their MR to its own or something similiar.

I agree with Thinkmeats that the pet sharing all resists at once is a bit crazy but being able to focus on one resist at a time wouldn't be too overpowered and the spells for the elemental forms are already in place. Acting on resists rather than heals also keeps the pets where they should be when it comes to special melee skills and hard resistable/poison DR AEs in the raid game - things where as a mage pet they should still be very fragile.

Obligatory Caveat- Not official staff opinion.

 

[Andorraa]

I definitely agree with the archaic change.

The hard part balancing wise is getting pets so they dont die in a raid situation but arent stupid good when the mage is soloing. Pet heals are not the solution here but I think resists might be. What about something along the lines of a pet adding the magicians resist whenever the magician is in a specific elemental form?

IE- While mage is in air form the pet adds their MR to its own or something similiar.

I agree with Thinkmeats that the pet sharing all resists at once is a bit crazy but being able to focus on one resist at a time wouldn't be too overpowered and the spells for the elemental forms are already in place. Acting on resists rather than heals also keeps the pets where they should be when it comes to special melee skills and hard resistable/poison DR AEs in the raid game - things where as a mage pet they should still be very fragile.

Obligatory Caveat- Not official staff opinion.

I like your idea woldaff, however, with the fact that every mage elemental form takes 18 AAs to complete, with a total of 72 AAs total (minimum 12 AAs to get one rank in each of them), the AAs might have to be changed. Unless I don't understand your idea clearly, you'd be hard pressed to find a mage that's willing to pump those AAs into these ranks unless they have nothing else to buy.

I'm glad to see a lot of support for the archaic change as well.

 

[Manluas]

I like your idea woldaff, however, with the fact that every mage elemental form takes 18 AAs to complete, with a total of 72 AAs total (minimum 12 AAs to get one rank in each of them), the AAs might have to be changed. Unless I don't understand your idea clearly, you'd be hard pressed to find a mage that's willing to pump those AAs into these ranks unless they have nothing else to buy.

Another problem I see is that some elemental forms are currently restricted unless that changed recently (Levitate and the like). Just pointing that out, I might very well be mistaken here.

 

[Brimztone]

I agree with Thinkmeats that the pet sharing all resists at once is a bit crazy but being able to focus on one resist at a time wouldn't be too overpowered and the spells for the elemental forms are already in place.

You were the one who suggested it to me one night. :hmph:

But yeah, maybe it a is a bit too crazy. Making it correspond to the form you're in would be cool, but as Luas said it would need to take into account the limitations of some forms like Air.

 

[Thinkmeats]

A while back, I'd hit on the idea of altering Companion Health to also provide +resists, so that's another option.

 

[Ryei]

Even pets gettin more resists, i still think our heal should be lowered the re use timer... 20 secs is just way too much, either reduce the re use timer, or make it heal for more points of dmg. You guys gotta remember that mages dont have a plan B for pet Death, our root sux, on a litle bit harder mobs like elds undeads, or even the castle guards, our root lasts less then 5-10 secs.(if they dont resist it).
Once again brings the fact that our pet gotta protect us, and we gotta burn mobs/heal him. and at the rate our heal is, if your AA heal is not up, well we screwd.

I dont see why would heals overpower mage soloing, serious...

 

[Rurho]

Another problem I see is that some elemental forms are currently restricted unless that changed recently (Levitate and the like). Just pointing that out, I might very well be mistaken here.

This is correct. In zones where levitate is restricted so is the air form. I like the idea of the pet sharing the resists of the form used. But as stated, levitate would have to be removed from the air form or you would be restricted from using it in some zones. Personally I would rather see these AAs changed to pet buffs, but I will get to that later. Below are the current forms and the abilities gained at the 3rd(final) rank. These forms cost a total of 18 AAS.

Fire form - Increase DS by 30, increase mana by 4 per tick, increase int by 20, increase attack by 100

Earth form - increase mana by 4 per tick, increase Sta by 20, increase hitpoints by 200 (does not stack with combine)

Water form - Enduring breath, increase mana by 4 per tick, increase hitpoints by 15 per tick

Air form - Levitate, increase mana by 4 per tick, See invis, increase all resists by 25(levitate restricted in some zones)

Maybe these AAs could be changed to pet buffs, rather then self buffs. Each form would share its type of resists between the pet and the mage. And give the pet a special ability depending on the form used. As it stands Mages do not use any of the other pets after relic pet is obtained. What if the relic pet could be stripped of his abilities. Instead of a big DS, or the proc, spells like druid DS and Rbow could replace them. Then each form could add something different that could stack with these things. Below are examples of how the pet forms could affect the pet different ways.

Fire form - Shares fire resists with mage, increase DS by 15(stacks with druid or mage DS), increase attack by 100

Earth form - Shares Disease and Poison resists with mage, Increase AC by 250, increase HP by 250 procs a root like earth pet.

Water form - Shares cold resists with mage, procs a slow(not sure on %) increase HP by 25 per tick

Air form - Shares magic resists with mage, adds a stun/dmg proc(stacks with Relic blades of war), increase pet haste by 9%

These are just examples of what the AAs could do, If they were changed to a pet buff instead of self. Also the abilities gained on top of resists would only apply to the relic pet. the lower end pets would only get the resist buff. Some mages may disagree and really like these AAs in their current form. I find them almost useless, and would much rather see the pets benefit from them.

As for the pet heal, I would still like to see the recast cut in half. The current 20 second recast is just way to long.

 

[Ryei]

Awardis once told me, that the FT4 from elemental form lvl 3 AAs, were OVER FT, like didnt add to the cap of the FT by buffs, is that correct? cuz if not, well Elemental forms are even more worthless the way they are atm.

 

[vistachiri]

Awardis once told me, that the FT4 from elemental form lvl 3 AAs, were OVER FT, like didnt add to the cap of the FT by buffs, is that correct? cuz if not, well Elemental forms are even more worthless the way they are atm.

That is correct

Also I believe I would be remiss if I did not point out some minor problem inherent in changing the current archaic. Lack of a decent fire dd at the high end. As a possible viable solution here, without increasing much the overall dps of the class.

Storm of steel=> change this, or bladewind to fire based. Bladewind would make slightly more sense to change if we go by a fire magic fire magic kind of pattern. Dps of this spell upgraded to bladewind's in any case I would suggest.
Relic: Bladewind => See above notes. Dps of this spell changed to archaic's current.
Maelstrom of electricity => changed to fire based (would leave 2 magic rains still present as well in the spell lineup)
Relic: Storm of the elements => same, best spell we have, bar none.
Archaic: New fire rain.

This way we keep what variety we have, and add some, without crippling other dps, and also mostly without changing the dps of the class overmuch. As for parses etc, using 2 rains is higher dps than using any of our dd's in rapid succession. So I do not think this would make us too powerful in terms of pre-archaic, or even pre-relic in terms of the proposed changes with storm of steel.

The other minor problem I noticed is with the weather changes. I had noticed last time I played fire was being affected indoors, with no available options to modify the weather per druid spells, as those do not work indoors. The culprit in this case was HHK. I'm not certain if that happens everywhere inside. Or even fixable. But it is food for thought so to speak.

Also in terms of heal and soloing too well? Rangers, druids, would still be far more effective soloers. Decreasing to 10 seconds wouldn't increase our soloing ability into the realms of ridiculousness. Currently I think my gloves are the only set present on the server. 30% increase in the healing of the 64 heal. Takes 2 minutes give or take 20 seconds depending on time of day, to heal the pet from say 5-10%. Thank the heavens for mend, or soloing as a mage would more often take the form of soloing like a wizard.

In terms of resists I really like the idea of putting pet resists in a tome. Only area off the top of my head which would be a pain in terms of lower raid zones is dhk for ae's. As high end zones are the primary culprits of ae= deadpet (ValorB for example, where elemental barrier used frequently + barrier ward come up far short because of frequently ae'ing trash).

 

[Allielyn]

. . . The real problems lie with the mage pet, and the archaic spell.

. . . Mage pet heals as they stand are way too long of a recast and only heal a fraction of the pet's health. The lvl 64 spell Til's Elemental Recomposition heals for a whopping 1215. This spell costs 285 mana and is on a 20 second recast. Considering the Relic pet can have upwards of 9000hps buffed, the spell only heals a fraction of the pets health. For a class that gets no healing aas and not many options for healing inc gear this is just not acceptable. The mend pet AA is great, but because its on a 8 minute recast the heals in between are a joke. I ask that the pet heal recast be cut in half, 10 seconds is long enough to wait for a heal. . .

. . . The main reason a pet dies on a raid is to AEs. What I would like to see is a an AA, or better yet a Tome that would let the mage share his resists with his pet. This would help alot with keeping the pet up.

I agree 100%. Whether you cut the recast time, add another relic mage heal spell (or substitute one), or really beef the way they get resists, they need something. In my opinion, any one of those or even a combination of them would be appropriate.

The AA changes outlined by Rurho also sounded like GREAT changes, it would make every single one of those massive AA sets a lot more useful and also emphasize Mages' specialties. My only concern is I don't know how possible it is to make the pet resists be based on the caster.

Mage archaic is the last thing I want to address. Mages are a raining class. There is no reason for an archaic DD. Sirocco is a lvl 55 fire based rain, and it is the last fire rain a mage gets. This spell is never used as the relic rain, and malestrom of electricity are better dps to mana ratio. Having two of our main spells, Relic: Storm of the Elements and Maelstrom of Electricity have magic-based resist mods, it doesn't give us the flexibility we need in a magic resistant situation. However, with an Archaic fire rain, we can cast Sirocco and Archaic without a massive hindrance to our DPS.

Agreed 100%. Rurho makes two great points here, I don't think I could put it better myself.

 

[Rurho]

That is correct

Lets look at this extra 4ft then. What does it really do, I would much rather have a pet that can DPS for an entire fight then 4ft over cap. The ability to have 100 dps for a long fight is way better then getting maybe 2 more rains off at the end of a fight because you have an extra 4ft.